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How can I blacken stainless steel spokes?



 
 
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  #11  
Old May 13th 09, 05:21 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Bill Sornson[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,541
Default How can I blacken stainless steel spokes?

Johan Bornman wrote:
Nowadays with all the spoke options I am hard-pressed to keep, or
indeed, find stock of all the permutations. How do they blacken spokes
and can this be done in a workshop as and when needed?


Wok with motor oil. Turn on high.


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  #12  
Old May 13th 09, 06:01 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9
Default How can I blacken stainless steel spokes?

he
Stainless Steel Blackener 370 is an acidic liquid concentrate used full
strength or diluted with up to 3 parts water to blacken stainless steel at
room temperature. Recommended for color coding parts and blackening
engravings on stainless steels. Produces a pleasing dark gray/black finish.
No sealer required.


link he

http://www.caswellplating.com/kits/black.htm#stainless

========

This is a posibility.

There is a mention that there is a process of applying aluminum to stainless
steel and then anodizing it the color you want:

December 10, 2008


You can also treat stainless steel with IVD - ion vapour deposition - to
give an aluminium coating. You can then anodise it in the same way as
aluminium.

Andrew Pridmore
- Gillingham, Kent, UK

link he

http://www.finishing.com/245/20.shtml



Good luck, cause some of this stuff you would have to buy it, and the cost
is high compared to the need for black spokes.

hope this helps

greg

"Mike Rocket J Squirrel" wrote in message
...
On 5/12/2009 1:42 PM wrote:

black anodized steel is a common thing, all you have to do is find out
how it is done and do it on a small scale for spokes.
hope this helps
greg


I'm pretty sure that anodizing isn't used on steel.

"Anodic films are most commonly applied to protect aluminium alloys,
although processes also exist for titanium, zinc, magnesium, and niobium.
This process is not a useful treatment for iron or carbon steel because
these metals exfoliate when oxidized; i.e. the iron oxide (also known as
rust) flakes off, constantly exposing the underlying metal to corrosion."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anodize

I wonder how stainless parts are made black, commercially... some Googling
turned up:

"...there is a commercial proprietary product available for blackening
stainless steel based on copper-selenium chemistry. It is used at room
temperature. More information can be obtained by doing an internet search
under the term “blackening process.”

http://www.pfonline.com/articles/cli...cl_plate3.html


--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel"
Bend, Oregon



  #13  
Old May 13th 09, 06:17 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tosspot[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 769
Default How can I blacken stainless steel spokes?

jim beam wrote:
Tosspot wrote:
Johan Bornman wrote:
Nowadays with all the spoke options I am hard-pressed to keep, or
indeed, find stock of all the permutations. How do they blacken spokes
and can this be done in a workshop as and when needed?


Can't you just heat them up and dunk them in motor oil. I seem to
recall that from boyhood buggerings about.


not while keeping their full work hardened strength.


Ah. Probably best not do that then
  #14  
Old May 13th 09, 06:20 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,635
Default How can I blacken stainless steel spokes?

On May 12, 8:18*pm, Johan Bornman wrote:
Nowadays with all the spoke options I am hard-pressed to keep, or
indeed, find stock of all the permutations. How do they blacken spokes
and can this be done in a workshop as and when needed?


You can have the spokes polished and black-chromed . However.
chromeplating covers cracks and may even cause them, which is why
stressed parts should not be chrome-plated.

The same applies to ion-plating, which is good for a matte result.

Or you can dip the spokes in hot oil and then bake it on in an oven. I
don't know if a microwave will do the the job.
  #15  
Old May 13th 09, 06:26 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Carl Sundquist[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 222
Default How can I blacken stainless steel spokes?

Andre Jute wrote:
On May 12, 8:18 pm, Johan Bornman wrote:
Nowadays with all the spoke options I am hard-pressed to keep, or
indeed, find stock of all the permutations. How do they blacken spokes
and can this be done in a workshop as and when needed?


You can have the spokes polished and black-chromed . However.
chromeplating covers cracks and may even cause them, which is why
stressed parts should not be chrome-plated.

The same applies to ion-plating, which is good for a matte result.

Or you can dip the spokes in hot oil and then bake it on in an oven. I
don't know if a microwave will do the the job.


Is there any sort of oxide treatment that might be suitable?
  #16  
Old May 13th 09, 06:30 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected][_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 214
Default How can I blacken stainless steel spokes?

On May 12, 1:18*pm, Johan Bornman wrote:
Nowadays with all the spoke options I am hard-pressed to keep, or
indeed, find stock of all the permutations. How do they blacken spokes
and can this be done in a workshop as and when needed?


Dear Johan,

Modern black stainless steel spokes seem to be coated or plated:

"Today’s fashion is black or coloured spokes. Although the coating is
very tough, it is not entirely scratchproof. This means that the
wheelbuilder has to take this risk into account and match his
procedure accordingly. For Holland Mechanics the black spoke fashion
meant that new
sensors to detect black spokes had to be developed for the trueing
machines. With the new sensor, the machine will even indicate when
various spokes are mixed up in one wheel."

http://www.hollandmechanics.com/2007/pdf/HMToday_3.pdf

"DT says its black spokes are the same strength as its silver spokes
and that the coating doesn't affect the strength."

"As I understand it, some black spokes are coloured by a plating
process that's more-or-less chroming. Chrome plating has been known
for years to make spokes brittle, which is why silver-coloured chrome-
plated spokes all but vanished in the 80s."

"But the bike industry has the knowledge retention of a goldfish."

--John Stevenson, Editor-in-chief, Future cycling

http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewt...f 08a217c8bba

***

Highwheeler spokes were often covered with black enamel from the rim
to roughly the crossing, and then nickel-plated the rest of the way to
the hub, like this:

http://home.att.net/~jfgorham/images/20060727_02.jpg

Enamel resisted pitting and wear better than nickel plating--the
tougher enamel was better suited to the end of the spoke down in the
dirt-road mud and dust (and could be renewed by the owner, with some
effort), while the more fragile but more attractive nickel plating
(which few owners could re-do on their own) stood a better chance of
surviving a foot or so above the road.

Once you've seen the real thing or a color photo like the one above,
the nickel-plated starburst at the hub is obvious in black-and-white
photos:

http://www.pepcak.webzdarma.cz/vyspan620.jpg

Like modern black spokes, the black and nickel combination was prized
for looks, but they enamel and nickel-plating also offered some
protection to the non-stainless steel spokes, and the practice
continued when safeties were introduced:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2146/...29411184_o.jpg

Bikes #1 and #2 in this photo have nickel-plated starburst spokes:

http://i36.tinypic.com/vfdx1c.jpg

Here's an early explanation of the enamel-nickel combination:

"If your wheels are not yet built up, do not attempt the removal of
hardened cups from hubs. The rims should be store enamelled before
wheels are built, and the spokes carefully brush enamelled after
completion; this insures good wearing cups. Many of our large firms
run the risk of softening cases by enamelling complete for sake of
appearance. If you must have perfection in appearance and finish, have
your spokes nickel-plated right through if direct; and if tangent,
plate 3 in. from headed end, and brush enamel up to where spokes cross
each other."

--"English Mechanic," 1894

http://books.google.com/books?id=DIU...utput=textwith
some odd colors:

Black wasn't the only color for spoke enamel:

"Model 40 [safety from Warwick in 1898], the highest grade ladies'
Cleveland, is one of the most notable productions of the year, with
specifications, in part, as follows : 28-inch wheels, with blue
spokes . . ."

--"Outing," 1898
http://books.google.com/books?id=PKz...page#PPA517,M1

Cheers,

Carl Fogel
  #17  
Old May 13th 09, 11:13 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Nate Nagel[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,872
Default How can I blacken stainless steel spokes?

Tosspot wrote:
Johan Bornman wrote:
Nowadays with all the spoke options I am hard-pressed to keep, or
indeed, find stock of all the permutations. How do they blacken spokes
and can this be done in a workshop as and when needed?


Can't you just heat them up and dunk them in motor oil. I seem to
recall that from boyhood buggerings about.


I'd think that would possibly change the heat treating properties of the
steel, if any. (what you're describing is basically oil quenching...)

I'd be tempted to try a home blueing kit intended for firearms - you
won't get a perfectly black finish but close to it, and it won't look
like paint either

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
  #18  
Old May 13th 09, 01:21 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,442
Default How can I blacken stainless steel spokes?

wrote:
On May 12, 1:18 pm, Johan Bornman wrote:
Nowadays with all the spoke options I am hard-pressed to keep, or
indeed, find stock of all the permutations. How do they blacken spokes
and can this be done in a workshop as and when needed?


Dear Johan,

Modern black stainless steel spokes seem to be coated or plated:

"Today’s fashion is black or coloured spokes. Although the coating is
very tough, it is not entirely scratchproof. This means that the
wheelbuilder has to take this risk into account and match his
procedure accordingly. For Holland Mechanics the black spoke fashion
meant that new
sensors to detect black spokes had to be developed for the trueing
machines. With the new sensor, the machine will even indicate when
various spokes are mixed up in one wheel."

http://www.hollandmechanics.com/2007/pdf/HMToday_3.pdf

"DT says its black spokes are the same strength as its silver spokes
and that the coating doesn't affect the strength."

"As I understand it, some black spokes are coloured by a plating
process that's more-or-less chroming. Chrome plating has been known
for years to make spokes brittle, which is why silver-coloured chrome-
plated spokes all but vanished in the 80s."

"But the bike industry has the knowledge retention of a goldfish."

--John Stevenson, Editor-in-chief, Future cycling

http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewt...f 08a217c8bba

***

Highwheeler spokes were often covered with black enamel from the rim
to roughly the crossing, and then nickel-plated the rest of the way to
the hub, like this:

http://home.att.net/~jfgorham/images/20060727_02.jpg

Enamel resisted pitting and wear better than nickel plating--the
tougher enamel was better suited to the end of the spoke down in the
dirt-road mud and dust (and could be renewed by the owner, with some
effort), while the more fragile but more attractive nickel plating
(which few owners could re-do on their own) stood a better chance of
surviving a foot or so above the road.

Once you've seen the real thing or a color photo like the one above,
the nickel-plated starburst at the hub is obvious in black-and-white
photos:

http://www.pepcak.webzdarma.cz/vyspan620.jpg

Like modern black spokes, the black and nickel combination was prized
for looks, but they enamel and nickel-plating also offered some
protection to the non-stainless steel spokes, and the practice
continued when safeties were introduced:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2146/...29411184_o.jpg

Bikes #1 and #2 in this photo have nickel-plated starburst spokes:

http://i36.tinypic.com/vfdx1c.jpg

Here's an early explanation of the enamel-nickel combination:

"If your wheels are not yet built up, do not attempt the removal of
hardened cups from hubs. The rims should be store enamelled before
wheels are built, and the spokes carefully brush enamelled after
completion; this insures good wearing cups. Many of our large firms
run the risk of softening cases by enamelling complete for sake of
appearance. If you must have perfection in appearance and finish, have
your spokes nickel-plated right through if direct; and if tangent,
plate 3 in. from headed end, and brush enamel up to where spokes cross
each other."

--"English Mechanic," 1894

http://books.google.com/books?id=DIU...utput=textwith
some odd colors:

Black wasn't the only color for spoke enamel:

"Model 40 [safety from Warwick in 1898], the highest grade ladies'
Cleveland, is one of the most notable productions of the year, with
specifications, in part, as follows : 28-inch wheels, with blue
spokes . . ."

--"Outing," 1898
http://books.google.com/books?id=PKz...page#PPA517,M1

Cheers,

Carl Fogel


"Store enamelled" possibly "stove enamelled"

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
  #19  
Old May 13th 09, 01:22 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
P. Chisholm
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 522
Default How can I blacken stainless steel spokes?

On May 12, 1:18*pm, Johan Bornman wrote:
Nowadays with all the spoke options I am hard-pressed to keep, or
indeed, find stock of all the permutations. How do they blacken spokes
and can this be done in a workshop as and when needed?


Are you in the US? A bike shop?
If so I can give you the name of my spoke supplier, DT spokes, all
lengths, black or silver, various gauges.
  #20  
Old May 13th 09, 02:01 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jim beam[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 941
Default How can I blacken stainless steel spokes?

wrote:
he
Stainless Steel Blackener 370 is an acidic liquid concentrate used full
strength or diluted with up to 3 parts water to blacken stainless steel at
room temperature. Recommended for color coding parts and blackening
engravings on stainless steels. Produces a pleasing dark gray/black finish.
No sealer required.


link he

http://www.caswellplating.com/kits/black.htm#stainless

========

This is a posibility.

There is a mention that there is a process of applying aluminum to stainless
steel and then anodizing it the color you want:

December 10, 2008


You can also treat stainless steel with IVD - ion vapour deposition - to
give an aluminium coating. You can then anodise it in the same way as
aluminium.

Andrew Pridmore
- Gillingham, Kent, UK

link he

http://www.finishing.com/245/20.shtml



Good luck, cause some of this stuff you would have to buy it, and the cost
is high compared to the need for black spokes.

hope this helps

greg

"Mike Rocket J Squirrel" wrote in message
...
On 5/12/2009 1:42 PM wrote:

black anodized steel is a common thing, all you have to do is find out
how it is done and do it on a small scale for spokes.
hope this helps
greg

I'm pretty sure that anodizing isn't used on steel.

"Anodic films are most commonly applied to protect aluminium alloys,
although processes also exist for titanium, zinc, magnesium, and niobium.
This process is not a useful treatment for iron or carbon steel because
these metals exfoliate when oxidized; i.e. the iron oxide (also known as
rust) flakes off, constantly exposing the underlying metal to corrosion."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anodize

I wonder how stainless parts are made black, commercially... some Googling
turned up:

"...there is a commercial proprietary product available for blackening
stainless steel based on copper-selenium chemistry. It is used at room
temperature. More information can be obtained by doing an internet search
under the term �blackening process.�

http://www.pfonline.com/articles/cli...cl_plate3.html


--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel"
Bend, Oregon




you guys, with respect, are smoking crack. the per-item cost to do all
this stuff is just ridiculously high compared to purchase of the
requisite parts form an expert manufacturer that will not weaken or
fatigue or corrode their own product. just buy the freakin' things and
quit this ridiculous festival of ignorance.
 




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