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- John B. / Tue, 17 Nov 2015 12:43:30 +0100


You are about the first person, even military sailors included,
who know that a jib never has a mast for its own.

Not quite. A jib is a staysail set forward of the main mast, or fore
mast on a vessel with more then one mast. So while a staysail can be a
jib, it is not always a jib.

Comparing Wikipedia language versions, I see that there are
different definitions of terms. The English term comprises
several types that are strictly distingushed in other languages.

Well, it is about a game played with drunk sailers to ridicule
the stories they tell - doesn't work in English.


Off-topic anyway.



jk


--
no sig

- Duane / Tue, 17 Nov 2015 15:08:34 +0100


On cutters, there are two stay-sails but the inner one is called the
jib. At any rate, a jib doesn't have a mast AFAIK.

In Danish, Dutch, German, and Swedish, the big jib/s is/are called
'Fok' (Netherland spelling) while the most front-end staysail is
called 'Kluiver' (since it has the main purpose of trimming, it is
viewed as an own category).

Sorry, I didn't know that there is not such distinction in English.


jk



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- John B. / Wed, 18 Nov 2015 12:29:54 +0100


Right. So like the man said, a jib doesn't have a mast of its own.

Well, not in one sense. But on the other hand, the top end of the stay
needs to have something to tie it to :-)

It is usally tied to the main mast or to the front-most mast,
if there are more than one.




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no sig

On Wed, 18 Nov 2015 23:33:16 +0100, "Jakob Krieger"
wrote:

- Duane / Tue, 17 Nov 2015 15:08:34 +0100


On cutters, there are two stay-sails but the inner one is called the
jib. At any rate, a jib doesn't have a mast AFAIK.

In Danish, Dutch, German, and Swedish, the big jib/s is/are called
'Fok' (Netherland spelling) while the most front-end staysail is
called 'Kluiver' (since it has the main purpose of trimming, it is
viewed as an own category).

Sorry, I didn't know that there is not such distinction in English.


jk

Of course there is, although perhaps not the exact match. A "jib" is
usually the foremost sail set ahead of the front mast. A staysail
would be set, if used, aft of the jib but still forward of the front
mast.

In addition one might call a single very small, heavy, triangular sail
set forward of the mast a "storm jib" and a very large triangular sail
set forward of the front mast as a "Genoa" or even a "ghoster". :-)
--

Cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 18 Nov 2015 23:35:07 +0100, "Jakob Krieger"
wrote:

- John B. / Wed, 18 Nov 2015 12:29:54 +0100


Right. So like the man said, a jib doesn't have a mast of its own.

Well, not in one sense. But on the other hand, the top end of the stay
needs to have something to tie it to :-)

It is usally tied to the main mast or to the front-most mast,
if there are more than one.

That is the problem with word games :-) The original argument was that
a jib didn't have its own mast (although the stay the jib was set on
would have to have been attached to a mast :-)

But a staysail can be set anywhere. Full rigged ships sometimes rigged
them between the fore and main masts, or the main and mizzen, and
there are such things as "Staysail Schooners which set several
staysail instead of conventional sails.

But then, a stay sail can also be set "flying", without a stay at
all.

:-)
--

Cheers,

John B.

In addition one might call a single very small, heavy, triangular sail
set forward of the mast a "storm jib" and a very large triangular sail
set forward of the front mast as a "Genoa" or even a "ghoster". :-)


DIY cable /bike luber on May 17 has a Conti TT review! no really.
coincidence, no? Avast the mizzen!!!

- John B. / Thu, 19 Nov 2015 01:02:24 +0100


In addition one might call a single very small, heavy, triangular sail
set forward of the mast a "storm jib" and a very large triangular sail
set forward of the front mast as a "Genoa" or even a "ghoster". :-)

No, both replace the ordinary jib.

A 'kluiver' is an additional sail used for trimming
in first place and does not much thrust at all.


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- John B. / Thu, 19 Nov 2015 01:02:24 +0100


That is the problem with word games :-) The original argument was that
a jib didn't have its own mast (although the stay the jib was set on
would have to have been attached to a mast :-)

A jib meaning a 'kluiver' doesn't have an own mast, never.

A job meaning a 'fok' can have an own mast, and can also be an
old-fashion rectangular sail (then it has an own mast, else it
is attached to the main mast).


But a staysail can be set anywhere.

I did'nd doubt this. It is something like a concept of shape.



»imme ne hondbreid wasse unnem kiiel, jou«


that's how we say 'good luck for tomorrow' ...



jk


--
no sig

On Thu, 19 Nov 2015 03:29:32 +0000, Phil W Lee
wrote:

John B. considered Wed, 18 Nov 2015 18:29:54
+0700 the perfect time to write:

On Wed, 18 Nov 2015 02:33:56 -0000 (UTC), Duane
wrote:

John B. wrote:
On Tue, 17 Nov 2015 09:08:34 -0500, Duane
wrote:

On 17/11/2015 6:43 AM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 17 Nov 2015 02:02:52 +0100, "Jakob Krieger"
wrote:

- Phil W Lee / Mon, 16 Nov 2015 23:13:29 +0100


D'accord. But depth of water and depth of view must be
given in fathom values, no discussion
(unless you want to be tied to the jib-sail mast).

Which as I'm sure you know, would be the fore-mast or main-mast
depending on the rig.

BINGO!

You are about the first person, even military sailors included,
who know that a jib never has a mast for its own.


Not quite. A jib is a staysail set forward of the main mast, or fore
mast on a vessel with more then one mast. So while a staysail can be a
jib, it is not always a jib.


On cutters, there are two stay-sails but the inner one is called the
jib. At any rate, a jib doesn't have a mast AFAIK.

I suggest that it will be rather difficult to design a jib, or
staysail for that matter, for a mast less vessel :-)

On the other hand, a "stay" sail is named that as it is set on a
"stay" rather than a spar or mast :-)
--

Cheers,

Right. So like the man said, a jib doesn't have a mast of its own.

Well, not in one sense. But on the other hand, the top end of the stay
needs to have something to tie it to :-)

Indeed - but what about a flying jib, which isn't a staysail, except
when it is?

I thought I had mentioned that :-)

But generally a staysail that can be set "flying" has a steel cable
"luff rope" and lacks "jib Hanks" so it probably can't be set on a
stay anyway :-)
--

Cheers,

John B.