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NY bike path mayhem



 
 
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  #51  
Old November 6th 17, 01:39 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,870
Default NY bike path mayhem

On Sunday, November 5, 2017 at 4:05:42 PM UTC-8, Ralph Barone wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Sunday, November 5, 2017 at 12:13:08 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/5/2017 10:45 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, November 5, 2017 at 8:06:40 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/4/2017 4:48 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per AMuzi:
The fact that it was not a mortal wound is
accidental. And incidental, actually, as he did stop the
threat to human life which is the standard here.

If that is the case, it's disappointing.

OTOH, at least he didn't empty his magazine into the guy.

Ever since the Boston Marathon debacle, I've had a weed up my butt about
cops blowing guys like that away before they can be properly
"Debriefed".


WTF? I suspect you 'misremembered' that.

Tamerlan Trarnayev died of blunt trauma, run over by his
own idiot brother while in a gunfight with police (following
multiple murders and maimings by explosive and the stealth
murder of a police officer in his squad car).

p.s. I'll bet you real money that said idiot brother,
Dzhokhar, sentenced to death, will die of something else
after a lengthy stay on the taxpayer's dime.

Federal tax payers for the supermax in Colorado. Confinement in a state
prison might have expedited the sentence -- not that I'm in favor of
shower-room justice, not much.

He's entitled to his appeals, if he takes any. Then we have to agonize
about getting the right lethal drugs. What amazes me is that so many
things are fatal, yet we can't kill people right. Secobarbital and
pentobarbital seem to do the trick for the death with dignity folks
here in Oregon. We chloroformed our sick and dying pets when I was a
kid, and that seemed to work fine. What's with all the failed cocktails?

-- Jay Beattie.


Every state and the Feds spend some amount of effort, time
and money to burn seized Heroin and related contraband. They
sorta make a half hearted effort to explain that these
things are dangerous. In fact a few hundred USAians per day
discover the fatal dosage for their own body weight
empirically. Yet States with a putative death penalty bemoan
'lack' of lethal drugs.
http://time.com/29345/oklahoma-lethal-injection-drugs/

There's a ridiculous mental block about connecting those dots.

Meanwhile, some condemned prisoners dislike needles:
http://www.wcpo.com/news/state/state...on-alternative

and as you implied some crimes get addressed differently
http://www.nytimes.com/1994/11/29/us...-prison.html71


It's been pointed out by others that the most humane version of the death
penalty might be a single bullet to the brain stem from behind. As far as we
know, it's instantaneous, probably much faster than the guillotine. I don't
know why that's not considered the default method.

- Frank Krygowski


I think one issue with that approach is that it's not necessarily very
humane to the guy pulling the trigger (although I suspect there would be
somebody willing to do that job for the right amount of money). I guess
that's one field where a bit of automation might be helpful.


I'm sure Temple Grandin could figure something out.

-- Jay Beattie.
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  #52  
Old November 6th 17, 01:58 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default NY bike path mayhem

On 11/5/2017 6:05 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Sunday, November 5, 2017 at 12:13:08 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/5/2017 10:45 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, November 5, 2017 at 8:06:40 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/4/2017 4:48 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per AMuzi:
The fact that it was not a mortal wound is
accidental. And incidental, actually, as he did stop the
threat to human life which is the standard here.

If that is the case, it's disappointing.

OTOH, at least he didn't empty his magazine into the guy.

Ever since the Boston Marathon debacle, I've had a weed up my butt about
cops blowing guys like that away before they can be properly
"Debriefed".


WTF? I suspect you 'misremembered' that.

Tamerlan Trarnayev died of blunt trauma, run over by his
own idiot brother while in a gunfight with police (following
multiple murders and maimings by explosive and the stealth
murder of a police officer in his squad car).

p.s. I'll bet you real money that said idiot brother,
Dzhokhar, sentenced to death, will die of something else
after a lengthy stay on the taxpayer's dime.

Federal tax payers for the supermax in Colorado. Confinement in a state
prison might have expedited the sentence -- not that I'm in favor of
shower-room justice, not much.

He's entitled to his appeals, if he takes any. Then we have to agonize
about getting the right lethal drugs. What amazes me is that so many
things are fatal, yet we can't kill people right. Secobarbital and
pentobarbital seem to do the trick for the death with dignity folks
here in Oregon. We chloroformed our sick and dying pets when I was a
kid, and that seemed to work fine. What's with all the failed cocktails?

-- Jay Beattie.


Every state and the Feds spend some amount of effort, time
and money to burn seized Heroin and related contraband. They
sorta make a half hearted effort to explain that these
things are dangerous. In fact a few hundred USAians per day
discover the fatal dosage for their own body weight
empirically. Yet States with a putative death penalty bemoan
'lack' of lethal drugs.
http://time.com/29345/oklahoma-lethal-injection-drugs/

There's a ridiculous mental block about connecting those dots.

Meanwhile, some condemned prisoners dislike needles:
http://www.wcpo.com/news/state/state...on-alternative

and as you implied some crimes get addressed differently
http://www.nytimes.com/1994/11/29/us...-prison.html71


It's been pointed out by others that the most humane version of the death
penalty might be a single bullet to the brain stem from behind. As far as we
know, it's instantaneous, probably much faster than the guillotine. I don't
know why that's not considered the default method.

- Frank Krygowski


I think one issue with that approach is that it's not necessarily very
humane to the guy pulling the trigger (although I suspect there would be
somebody willing to do that job for the right amount of money). I guess
that's one field where a bit of automation might be helpful.


Hence the traditional firing squad with one blank cartridge
in the squad. Mr Barone hints at the larger effect of the
simpler method:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/nkvd.jpg

You don't want people to get inured to execution such that
it seems ordinary.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #53  
Old November 6th 17, 02:18 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default NY bike path mayhem

On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 08:45:54 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote:

On Sunday, November 5, 2017 at 8:06:40 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/4/2017 4:48 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per AMuzi:
The fact that it was not a mortal wound is
accidental. And incidental, actually, as he did stop the
threat to human life which is the standard here.

If that is the case, it's disappointing.

OTOH, at least he didn't empty his magazine into the guy.

Ever since the Boston Marathon debacle, I've had a weed up my butt about
cops blowing guys like that away before they can be properly
"Debriefed".


WTF? I suspect you 'misremembered' that.

Tamerlan Trarnayev died of blunt trauma, run over by his
own idiot brother while in a gunfight with police (following
multiple murders and maimings by explosive and the stealth
murder of a police officer in his squad car).

p.s. I'll bet you real money that said idiot brother,
Dzhokhar, sentenced to death, will die of something else
after a lengthy stay on the taxpayer's dime.


Federal tax payers for the supermax in Colorado. Confinement in a state prison might have expedited the sentence -- not that I'm in favor of shower-room justice, not much.

He's entitled to his appeals, if he takes any. Then we have to agonize about getting the right lethal drugs. What amazes me is that so many things are fatal, yet we can't kill people right. Secobarbital and pentobarbital seem to do the trick for the death with dignity folks here in Oregon. We chloroformed our sick and dying pets when I was a kid, and that seemed to work fine. What's with all the failed cocktails?

-- Jay Beattie.


I suggest a "vacuum chamber".

Stick them in the chamber and start pumping out the air. Having been
through the so called "Altitude Chamber" while in the A.F. I can
testify that there are no symptoms and that you breath naturally and
feel perfectly normal.
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #54  
Old November 6th 17, 02:24 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default NY bike path mayhem

On 11/5/2017 7:58 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/5/2017 6:05 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:

It's been pointed out by others that the most humane version of the
death
penalty might be a single bullet to the brain stem from behind. As
far as we
know, it's instantaneous, probably much faster than the guillotine. I
don't
know why that's not considered the default method.

- Frank Krygowski


I think one issue with that approach is that it's not necessarily very
humane to the guy pulling the trigger (although I suspect there would be
somebody willing to do that job for the right amount of money). I guess
that's one field where a bit of automation might be helpful.


Hence the traditional firing squad with one blank cartridge in the
squad. Mr Barone hints at the larger effect of the simpler method:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/nkvd.jpg

You don't want people to get inured to execution such that it seems
ordinary.


One of my friends and colleagues was of the Bahá'Ã* faith. He fled to
this country to avoid persecution by Iranian muslims.

He once gave me his account of the execution, by firing squad, of the
Báb, the founder of the faith. He was placed against a wall. Hundreds of
men in the firing squad pointed their rifles and, at the command, pulled
their triggers. My friend says when the smoke cleared, the Báb was
unhurt. According to my friend, it was no miracle. It was simply that of
the hundreds with rifles, none wanted to be responsible for killing such
an obviously holy man.

The official Bahá'Ã* versions are different, shading a bit more toward
the miraculous. In any case, a second attempt did kill the Báb.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #55  
Old November 6th 17, 02:40 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default NY bike path mayhem

On Mon, 6 Nov 2017 00:05:36 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Sunday, November 5, 2017 at 12:13:08 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/5/2017 10:45 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, November 5, 2017 at 8:06:40 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/4/2017 4:48 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per AMuzi:
The fact that it was not a mortal wound is
accidental. And incidental, actually, as he did stop the
threat to human life which is the standard here.

If that is the case, it's disappointing.

OTOH, at least he didn't empty his magazine into the guy.

Ever since the Boston Marathon debacle, I've had a weed up my butt about
cops blowing guys like that away before they can be properly
"Debriefed".


WTF? I suspect you 'misremembered' that.

Tamerlan Trarnayev died of blunt trauma, run over by his
own idiot brother while in a gunfight with police (following
multiple murders and maimings by explosive and the stealth
murder of a police officer in his squad car).

p.s. I'll bet you real money that said idiot brother,
Dzhokhar, sentenced to death, will die of something else
after a lengthy stay on the taxpayer's dime.

Federal tax payers for the supermax in Colorado. Confinement in a state
prison might have expedited the sentence -- not that I'm in favor of
shower-room justice, not much.

He's entitled to his appeals, if he takes any. Then we have to agonize
about getting the right lethal drugs. What amazes me is that so many
things are fatal, yet we can't kill people right. Secobarbital and
pentobarbital seem to do the trick for the death with dignity folks
here in Oregon. We chloroformed our sick and dying pets when I was a
kid, and that seemed to work fine. What's with all the failed cocktails?

-- Jay Beattie.


Every state and the Feds spend some amount of effort, time
and money to burn seized Heroin and related contraband. They
sorta make a half hearted effort to explain that these
things are dangerous. In fact a few hundred USAians per day
discover the fatal dosage for their own body weight
empirically. Yet States with a putative death penalty bemoan
'lack' of lethal drugs.
http://time.com/29345/oklahoma-lethal-injection-drugs/

There's a ridiculous mental block about connecting those dots.

Meanwhile, some condemned prisoners dislike needles:
http://www.wcpo.com/news/state/state...on-alternative

and as you implied some crimes get addressed differently
http://www.nytimes.com/1994/11/29/us...-prison.html71


It's been pointed out by others that the most humane version of the death
penalty might be a single bullet to the brain stem from behind. As far as we
know, it's instantaneous, probably much faster than the guillotine. I don't
know why that's not considered the default method.

- Frank Krygowski


I think one issue with that approach is that it's not necessarily very
humane to the guy pulling the trigger (although I suspect there would be
somebody willing to do that job for the right amount of money). I guess
that's one field where a bit of automation might be helpful.


At one time the Thai's used a modification of that scheme. From 1937
until 2002 the individual was tied to a post behind a large screen or
sheet of paper which had a target marked to aligned with the
individual's heart. A small machine gun was used to fire 15 rounds
through the target.
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #56  
Old November 6th 17, 03:29 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
(PeteCresswell)
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,790
Default NY bike path mayhem

Per AMuzi:
WTF? I suspect you 'misremembered' that.

Tamerlan Trarnayev died of blunt trauma


I was thinking of his brother hiding in the boat and the 20 seconds of
continuous small arms fire ("Contagious Fire"??) that the geniuses
surrounding poured into the boat.

It was nothing short of a miracle that he survived - and at a time when
they did not know:

- If others were involved

- If more bombs had been placed.

If ever there was an need to keep somebody alive to be debriefed in the
interest of saving civilian lives, that was it.

Didn't the 911 investigative panel return a finding that communications
between agencies/forces was a major failing? .... Didn't seem to me
like there was much communication going on the more like every
amateur/volunteer cop/Barney Fife Wannabe for miles around descending on
the place looking for somebody to shoot.

And did anybody else notice the guy in the full beard and plain clothes
carrying something that looked like an AR-15 running around? I'm
surprised he lived through that debacle.

I watched most of it on live TV and came away thinking I had been
watching The Keystone Cops in action.

Heaven forbid something really big happens.
--
Pete Cresswell
  #57  
Old November 6th 17, 03:30 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
(PeteCresswell)
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,790
Default NY bike path mayhem

Per jbeattie:
I'm sure Temple Grandin could figure something out.


Bingo !!!... We have a winnah!!
--
Pete Cresswell
  #58  
Old November 6th 17, 04:58 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joy Beeson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,638
Default NY bike path mayhem

On Sun, 05 Nov 2017 11:39:36 -0600, Tim McNamara
wrote:

You can release a wrongfully convicted person from
prison and make some restitution to them, but you cannot release someone
from the grave.


You can't un-kill anybody, it's true, but you also can't un-torture
people who have been kept in cages for years. You can't even pay back
a fine unless it was such a small fine that it didn't hurt.

The only reason for opposing "death penalty" is that we the people
can't delegate authority that we don't have. We are entitled to kill
in self-defense, if we haven't time to think of a better way to defend
ourselves, but we aren't entitled to kill someone who is safely caged
and can't harm anyone without the consent of his jailors.

follow up set to rec.bicycles.misc

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
  #59  
Old November 6th 17, 05:57 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
dave[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 61
Default NY bike path mayhem

On Sun, 05 Nov 2017 08:40:11 -0800, avagadro7 wrote:

snip

hunters n cops get worked up in battle: extremely viscous, harried, bad
shot, multiple rounds .... testing proficiency in real time conditions
is ?


They are generally pretty hard to pour into a bottle even when not in
battle.

--
davethedave
  #60  
Old November 6th 17, 06:41 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default NY bike path mayhem

On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 20:24:50 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 11/5/2017 7:58 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/5/2017 6:05 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:

It's been pointed out by others that the most humane version of the
death
penalty might be a single bullet to the brain stem from behind. As
far as we
know, it's instantaneous, probably much faster than the guillotine. I
don't
know why that's not considered the default method.

- Frank Krygowski

I think one issue with that approach is that it's not necessarily very
humane to the guy pulling the trigger (although I suspect there would be
somebody willing to do that job for the right amount of money). I guess
that's one field where a bit of automation might be helpful.


Hence the traditional firing squad with one blank cartridge in the
squad. Mr Barone hints at the larger effect of the simpler method:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/nkvd.jpg

You don't want people to get inured to execution such that it seems
ordinary.


One of my friends and colleagues was of the Bahá'í faith. He fled to
this country to avoid persecution by Iranian muslims.

He once gave me his account of the execution, by firing squad, of the
Báb, the founder of the faith. He was placed against a wall. Hundreds of
men in the firing squad pointed their rifles and, at the command, pulled
their triggers. My friend says when the smoke cleared, the Báb was
unhurt. According to my friend, it was no miracle. It was simply that of
the hundreds with rifles, none wanted to be responsible for killing such
an obviously holy man.

The official Bahá'í versions are different, shading a bit more toward
the miraculous. In any case, a second attempt did kill the Báb.



A very radical religion. Good Lord they forbid:
Backbiting and gossip
Drinking or selling alcohol
Sexual intercourse outside of marriage
Partisan politics
Begging as a profession
--
Cheers,

John B.

 




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