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#51
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France + Switzerland mountain roads questions
"Ken Roberts" wrote in message
... Mike Jacoubowsky wrote Presently we're booked in Chambery, but it really looks like Albertville would be the better place, with direct (by bike, without car) access to the Annecy and Grand Bournand stages, and possibly a train ride to St Bourg Maurice where we could ride to the Petite St. Bernard pass for that stage. * I like Chambery better as a city, with a marked bike route that gives access to the countryside south and north (goes roughly near lots of the hotels, I'd guess less than half a mile from the Etap on the RN6 near Challes-les-Eaux). And I think the farmland riding immediately accessible from Chambery is nicer than around Albertville. * Chambery has great fast road access to most of the northern French Alps -- and lots of other places such as the Geneva + Lyon airports. I like to use it as a base, and I plan to use my rental car to exploit that advantage. But if your plan is to try to avoid actually using your rental car, then the fit is not so clear. Chambery is in all likelihood a nicer town than Albertville; descriptions from most being that Albertville is just kind of there, a town without any sort of soul, sort of a shell after the Olympics. But from Albertville there is access, by bike, to three stages... without having to drive much (not at all for two of the stages). Tuesday's stage over Col du Petite St-Bernard can be accessed either by taking the train to Bourg St. Maurice, riding to the top of the pass and then return after the race passes through. Could be a bit of a ride back to Albertville, given the time of day (figure on not being able to get back to Bourg St. Maurice before 18:30 or so, and it's about 55km from there to Albertville... if the weather's nice, still something I could do with my son; otherwise, perhaps drive the car to Moutiers and ride from there). * riding from Albertville to Grand Bornand sounds like a rather big day, and could have traffic interaction problems. The N212 thru Val d'Arly gets lots of traffic in a hurry, lots of curves, much not wide. The obvious alternative is to ride D925 to Beaufort and then climb over Col des Saisies -- but again the D925 gets a fair amount of traffic, lots of tight curves, much not wide (and getting over Saisies is substantial work). (I've never cycled either of those roads, but I've driven them many times in my car). There are other alternatives (the one I've cycled was the D109? thru Hery on the west side of the N212, with some steep climbing and not such rewarding views, and it doesn't avoid all of the N212). Another idea might be to drive to somewhere near Flumet and only ride the climb over Col d'Aravis -- but don't count on finding parking in the village of Flumet. I was thinking of something a bit different. The race goes from Bourg St. Maurice over the Cormet de Roseland and Col des Saisies before looping out through Sallanches and back over the Col du Colombiere. A nice ride might be to take the train from Albertville to Bourg St. Maurice and then ride the course (many hours ahead of the race) up to the Col des Saisies and watch the race from there. Afterward, ride back to Albertville via Beaufort and D925, or via Flumet and N212. If we're slower than planned, we could always see the race on the Cormet de Roseland instead. Either way, we're dealing with the less-desirable roads in the downhill direction, and it wouldn't be the first time we'd ridden for miles on end downhill in the middle of the two lanes with many hundreds of other cyclists. Thursday is the Time Trial around Lake Annecy, a hop skip & a jump from Albertville via N212 and the Ugine Bike Path to Lake Annecy. Staying in Chambery we could still ride to Lake Annecy without any problem, but the other stages would be beyond reach without driving. We could take the train to either Albertville or Bourg St. Maurice, but it doesn't seem safe to assume that we'll be able to get on with our bikes if it's too crowded. We'll still have a couple days of riding available on Sunday & Monday to do as we please, probably involving a run to Grenoble to take in the Alpe d'Huez and possibly the balcony roads on the opposite side. Alternatively we could spend a day in the Vercors region. Obviously, those would be closer to a base in Chambery. So my present thinking is to arrive in Chambery late Saturday, ride in the Alpe d'Huez region Monday & Tuesday, then Tuesday night move on to Albertville. So Chambery Saturday & Sunday & Monday nights (rent car Saturday night in Chambery at the train station, since you can't rent a car for the most part on a Sunday anywhere but the biggest cities) Albertville Tuesday, Wednesday & Thursday nights Avignon Friday & Saturday nights (return rental car in Avignon on Sunday morning at the TGV station) Paris Sunday Getting to Chambery and the return from Paris are still problematic. Air fare is still too expensive, but it's quite possible we'll see an air fare sale sometime in the winter. I can try to use miles on United, but it's not easy into France. Very easy to fly into London, but then what??? The Eurostar doesn't connect up well to Heathrow, and would involve clumsy transfers in Paris (probably coming into Gare du Nord and then having to get to Gare Lyon, not easily done with bikes & luggage). Taking a separate flight from London doesn't work well due to the outrageous fees for bikes (which could be as high as $175 each way, per bike, on United). At least it's super easy on the TGV trip from Avignon to Paris. Our hotel is attached, literally, to Gare Lyon. --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReactionBicycles.com |
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#52
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France + Switzerland mountain roads questions
On 29 Ott, 05:00, "Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote:
OK, a general question. Presently we're booked in Chambery, but it really looks like Albertville would be the better place, with direct (by bike, without car) access to the Annecy and Grand Bournand stages, and possibly a train ride to St Bourg Maurice ... One word about it. I passed through Alberville only once, a long time ago, long before the Olympics, when I was not aware (or perhaps it wasn't yet a real road?) of the Cormet de Roselend. It was early august, the heat was unbarable and the place so dull. If I recall well the area is a mining district, and that added a lot to the ugliness of the ride to Bourg Saint Maurice. Never again! _For Ken_ You mentioned Gadmen. Would you believe that I stopped right there, overnight, this past august? Sergio éosa |
#53
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France + Switzerland mountain roads questions
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote
Tuesday's stage over Col du Petite St-Bernard can be accessed either by taking the train to Bourg St. Maurice . . . if the weather's nice, still something I could do with my son; otherwise, perhaps drive the car to Moutiers and ride from there). If you're going to drive as far as Moutiers, I would definitely recommend just keep driving to Aime -- some of the sections on the main road between Moutiers and Aime are bike-unfriendly. Between Aime and BStM are about three different routes that avoid the main road. So my present thinking is to arrive in Chambery late Saturday, ride in the Alpe d'Huez region Monday & Tuesday, then Tuesday night move on to Albertville. Chambery is not much closer to Bourg d'Oisans than Albertville. And for say Col du Galibier or Col de la Croix de Fer (or Glandon though I don't found that as interesting as the other two), Albertville is closer than Chambery. So unless you just like switching hotel rooms every couple of days, seems like Albertville makes more sense as a base for that whole time. Getting to Chambery and the return from Paris are still problematic. I'm not understanding why Paris is involved in this. Why not consider flying in to Geneva (or Lyon, or even Torino)? Ken |
#54
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France + Switzerland mountain roads questions
sergio wrote
I passed through Albertville only once, a long time ago . . . If I recall well the area is a mining district, and that added a lot to the ugliness of the ride to Bourg Saint Maurice. I wasn't there so long ago, and I don't think the mining is so visible any more. I've driven the main road many times (but never in August, and never biked on it) -- I can't say much of it ever struck me as "ugly". I think there's some pretty riding on the side roads - (if you can figure out a way to skip the section around Moutiers and between Moutiers and Aime). You mentioned Gadmen. Would you believe that I stopped right there, overnight, this past august? I've only ridden thru it (downhill) and driven my car thru it -- but it looked pleasant and quiet. My main interest in it was as a starting point for Sharon and me to ride up the west of Sustenpass on our tandem. It used to be we had this nice division: We rode the gentle + moderate regions on our tandem, and I would ride the spectacular mountain roads on separate days after Sharon flew home. But then I made the mistake of riding one day in the Dolomites with her on the tandem. So now she complains if she comes to Europe and doesn't get to ride any mountain roads. So now I have to be on the lookout for creative ways for us to ride some of the best together. Italy: Would you believe that the brew pub in Lurago Marinone where Sharon and I had dinner with Carla (who wrote the book about riding all around the coasts of Europe and likes to climb Brunate by Como) was featured in the lead article in the New York Times travel section -- about how Italy is now becoming an important destination for artisan beers -- but so far only Lombardia + Piemonte (?) -- though once the English-speaking ex-pats in Toscana find out that it's trendy by reading about it in IHT or NYTimes, maybe you'll be seeing "serious" brew pubs further south. Ken |
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France + Switzerland mountain roads questions
"Ken Roberts" wrote in message
... Mike Jacoubowsky wrote Tuesday's stage over Col du Petite St-Bernard can be accessed either by taking the train to Bourg St. Maurice . . . if the weather's nice, still something I could do with my son; otherwise, perhaps drive the car to Moutiers and ride from there). If you're going to drive as far as Moutiers, I would definitely recommend just keep driving to Aime -- some of the sections on the main road between Moutiers and Aime are bike-unfriendly. Between Aime and BStM are about three different routes that avoid the main road. So my present thinking is to arrive in Chambery late Saturday, ride in the Alpe d'Huez region Monday & Tuesday, then Tuesday night move on to Albertville. Chambery is not much closer to Bourg d'Oisans than Albertville. And for say Col du Galibier or Col de la Croix de Fer (or Glandon though I don't found that as interesting as the other two), Albertville is closer than Chambery. So unless you just like switching hotel rooms every couple of days, seems like Albertville makes more sense as a base for that whole time. I definitely don't enjoy switching hotel rooms more often than I have to! But I also dislike a lot of driving. I'll check out the option of staying the entire time in Albertville, regardless of how non-descript a place people describe it as. The other option would be to stay the first two nights in Grenoble, which is definitely a lot closer. Picking up the car is probably going to be in Chambery no matter what though, since there are very few places open on Saturdays. Pretty much limited to Lyon (too far from the hotels), Chambery or Grenoble. Thinking about it, we could probably train into Annecy and rent a car there and drive 508/512 into Albertville. Looks like only an hour drive or so. I could live with that. But sure would be nice if we could have flown into Geneva! Getting to Chambery and the return from Paris are still problematic. I'm not understanding why Paris is involved in this. Why not consider flying in to Geneva (or Lyon, or even Torino)? I haven't looked into Torino, but Geneva and Lyon are both quite expensive to fly into... which is saying something, as Paris itself is *far* more expensive to fly into than London. If not for the bikes, I would fly into London, Eurostar or short-hop flight to Paris, rer into town and train to Chambery. Bikes complicate matters tremendously! Ken --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReactionBicycles.com |
#56
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France + Switzerland mountain roads questions
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote
I'll check out the option of staying the entire time in Albertville, regardless of how non-descript a place people describe it as. A chain hotel with easy driving access on the commercial strips north or south from Chambery isn't going to much more "atmospheric" than a chain hotel on the commercial zone on the south side of Albertville. I haven't looked into Torino, but Geneva and Lyon are both quite expensive to fly into... which is saying something, as Paris itself is *far* more expensive to fly into than London. I just did a quick search for the week July 3-12 and the airfares for SFO - GVA were definitely a little lower than for CDG. Yes of course _all_ the destinations are very expensive, but that's high season (which Sharon and I generally avoid). For us living around New York, Geneva is usually a no-brainer . . . get off from work a little early on Friday afternoon, fly non-stop during the night, get off the plane in the morning at the Switz/France border, pick up rental car, assemble bike, and I'm riding up the Col de l'Iseran in the afternoon. (or in winter time out on a short backcountry ski tour -- one year Sharon and I were out skiing on the cross-country trails in the Jura already before lunch on Saturday). And the Geneva airport is open to pick up rental cars on Sunday or Saturday (and because the airport is sitting on the national boundary, you can rent either a France or a Switz car, though it's a trickier to drive back to the France side of the airport to return the car with a French car). To me saving money is important, but it's also important to maximize the enjoyment of those limited precious days in France - (If I really wanted to save money, I'd just stay home). I'm seeing you jumping thru hoops to worry about picking a rental car (and giving up a beautiful afternoon of bicycling) - but GVA is easy and it's less than 2 hours drive to Chambery or Albertville. Flying to and from Torino generally is not a good bet for connecting to USA. But it's not so far from l'Alpe d'Huez (though myself if I were coming into Torino, I'd first climb Col del Nivolet. Ken |
#57
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France + Switzerland mountain roads questions
In article ,
"Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote: I definitely don't enjoy switching hotel rooms more often than I have to! But I also dislike a lot of driving. I'll check out the option of staying the entire time in Albertville, regardless of how non-descript a place people describe it as. The other option would be to stay the first two nights in Grenoble, which is definitely a lot closer. Picking up the car is probably going to be in Chambery no matter what though, since there are very few places open on Saturdays. Pretty much limited to Lyon (too far from the hotels), Chambery or Grenoble. Back in 2002 there was a car rental agency in the train station in Grenoble. |
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France + Switzerland mountain roads questions
"Tim McNamara" wrote in message
... In article , "Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote: I definitely don't enjoy switching hotel rooms more often than I have to! But I also dislike a lot of driving. I'll check out the option of staying the entire time in Albertville, regardless of how non-descript a place people describe it as. The other option would be to stay the first two nights in Grenoble, which is definitely a lot closer. Picking up the car is probably going to be in Chambery no matter what though, since there are very few places open on Saturdays. Pretty much limited to Lyon (too far from the hotels), Chambery or Grenoble. Back in 2002 there was a car rental agency in the train station in Grenoble. Pretty much all major train stations have car rental agencies. The problem is that most are closed on weekends, and sometimes even their weekday hours are pretty darned slim. In 2007 we rented a car in Pau. That was interesting; the rental agency was at the airport, and was open when planes were arriving, and closed otherwise. So it would be open for an hour or so, then closed for a couple hours, then open again... --Mike Jacoubowsky Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReaction.com Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA |
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