Accident/Insurance advice

I was involved in a bit of a bingle with a 4wd on Monday night.
Basically the guy pulled out of a side street to turn right onto the
street i was on, across in front of me just in time for me to plow into
him just behind the drivers door. I saw him going but as it was a
slight downhill i was getting along at about 40kph (i checked my
computer AFTER and it said 47kph was my max so far for the ride and as
this was the fastest section in the ride so far I'm assuming about 40)
and just did not have time to stop. Slammed on the brakes and just
remember thinking "F%@$ I am going to hit him!" Because he was slighty
turned and I slid side ways a bit it, I hit at an angle and not
directly into his side which i think saved me. After the intial impact
i must have slid along the side of his vehicle (putting a nice new dent
(with the bar ends i think) all the way along)and being spat out the
back end. Ended up rolling in midair and landing on my side/back in the
middle of the road with my bike beside me. Miracurously (sp?) the only
injuries i recieved were some sore and slightly swollen knees with some
skin off (i think from hitting the handle bars on the way over), a
bruised hip , plus shoulder and lats that feel like I've just done a
huge session at the gym. I consider myself VERY lucky!! The bike was
not so lucky....suspension forks snapped at the crown/arch (?) and the
front wheel bent back on itself, rim snapped and spokes that look like
spaghetti, and the disc is buckled (thank god for crumple zones, right
?? ) Frame LOOKS straight, handle bars look fine and lights still
work!! And what was the first thing the guy said (all together now)
"Sorry mate - didn't see you" WTF??!! Didn't see me?!! I had twin
halogen headlights, bright orange jumper - there are street lights all
the way along??! Sentiments that were echoed by the cops when they
arrived. They gave him a bit of a serve about it because he didn't seem
to think it was his fault, he even asked the cop if it was because it
was a cyclist that he getting so much grief and that just set the cop
off again. I actually felt slightly sorry for the guy (only slightly)
because i know that i've been in the car before and have just not seen
another car/bus/bike on some occasion....but it was the feeling that he
didn't think he was to blame that extinguished that my feeling sorry
for him!! I sincerely hope he has learnt from this - I know i have!!
I've never had an accident of any sort in 13 yrs of driving. I've had
some close calls since i started commuting 3 days per week 2.5 years
ago, but i don't think i truly realise what fine line it is we walk
(drive/ride ) when we're on the road - in any form of transport. I
just trusted other road users to do the right thing TOO much (looking
back now any amount of trust in other road users is too much!!) My wife
handled it fine until she came to pick me up and saw the condition of
the bike and i must admit a shiver goes up the spine when i look at my
poor bike. Anyway enough of the therapy session...I was just wondering
if anyone has any advice dealing with insurance companies on this. I've
contacted his insurance company and they've said that until he makes a
claim they're unable to help me and only then if he's at fault (which i
am pretty sure would be the result of the police report judging by what
was said at the scene) The advice I've recieved from NRMA (who i am
insured with for my car) and from his company is to get a quote (only
one required) and either wait for him to make a claim OR to send a
letter of demand to him personally with a quote for
repairs/replacement. If the letter goes ignored to send another giving
a time limit and advising that your going to commence legal
proceedings...and if that expires then to commence legal proceedings.
(i hope things don't get that far!!) As far as getting quotes i've
contacted some bike shops on this and they're more than willing to do
it, and that they'd get their mechanic (hopefully not some 18yo who
knows how to adjust gears/brakes and that's all) to inspect it and give
aquote. Some shops want a payment for this service which they'll take
from the price if i end up getting the bike from them. Fair enough
really (they have a business to run)but it means i don't want to have
to lug the bike to too many places and incur any cost my self (which i
really can't afford). My main concern is with the frame, whether there
is more than just cosmetic damage (of which there is hardly any)...how
do you go about checking that out? Will a shop mechanic be able to do
it?? or would a frame builder be better?? Any advice/experience would
be very much appreciated (what i've been receiving is skewed towards
cars it seems) I haven't got a regular LBS, am not a member of a BUG
and none of my mates ride....I lurk here on cyclingforums.com sometimes
and would appreciate a 'cyclists' point of view!


marcus

PS. sorry for the long winded post

PP What irks me the most is that i miss my bike and miss riding and
it's only been a couple of days and that any 'replacment' won't be
the same. This was THE one, it fit me like a glove and was MY bike.
Crazy the attachements we get to inanimate objects!!



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Originally posted by marcusl
snip Bummer dude.. nice to hear you are okay though. I can't help with
the insurance because all the people that've hit me have ****ed off
before I could have words and they've not been real serious anyway.

My main concern is with the frame, whether there is more than just
cosmetic damage (of which there is hardly any)...how do you go about
checking that out? Will a shop mechanic be able to do it?? or would a
frame builder be better??

Hitting front on, a likely place to spot damage will be at the headtube
where the top and downtubes are joined to it.

Look around _all_ the joins for very fine lines that aren't a weld seam
- these could be cracked tubes. Look for crumpled paint, which can also
indicate a squished tube.

Check the headset and make sure there's no movement within the frame, an
indication of headtube ovalising.

Check the paintjob all over for scratches, etc. - These could indicate
other places damage has occured.

Suzyj will have some suggestions for any funkier tests I'm sure - no
doubt involving a custom built, custom painted, one-size-fits-all, fully
automatic, NASA-approved frame jig. ;-)

Good luck with your insurance.

hippy



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Whoa! Great to hear your OK

Re the insurance. It seems inane that the onus is on him to have to make
a claim before they will act. I guess your note of damages will hurry
him along in that regard. make sure you cc thatletter to your insurer
and the Police too. Get a copy of their report so they cant blind you
with middle-management. If ,like most insurers' internal policies, and
they reject the claim out-of-hand first time round (they do this to weed
out half-arsed claims or the naive), dont be put off! You have been
wronged. You deserve recompence

As for the bike. Lay it down in the driveway and drive over it a few
times so you can claim for a completely new bike Its more than
likely if you hit hard enough for thr fork race to snap that there is
some crimping around the head-tube anyway

I have often dabbled with the idea of insurance for my bikes but the
cost is ridiculous. the BV recommended policy is ridiculous and requires
you to change your house policy to them

Hope your spinning again soon



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marcusl wrote:
I was involved in a bit of a bingle with a 4wd on Monday night.
[snip]
marcus
PS. sorry for the long winded post
PP What irks me the most is that i miss my bike and miss riding and
it's only been a couple of days and that any 'replacment' won't be
the same. This was THE one, it fit me like a glove and was MY bike.
Crazy the attachements we get to inanimate objects!!



Sorry to hear about the accident and I'm glad you're ok.

I once worked on a research project for an insurance company, examining
accident claims. My advice (fwiw) is to get your quote but also get an
assessment of the pre-accident value of your bike. If it is more costly
to restore your bike to its pre-accident condition, it will be cheaper
for the insurance company to cut you a cheque (as well as being the
correct settlement for the damage to your property).

You'll (probably) need to have a qualified insurance assessor to do that
for you - a quote for a new bike from the shop won't do.

Once you have the information, a letter of demand is a pretty powerful
tool for making the other insurance company move. From the research I
had done, the letter needs to be addressed to the insured, not the
company. After all, the insured is liable, whilst the insurer has
entered a separate arrangement to indemnify the insured.

Good luck,

Ritch.

PS. F***ing 4wds!



--

Originally posted by marcusl:
I was involved in a bit of a bingle with a 4wd on Monday night.

Bummer. Hope you recover quickly.

My main concern is with the frame, whether there is more than just
cosmetic damage (of which there is hardly any)...how do you go about
checking that out? Will a shop mechanic be able to do it?? or would a
frame builder be better??

There are some checks you can do yourself. Firstly, take the back
wheel out, and run some string from the inside face of one dropout,
forward round the headtube, and back to the inside face of the other
dropout. If the seat tube isn't in the middle, then the front end has
been bent sideways.

Check just back from the head tube, underneath the down tube, for any
wrinkling or cracked paint. This is the most stressed area when you hit
something (especially if you hit something hard enough to bend your
forks). Basically, the forks act as a lever, and push the bottom of the
head tube back.

Also check the back of the headtube at the bottom for signs of
paint chips.

You can check the angle of the head tube wrt the top tube using a
straightedge and precise protractor. This would be a good thing to do,
but would mean you'd have to take the headset cups out.

Take it to a reputable shop, and make sure they know that it's going to
be paid for by insurance.

Hope it all works out for you.

Regards,

Suzy



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hippy wrote:
Originally posted by marcusl
snip Bummer dude.. nice to hear you are okay though. I can't help with
the insurance because all the people that've hit me have ****ed off
before I could have words and they've not been real serious anyway.



After he finished telling me he didn't see me he then said he was very
scared for me, his girlfriend was very shaky too. At first i was
absolutely P'd off, (threw my bike onto the grass after i picked myself
up, angry at him BUT also at myself for letting it happen)....but he
seemed genuinely concerned, let me use his mobile to call my wife. And
he has been pretty good to talk to since then. when i was waiting for
him to cross the road to me, i was building myself up for a
confrontation (which i generally avoid) but he was very
apologetic....still didn't think it was his fault though....cop told him
to reread the road rules!

I'll give the bike a look over (couldn't face looking at it last night)
Thanks hippy... marcus



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Marcus,
1) get a copy of the police report (they don't automatically give it to you
in my experience
2) I suggest you get a bike shop that also builds frames to assess the bike,
eg Hillman, Cecil Walker, there must be several others. That way they can
put the frame in a jig to check for straightness etc as well as quote the
various bits & pieces
3) Send the quote(s) with a letter of demand to the driver, and send a copy
to his insurer. As I understand it you demand from the driver and then he
can decide if he wants to involve his insurance by making the claim, or pay
from his own pocket.

If the driver is charged with not giving way etc (and you might encourage
the cops to do so) that should make your case convincing.

There must be a few consumer rights websites with sample letters of demand
for such things.

If you are a Bicycle Victoria member, contact them and they will help with
the letter etc and other advice. If you are not a member, I'd highly
recommend you join for the accident insurance (both medical, income &
damnage to other party coverage) and their advice and advocacy role in these
situations, especially if you are commuting often.
best of luck

flyingdutch wrote:
Whoa! Great to hear your OK
Re the insurance. It seems inane that the onus is on him to have to make
a claim before they will act. I guess your note of damages will hurry
him along in that regard. make sure you cc thatletter to your insurer
and the Police too. Get a copy of their report so they cant blind you
with middle-management. If ,like most insurers' internal policies, and
they reject the claim out-of-hand first time round (they do this to weed
out half-arsed claims or the naive), dont be put off! You have been
wronged. You deserve recompence
As for the bike. Lay it down in the driveway and drive over it a few
times so you can claim for a completely new bike Its more than
likely if you hit hard enough for thr fork race to snap that there is
some crimping around the head-tube anyway
I have often dabbled with the idea of insurance for my bikes but the
cost is ridiculous. the BV recommended policy is ridiculous and requires
you to change your house policy to them
Hope your spinning again soon



Thanks flyingdutch - it'll be interesting to see how i go that first
ride....probably do me some good to have that little bit of fear maybe.
I think the idea of the letter of demand is for him to take to his
insurance company (if that's the way he wants to proceed) but if he
doesn't want to invlove insurance then it becomes a personal thing
between myself and him....and could end up in small claims court (or
something like that from what I've gleened) I defintley fit into the
naive category (when it comes to these matters), but am working on
fixing that!!

I have the COPS Event number (it's actually called that) and the officer
said that could be used for insurance purposes...they must be able to
access the police report...but yes wouldn't mind having a copy of it
myself! Not sure about 'my' insurer....i was a member of BNSW but it
lapsed a few months ago....had some personal accident insurance with
them.....as a bike user does my car insurance company care? guess i'll
have to give them a buzz....

I have thought about running the bike over in the driveway , but i
remeber when we had that huge hail storm here in Sydney and there were
people getting out there with golf balls in sock and all sorts putting
dents in their cars...trying to claim. Only to have the insurer almost
forensically examine the bloody things and find golf ball dimples in the
dents, socks fibres etc.

Cheers Marcus



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marcusl wrote in news:NOpEc.51016
:

Miracurously (sp?) the only
injuries i recieved were some sore and slightly swollen knees with some
skin off (i think from hitting the handle bars on the way over), a
bruised hip , plus shoulder and lats that feel like I've just done a
huge session at the gym

You seem to be worried mainly about the bike (I'd probably be the same),
but remember you have been injured and a course of physio or whatever
should also be part of the deal. Get yourself to a doctor NOW so he can say
you've done x, y & z to yourself. You can then claim for personal injury.


Graeme

ritcho wrote:
Sorry to hear about the accident and I'm glad you're ok.
I once worked on a research project for an insurance company, examining
accident claims. My advice (fwiw) is to get your quote but also get an
assessment of the pre-accident value of your bike. If it is more costly
to restore your bike to its pre-accident condition, it will be cheaper
for the insurance company to cut you a cheque (as well as being the
correct settlement for the damage to your property).
You'll (probably) need to have a qualified insurance assessor to do that
for you - a quote for a new bike from the shop won't do.
Once you have the information, a letter of demand is a pretty powerful
tool for making the other insurance company move. From the research I
had done, the letter needs to be addressed to the insured, not the
company. After all, the insured is liable, whilst the insurer has
entered a separate arrangement to indemnify the insured.
Good luck,
Ritch.
PS. F***ing 4wds!



How do you find a qualified insurance assessor for bicycles? Might give
BNSW a call they may know if there is one in Sydney.... How do you get a
pre-accident value assessment of your bike if it's not from a bike
shop...hmm....don't have the receipts...actually got it from my brother
in law who USED to run a bike shop on the Gold Coast for an extreme
discount ($700 instead of $1500) As for the letter, i read somewhere to
send it to both the insured and their insurer....it was actually his
dad's car and is probably insured thus....but i don't have his fathers
name.... Defintley more research required! In a way I'm kind of glad it
was a 4wd...if it had've been lower then i would have been catapulted
over the top and landed who knows how.... thanks for the advice marcus



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