Rear Wheel Alignment

Encountered a stuck dropout adjuster on an old Schwinn Paramount frame, and the adjuster did free up by doing this.
Like any stuck screw or bolt, spray with PB Blaster and let soak for a few minutes. If still stuck, soak more and let sit for a few hours. Also can use a small flame tip of a propane torch to heat the bolt at the head and thread ends. You may then have to touch up the frame's paint if not careful..

Btw, Been lurking the list since some comments on my lights appeared. I'll be glad to discuss and demo my lights privately with anyone. The uninformed discussion that went on on this list behind my back, without copying me or inviting me to comment, showed that this isn't a forum to have a lively techie discussion without encountering trolls and self appointed experts who try to contradict, in my case, entities like the US Patent Office, NASA, top recognized professional experts in optics, LED driver circuits, lean startup marketing methodology, and others around Silicon Valley.
Barry
www.barrybeams.com


On Thursday, October 29, 2015 at 5:23:35 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/28/2015 8:42 PM, John B. wrote:

The new(old) bike frame that I am slowly rebuilding into a light road
bike, has horizontal, the opening facing forward, frame ends on the
rear triangle, as did many older bikes. Unfortunately the R.H.
adjusting screw is frozen in the frame end and so far efforts to
remove it have failed and I am afraid to get too aggressive as there
isn't that much metal available that one wants to take the chance of
drilling and having the drill go off center.

What I have been thinking about doing is, perhaps, braze a shim,
perhaps 1/8" - 1/4" thick into the R.H. frame end, to establish a
fixed position for the R.H. axle end, and use the L.H. adjustment
screw, which is not installed and the threaded hole is in good
condition, to align the wheel.

The problem is that if both the right and left hand screws are
installed than the rear axle can aligned and also can be moved forward
in the slot by about one inch so the question is whether this is a
critical measurement.

Moving the axle will of course vary the distance between the upper
derailer pulley and the free hub but riding the bike with its
originally install derailer and the wheel as far back in the frame end
as possible and other bikes using vertical drop outs that have had the
upper idler pulley at various distances from the free hub, seem to
indicate that the distance between the derailer pulley and the cogs is
not a critical factor (which is not to say that it can be completely
ignored).

In brief, attempting to remove the broken screw presents the
possibility of damage to the frame end while not removing it means
that the wheel will likely further away from the derailer then on the
usual vertical drop out frame end. So the question is, is this
meaningful?

Comments?



--
cheers,

John B.


Here's the spec for that:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/sisend.html

If needed there were bolt-in axle stops in the olden days,
probably simpler and cleaner than a brazed stop. Some French
bikes also had a nylon slip-in axle stop, easily fabricated.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 29/10/2015 19:16, Barry Beams wrote:

The uninformed discussion that went on on this list behind my
back, without copying me or inviting me to comment

This isn't a private place, this is public. It can't be behind your back.

On 10/29/2015 2:16 PM, Barry Beams wrote:
Encountered a stuck dropout adjuster on an old Schwinn Paramount frame, and the adjuster did free up by doing this.
Like any stuck screw or bolt, spray with PB Blaster and let soak for a few minutes. If still stuck, soak more and let sit for a few hours. Also can use a small flame tip of a propane torch to heat the bolt at the head and thread ends. You may then have to touch up the frame's paint if not careful.

Btw, Been lurking the list since some comments on my lights appeared. I'll be glad to discuss and demo my lights privately with anyone. The uninformed discussion that went on on this list behind my back, without copying me or inviting me to comment, showed that this isn't a forum to have a lively techie discussion without encountering trolls and self appointed experts who try to contradict, in my case, entities like the US Patent Office, NASA, top recognized professional experts in optics, LED driver circuits, lean startup marketing methodology, and others around Silicon Valley.
Barry
www.barrybeams.com


On Thursday, October 29, 2015 at 5:23:35 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/28/2015 8:42 PM, John B. wrote:

The new(old) bike frame that I am slowly rebuilding into a light road
bike, has horizontal, the opening facing forward, frame ends on the
rear triangle, as did many older bikes. Unfortunately the R.H.
adjusting screw is frozen in the frame end and so far efforts to
remove it have failed and I am afraid to get too aggressive as there
isn't that much metal available that one wants to take the chance of
drilling and having the drill go off center.

What I have been thinking about doing is, perhaps, braze a shim,
perhaps 1/8" - 1/4" thick into the R.H. frame end, to establish a
fixed position for the R.H. axle end, and use the L.H. adjustment
screw, which is not installed and the threaded hole is in good
condition, to align the wheel.

The problem is that if both the right and left hand screws are
installed than the rear axle can aligned and also can be moved forward
in the slot by about one inch so the question is whether this is a
critical measurement.

Moving the axle will of course vary the distance between the upper
derailer pulley and the free hub but riding the bike with its
originally install derailer and the wheel as far back in the frame end
as possible and other bikes using vertical drop outs that have had the
upper idler pulley at various distances from the free hub, seem to
indicate that the distance between the derailer pulley and the cogs is
not a critical factor (which is not to say that it can be completely
ignored).

In brief, attempting to remove the broken screw presents the
possibility of damage to the frame end while not removing it means
that the wheel will likely further away from the derailer then on the
usual vertical drop out frame end. So the question is, is this
meaningful?

Comments?



--
cheers,

John B.


Here's the spec for that:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/sisend.html

If needed there were bolt-in axle stops in the olden days,
probably simpler and cleaner than a brazed stop. Some French
bikes also had a nylon slip-in axle stop, easily fabricated.

Well, if you're decrying a lack of civility in modern
culture generally and on usenet in particular, that's not news!

Nobody I know feels any obligation to forward later usenet
discussions to the OP.

Back to tech, if it is important enough to Mr Slocumb, he's
well aware of EDM screw removal service which is the
ultimate 'killer app', almost like magic.

p.s. Many usenet contributors eschew top posting.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 30/10/15 05:16, Barry Beams wrote:
Btw, Been lurking the list since some comments on my lights appeared.
I'll be glad to discuss and demo my lights privately with anyone.
The uninformed discussion that went on on this list behind my back,
without copying me or inviting me to comment, showed that this isn't
a forum to have a lively techie discussion without encountering
trolls and self appointed experts who try to contradict, in my case,
entities like the US Patent Office, NASA, top recognized professional
experts in optics, LED driver circuits, lean startup marketing
methodology, and others around Silicon Valley. Barry
www.barrybeams.com


From your website;

+ 1500 precisely targeted Lumens.

Cool. Does it comply with the German bicycle lighting standard?

+ Five brightnesses! Six flash patterns!

I don't care for so many options. I certainly don't care for flashing
front lights.

+ Unbreakable fully rotating mount.

Nice. I hope the light doesn't float about when you go over bumps.

+ Quick and easy battery changes.

My front light never needs a battery changed or charged.

+ Built in rapid battery recharger.

Don't care.

+ User programmable, no computer needed.

Sheesh, why would anyone want to "program" a headlight? I just want to
turn the thing on an ride! My light has one intermediate step, it
automatically senses the ambient light level and turns on or off
accordingly, if I want.

+ 1/2 a pound. Lightest in class!

What "class"? I didn't know bicycle lights were divided into classes.

+ Shines better than most cars!

I should think it would. Even mine is comparable to some car or
motorcycle lights.

+ Engineered and assembled in Silicon Valley, USA. *

Means nothing to me.

+ Limited Lifetime Warranty.

Sweet, but as I wouldn't want one, ...

--
JS

On Thursday, October 29, 2015 at 7:49:24 PM UTC-4, James wrote:
On 30/10/15 05:16, Barry Beams wrote:
Btw, Been lurking the list since some comments on my lights appeared.
I'll be glad to discuss and demo my lights privately with anyone.
The uninformed discussion that went on on this list behind my back,
without copying me or inviting me to comment, showed that this isn't
a forum to have a lively techie discussion without encountering
trolls and self appointed experts who try to contradict, in my case,
entities like the US Patent Office, NASA, top recognized professional
experts in optics, LED driver circuits, lean startup marketing
methodology, and others around Silicon Valley. Barry
www.barrybeams.com


From your website;

+ 1500 precisely targeted Lumens.

Cool. Does it comply with the German bicycle lighting standard?

+ Five brightnesses! Six flash patterns!

I don't care for so many options. I certainly don't care for flashing
front lights.

JS

When I'm riding my bicylce I want to be able to go from low beam to high beam with one push of a button. I want to be able to do it quicklt whilst riding at night on unlit roads or trails. I do NOT want to have to navigate through a bunch of modes to get to the mode I want.

SIX different flashing modes? That's overkill and overly complicated but I'm sure people like SMS will love it.

Programable lights for bicycles? I think that many bicycle lights are becoming over engineered to the point where they're getting to the point they're not even user friendly. As far as i'm concerned in bicycle lighting the KISS principle is good to follow. All those choices makes for more complicated innards which increases the chance of something breaking.

LIMITED WARRANTY to means that if something goes wrong you are SOL and without a light because you'll have to send your back to have it checked/repaired IF the company decides to repair it.

Cheers

On Thu, 29 Oct 2015 19:07:32 +0000, Clive George
wrote:

On 29/10/2015 11:17, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 29 Oct 2015 02:55:19 +0000, Clive George
wrote:

On 29/10/2015 01:42, John B. wrote:

In brief, attempting to remove the broken screw presents the
possibility of damage to the frame end while not removing it means
that the wheel will likely further away from the derailer then on the
usual vertical drop out frame end. So the question is, is this
meaningful?

Comments?

I'd be tempted to file the bit of the screw inside the dropout off.

Can't, there is no "end" there :-(

If there's no end on either side, surely the dropouts are just as if
there were no screws in them at all? You said there's a bit of broken
screw inside the drop out, but then that there's nothing. Maybe a
picture would help?

One side has a threaded hole, i.e., the adjusting screw is not there
at all and the other side has the body of the screw completely filling
the hole, i.e., both ends broken off flush with the drop out.

The thread is an M3-something thus the I.D. of the threaded hole is
about 2.5mm.
--
cheers,

John B.

On 10/29/2015 12:16 PM, Barry Beams wrote:
Encountered a stuck dropout adjuster on an old Schwinn Paramount frame, and the adjuster did free up by doing this.
Like any stuck screw or bolt, spray with PB Blaster and let soak for a few minutes. If still stuck, soak more and let sit for a few hours. Also can use a small flame tip of a propane torch to heat the bolt at the head and thread ends. You may then have to touch up the frame's paint if not careful.

Btw, Been lurking the list since some comments on my lights appeared. I'll be glad to discuss and demo my lights privately with anyone. The uninformed discussion that went on on this list behind my back, without copying me or inviting me to comment, showed that this isn't a forum to have a lively techie discussion without encountering trolls and self appointed experts who try to contradict, in my case, entities like the US Patent Office, NASA, top recognized professional experts in optics, LED driver circuits, lean startup marketing methodology, and others around Silicon Valley.
Barry
www.barrybeams.com

I notified you by e-mail on Thu, 17 Sep 2015, during Interbike, that
your light was being discussed on r.b.t..

Anyone can participate in this group. I don't recall anything negative
being said about your lights, just something about the web site needing
improvement. In fact my original post regarding your lights was pretty
complimentary.

On Thu, 29 Oct 2015 07:23:40 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 10/28/2015 8:42 PM, John B. wrote:

The new(old) bike frame that I am slowly rebuilding into a light road
bike, has horizontal, the opening facing forward, frame ends on the
rear triangle, as did many older bikes. Unfortunately the R.H.
adjusting screw is frozen in the frame end and so far efforts to
remove it have failed and I am afraid to get too aggressive as there
isn't that much metal available that one wants to take the chance of
drilling and having the drill go off center.

What I have been thinking about doing is, perhaps, braze a shim,
perhaps 1/8" - 1/4" thick into the R.H. frame end, to establish a
fixed position for the R.H. axle end, and use the L.H. adjustment
screw, which is not installed and the threaded hole is in good
condition, to align the wheel.

The problem is that if both the right and left hand screws are
installed than the rear axle can aligned and also can be moved forward
in the slot by about one inch so the question is whether this is a
critical measurement.

Moving the axle will of course vary the distance between the upper
derailer pulley and the free hub but riding the bike with its
originally install derailer and the wheel as far back in the frame end
as possible and other bikes using vertical drop outs that have had the
upper idler pulley at various distances from the free hub, seem to
indicate that the distance between the derailer pulley and the cogs is
not a critical factor (which is not to say that it can be completely
ignored).

In brief, attempting to remove the broken screw presents the
possibility of damage to the frame end while not removing it means
that the wheel will likely further away from the derailer then on the
usual vertical drop out frame end. So the question is, is this
meaningful?

Comments?



--
cheers,

John B.


Here's the spec for that:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/sisend.html

The specs seem to be showing the dimension of the axle in the furthest
forward position. Does this imply that if this dimension is correct
that the axle can be moved to the extreme rear of the horizontal
dropout with no problems?


If needed there were bolt-in axle stops in the olden days,
probably simpler and cleaner than a brazed stop. Some French
bikes also had a nylon slip-in axle stop, easily fabricated.

The only reason for a brazed in stop would be to make a fixed stop
that was far enough forward to allow centering of the wheel in the
rear triangle to be accomplished with a single adjusting screw (as
that is all I have at the moment :-). But essentially any sort of stop
would work.

Once I get back to Phuket where I have a small shop and the tools I
plan on trying to drill out the frozen screw but that is based on
cobbling up something to turn a 1 mm grill bit at somewhere around
9,000 rpm.

--
cheers,

John B.

On Thu, 29 Oct 2015 12:16:42 -0700 (PDT), Barry Beams
wrote:

Encountered a stuck dropout adjuster on an old Schwinn Paramount frame, and the adjuster did free up by doing this.
Like any stuck screw or bolt, spray with PB Blaster and let soak for a few minutes. If still stuck, soak more and let sit for a few hours. Also can use a small flame tip of a propane torch to heat the bolt at the head and thread ends. You may then have to touch up the frame's paint if not careful.

I did that, in fact I made a small cup and submerged the entire
dropout in a penetrating fluid for two days.

No luck.


Btw, Been lurking the list since some comments on my lights appeared. I'll be glad to discuss and demo my lights privately with anyone. The uninformed discussion that went on on this list behind my back, without copying me or inviting me to comment, showed that this isn't a forum to have a lively techie discussion without encountering trolls and self appointed experts who try to contradict, in my case, entities like the US Patent Office, NASA, top recognized professional experts in optics, LED driver circuits, lean startup marketing methodology, and others around Silicon Valley.
Barry
www.barrybeams.com


On Thursday, October 29, 2015 at 5:23:35 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/28/2015 8:42 PM, John B. wrote:

The new(old) bike frame that I am slowly rebuilding into a light road
bike, has horizontal, the opening facing forward, frame ends on the
rear triangle, as did many older bikes. Unfortunately the R.H.
adjusting screw is frozen in the frame end and so far efforts to
remove it have failed and I am afraid to get too aggressive as there
isn't that much metal available that one wants to take the chance of
drilling and having the drill go off center.

What I have been thinking about doing is, perhaps, braze a shim,
perhaps 1/8" - 1/4" thick into the R.H. frame end, to establish a
fixed position for the R.H. axle end, and use the L.H. adjustment
screw, which is not installed and the threaded hole is in good
condition, to align the wheel.

The problem is that if both the right and left hand screws are
installed than the rear axle can aligned and also can be moved forward
in the slot by about one inch so the question is whether this is a
critical measurement.

Moving the axle will of course vary the distance between the upper
derailer pulley and the free hub but riding the bike with its
originally install derailer and the wheel as far back in the frame end
as possible and other bikes using vertical drop outs that have had the
upper idler pulley at various distances from the free hub, seem to
indicate that the distance between the derailer pulley and the cogs is
not a critical factor (which is not to say that it can be completely
ignored).

In brief, attempting to remove the broken screw presents the
possibility of damage to the frame end while not removing it means
that the wheel will likely further away from the derailer then on the
usual vertical drop out frame end. So the question is, is this
meaningful?

Comments?



--
cheers,

John B.


Here's the spec for that:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/sisend.html

If needed there were bolt-in axle stops in the olden days,
probably simpler and cleaner than a brazed stop. Some French
bikes also had a nylon slip-in axle stop, easily fabricated.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
--
cheers,

John B.

On Thu, 29 Oct 2015 15:14:24 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 10/29/2015 2:16 PM, Barry Beams wrote:
Encountered a stuck dropout adjuster on an old Schwinn Paramount frame, and the adjuster did free up by doing this.
Like any stuck screw or bolt, spray with PB Blaster and let soak for a few minutes. If still stuck, soak more and let sit for a few hours. Also can use a small flame tip of a propane torch to heat the bolt at the head and thread ends. You may then have to touch up the frame's paint if not careful.

Btw, Been lurking the list since some comments on my lights appeared. I'll be glad to discuss and demo my lights privately with anyone. The uninformed discussion that went on on this list behind my back, without copying me or inviting me to comment, showed that this isn't a forum to have a lively techie discussion without encountering trolls and self appointed experts who try to contradict, in my case, entities like the US Patent Office, NASA, top recognized professional experts in optics, LED driver circuits, lean startup marketing methodology, and others around Silicon Valley.
Barry
www.barrybeams.com


On Thursday, October 29, 2015 at 5:23:35 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/28/2015 8:42 PM, John B. wrote:

The new(old) bike frame that I am slowly rebuilding into a light road
bike, has horizontal, the opening facing forward, frame ends on the
rear triangle, as did many older bikes. Unfortunately the R.H.
adjusting screw is frozen in the frame end and so far efforts to
remove it have failed and I am afraid to get too aggressive as there
isn't that much metal available that one wants to take the chance of
drilling and having the drill go off center.

What I have been thinking about doing is, perhaps, braze a shim,
perhaps 1/8" - 1/4" thick into the R.H. frame end, to establish a
fixed position for the R.H. axle end, and use the L.H. adjustment
screw, which is not installed and the threaded hole is in good
condition, to align the wheel.

The problem is that if both the right and left hand screws are
installed than the rear axle can aligned and also can be moved forward
in the slot by about one inch so the question is whether this is a
critical measurement.

Moving the axle will of course vary the distance between the upper
derailer pulley and the free hub but riding the bike with its
originally install derailer and the wheel as far back in the frame end
as possible and other bikes using vertical drop outs that have had the
upper idler pulley at various distances from the free hub, seem to
indicate that the distance between the derailer pulley and the cogs is
not a critical factor (which is not to say that it can be completely
ignored).

In brief, attempting to remove the broken screw presents the
possibility of damage to the frame end while not removing it means
that the wheel will likely further away from the derailer then on the
usual vertical drop out frame end. So the question is, is this
meaningful?

Comments?



--
cheers,

John B.


Here's the spec for that:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/sisend.html

If needed there were bolt-in axle stops in the olden days,
probably simpler and cleaner than a brazed stop. Some French
bikes also had a nylon slip-in axle stop, easily fabricated.

Well, if you're decrying a lack of civility in modern
culture generally and on usenet in particular, that's not news!

Nobody I know feels any obligation to forward later usenet
discussions to the OP.

Back to tech, if it is important enough to Mr Slocumb, he's
well aware of EDM screw removal service which is the
ultimate 'killer app', almost like magic.


Yes, in fact I worked in a shop that had one back in, maybe, 1970. One
of the guys in the shop went to considerable effort and made a set of
coining dies to make fake 25 cent coins figuring that he could get a
cold drink and some change from the coke machine. Unfortunately
Coca-Cola had all ready figured that out and brass 25 cent coins, no
matter how beautifully made, wouldn't work. :-(

The problem is that in a still somewhat primitive (but very
economical) 3rd world country where even translating E+D+M doesn't
come up with a usable description :-). "Electric machine that eats
steel"?

p.s. Many usenet contributors eschew top posting.

In studying the Usenet I am often reminded of a quotation from the
Marquis de Sade's writing, that "Truth titillates the imagination far
less than fiction" :-)
--
cheers,

John B.