spoke key wire gauge

On 5/31/2017 5:22 PM, Doug Landau wrote:
On Wednesday, May 31, 2017 at 3:02:34 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/31/2017 4:03 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, May 31, 2017 at 9:42:42 PM UTC+1, Ian Field wrote:
"Andre Jute" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 8:08:09 PM UTC+1, Ian Field wrote:
"Emanuel Berg" wrote in message
...
What are the digits on the spoke key?

It seems 14 and 15 are those mostly used on the bikes
I see.

Here is what units(1) has in
/usr/share/units/definitions.units , but it seems none
of those match my spoke key. (?)

Some slots are very wide by the way - perhaps to be
used on MC spokes?

Some sports cars also have spoked wheels. Usually short very heavy gauge
spokes.

If you mean the Dunlop wheels found on Jaguar of a certain age, and
Borrani on Maserati of the same age, those are sturdy precisely because of
their short spokes. If the car is neglected, though, any corrosion in
those wheels can be either expensive or lethal,

I assumed everyone would get that without spelling it out - was I wrong?

It's possible. Most cyclist are probably too young ever to have seen a real automobile wire wheel, never mind handled one. Ask Muzi what's the average age of the little English sports car masochists. -- AJ


I'm no expert but I'm considered young in that crowd.

BTW wire wheels[1] are cute and retro but inefficient in so
many ways besides being undependable. Add in rust, inner
tubes etc and pressed steel wheels are the logical choice
(modern light alloy wheels even more).

[1]1965 MGB


Hmm. Jobst said that during cooling, cast wheels contract, so there is residual tension in the spokes of cast wheels. So, do you really think there is any difference?


When I was young, car shops had prominent signs, "not
responsible for alloy wheels" because they were brittle,
porous and undependable on tire changing machines.

Alloys and fabrication techniques have come a long way.
Compare Alan cast aluminum lugs to today's modern hydroform
aluminum tube, etc. Similarly, crank arm fractures have
declined dramatically, even though absolute numbers of
aluminum cranks are much higher now. These are natural
engineering advancements in materials and fabrication;
rigor, not magic.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 5/31/2017 6:42 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/31/2017 5:22 PM, Doug Landau wrote:
On Wednesday, May 31, 2017 at 3:02:34 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/31/2017 4:03 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, May 31, 2017 at 9:42:42 PM UTC+1, Ian Field wrote:
"Andre Jute" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 8:08:09 PM UTC+1, Ian Field wrote:
"Emanuel Berg" wrote in message
...
What are the digits on the spoke key?

It seems 14 and 15 are those mostly used on the bikes
I see.

Here is what units(1) has in
/usr/share/units/definitions.units , but it seems none
of those match my spoke key. (?)

Some slots are very wide by the way - perhaps to be
used on MC spokes?

Some sports cars also have spoked wheels. Usually short very
heavy gauge
spokes.

If you mean the Dunlop wheels found on Jaguar of a certain age, and
Borrani on Maserati of the same age, those are sturdy precisely
because of
their short spokes. If the car is neglected, though, any corrosion in
those wheels can be either expensive or lethal,

I assumed everyone would get that without spelling it out - was I
wrong?

It's possible. Most cyclist are probably too young ever to have seen
a real automobile wire wheel, never mind handled one. Ask Muzi
what's the average age of the little English sports car masochists.
-- AJ


I'm no expert but I'm considered young in that crowd.

BTW wire wheels[1] are cute and retro but inefficient in so
many ways besides being undependable. Add in rust, inner
tubes etc and pressed steel wheels are the logical choice
(modern light alloy wheels even more).

[1]1965 MGB


Hmm. Jobst said that during cooling, cast wheels contract, so there
is residual tension in the spokes of cast wheels. So, do you really
think there is any difference?


When I was young, car shops had prominent signs, "not responsible for
alloy wheels" because they were brittle, porous and undependable on tire
changing machines.

Alloys and fabrication techniques have come a long way. Compare Alan
cast aluminum lugs to today's modern hydroform aluminum tube, etc.
Similarly, crank arm fractures have declined dramatically, even though
absolute numbers of aluminum cranks are much higher now. These are
natural engineering advancements in materials and fabrication; rigor,
not magic.

Thank God for engineers!


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Wed, 31 May 2017 07:35:59 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 5/30/2017 9:17 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 31 May 2017 03:21:37 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

John B. writes:
-snip gauges-

I had a English machinist work for me once who had worked for a
British tank (as in war weapon) maker who told a story about his
company building a tank to NATO standard drawings. After working for a
month it was found that the turret wouldn't fit the body of the tank
because the number of decimal places used to convert the metric
measurements to inch measurements was different from one part to
another.

Hence the well-worn quip, "Close enough for government work"

When I lived in Maine the saying was "Good enough for a fish boat :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Wednesday, May 31, 2017 at 3:23:00 PM UTC-7, Doug Landau wrote:
On Wednesday, May 31, 2017 at 3:02:34 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/31/2017 4:03 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, May 31, 2017 at 9:42:42 PM UTC+1, Ian Field wrote:
"Andre Jute" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 8:08:09 PM UTC+1, Ian Field wrote:
"Emanuel Berg" wrote in message
...
What are the digits on the spoke key?

It seems 14 and 15 are those mostly used on the bikes
I see.

Here is what units(1) has in
/usr/share/units/definitions.units , but it seems none
of those match my spoke key. (?)

Some slots are very wide by the way - perhaps to be
used on MC spokes?

Some sports cars also have spoked wheels. Usually short very heavy gauge
spokes.

If you mean the Dunlop wheels found on Jaguar of a certain age, and
Borrani on Maserati of the same age, those are sturdy precisely because of
their short spokes. If the car is neglected, though, any corrosion in
those wheels can be either expensive or lethal,

I assumed everyone would get that without spelling it out - was I wrong?

It's possible. Most cyclist are probably too young ever to have seen a real automobile wire wheel, never mind handled one. Ask Muzi what's the average age of the little English sports car masochists. -- AJ


I'm no expert but I'm considered young in that crowd.

BTW wire wheels[1] are cute and retro but inefficient in so
many ways besides being undependable. Add in rust, inner
tubes etc and pressed steel wheels are the logical choice
(modern light alloy wheels even more).

[1]1965 MGB

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Hmm. Jobst said that during cooling, cast wheels contract, so there is residual tension in the spokes of cast wheels. So, do you really think there is any difference?

Absolutely not. Cooling a casting the includes what could very loosely be considered spokes does NOT put additional pressure on the spokes. The entire casting shrinks equally.

On Wednesday, May 31, 2017 at 4:04:34 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/31/2017 6:42 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/31/2017 5:22 PM, Doug Landau wrote:
On Wednesday, May 31, 2017 at 3:02:34 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/31/2017 4:03 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, May 31, 2017 at 9:42:42 PM UTC+1, Ian Field wrote:
"Andre Jute" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 8:08:09 PM UTC+1, Ian Field wrote:
"Emanuel Berg" wrote in message
...
What are the digits on the spoke key?

It seems 14 and 15 are those mostly used on the bikes
I see.

Here is what units(1) has in
/usr/share/units/definitions.units , but it seems none
of those match my spoke key. (?)

Some slots are very wide by the way - perhaps to be
used on MC spokes?

Some sports cars also have spoked wheels. Usually short very
heavy gauge
spokes.

If you mean the Dunlop wheels found on Jaguar of a certain age, and
Borrani on Maserati of the same age, those are sturdy precisely
because of
their short spokes. If the car is neglected, though, any corrosion in
those wheels can be either expensive or lethal,

I assumed everyone would get that without spelling it out - was I
wrong?

It's possible. Most cyclist are probably too young ever to have seen
a real automobile wire wheel, never mind handled one. Ask Muzi
what's the average age of the little English sports car masochists.
-- AJ


I'm no expert but I'm considered young in that crowd.

BTW wire wheels[1] are cute and retro but inefficient in so
many ways besides being undependable. Add in rust, inner
tubes etc and pressed steel wheels are the logical choice
(modern light alloy wheels even more).

[1]1965 MGB


Hmm. Jobst said that during cooling, cast wheels contract, so there
is residual tension in the spokes of cast wheels. So, do you really
think there is any difference?


When I was young, car shops had prominent signs, "not responsible for
alloy wheels" because they were brittle, porous and undependable on tire
changing machines.

Alloys and fabrication techniques have come a long way. Compare Alan
cast aluminum lugs to today's modern hydroform aluminum tube, etc.
Similarly, crank arm fractures have declined dramatically, even though
absolute numbers of aluminum cranks are much higher now. These are
natural engineering advancements in materials and fabrication; rigor,
not magic.

Thank God for engineers!

Jeez what an egotist.

"Doug Landau" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, May 31, 2017 at 3:02:34 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/31/2017 4:03 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, May 31, 2017 at 9:42:42 PM UTC+1, Ian Field wrote:
"Andre Jute" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 8:08:09 PM UTC+1, Ian Field wrote:
"Emanuel Berg" wrote in message
...
What are the digits on the spoke key?

It seems 14 and 15 are those mostly used on the bikes
I see.

Here is what units(1) has in
/usr/share/units/definitions.units , but it seems none
of those match my spoke key. (?)

Some slots are very wide by the way - perhaps to be
used on MC spokes?

Some sports cars also have spoked wheels. Usually short very heavy
gauge
spokes.

If you mean the Dunlop wheels found on Jaguar of a certain age, and
Borrani on Maserati of the same age, those are sturdy precisely
because of
their short spokes. If the car is neglected, though, any corrosion in
those wheels can be either expensive or lethal,

I assumed everyone would get that without spelling it out - was I
wrong?

It's possible. Most cyclist are probably too young ever to have seen a
real automobile wire wheel, never mind handled one. Ask Muzi what's the
average age of the little English sports car masochists. -- AJ


I'm no expert but I'm considered young in that crowd.

BTW wire wheels[1] are cute and retro but inefficient in so
many ways besides being undependable. Add in rust, inner
tubes etc and pressed steel wheels are the logical choice
(modern light alloy wheels even more).

[1]1965 MGB

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Hmm. Jobst said that during cooling, cast wheels contract, so there is
residual tension in the spokes of cast wheels. So, do you really think
there is any difference?

Quite a few years back, there was a fatal crash involving a police BMW
motorcycle caused by cast alloy wheel failure.

An inspection of the rest of the fleet turned up that most of them had
micro-fractures in the rims.

There was a lot of taunting about Germany leading the cause for type
approval testing.

I have now inspected a Cyclo multi-tool and it
has three slots for spoke nipples: one 0.127",
one 0.136", and one 14GE.

Another multi-tool I have from Asaklitt
("Swedish" brand in the low-middle range) has
a spoke key with three slots: 14G, 15G, and
0.136".

The spoke key that made me start this thread
has 10, 11, 12, 13 as well as two slots each of
14 and 15.

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Emanuel Berg wrote:

Another multi-tool I have from Asaklitt
("Swedish" brand in the low-middle range) has
a spoke key with three slots: 14G, 15G, and
0.136".

This spoke key is more than meets the eye!
I just now discovered four more slots for spoke
nipples. And those aren't even marked!
Like I said, low-middle range... (I suppose
a calipers is to inexact and there isn't enough
space for the micrometer to get inside to
determine what those are )

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

On Wednesday, May 31, 2017 at 9:17:18 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Wednesday, May 31, 2017 at 3:23:00 PM UTC-7, Doug Landau wrote:
On Wednesday, May 31, 2017 at 3:02:34 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/31/2017 4:03 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, May 31, 2017 at 9:42:42 PM UTC+1, Ian Field wrote:
"Andre Jute" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 8:08:09 PM UTC+1, Ian Field wrote:
"Emanuel Berg" wrote in message
...
What are the digits on the spoke key?

It seems 14 and 15 are those mostly used on the bikes
I see.

Here is what units(1) has in
/usr/share/units/definitions.units , but it seems none
of those match my spoke key. (?)

Some slots are very wide by the way - perhaps to be
used on MC spokes?

Some sports cars also have spoked wheels. Usually short very heavy gauge
spokes.

If you mean the Dunlop wheels found on Jaguar of a certain age, and
Borrani on Maserati of the same age, those are sturdy precisely because of
their short spokes. If the car is neglected, though, any corrosion in
those wheels can be either expensive or lethal,

I assumed everyone would get that without spelling it out - was I wrong?

It's possible. Most cyclist are probably too young ever to have seen a real automobile wire wheel, never mind handled one. Ask Muzi what's the average age of the little English sports car masochists. -- AJ


I'm no expert but I'm considered young in that crowd.

BTW wire wheels[1] are cute and retro but inefficient in so
many ways besides being undependable. Add in rust, inner
tubes etc and pressed steel wheels are the logical choice
(modern light alloy wheels even more).

[1]1965 MGB

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Hmm. Jobst said that during cooling, cast wheels contract, so there is residual tension in the spokes of cast wheels. So, do you really think there is any difference?

Absolutely not. Cooling a casting the includes what could very loosely be considered spokes does NOT put additional pressure on the spokes. The entire casting shrinks equally.

You know this?

On Thursday, June 1, 2017 at 3:02:16 PM UTC-7, Doug Landau wrote:
On Wednesday, May 31, 2017 at 9:17:18 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Wednesday, May 31, 2017 at 3:23:00 PM UTC-7, Doug Landau wrote:
On Wednesday, May 31, 2017 at 3:02:34 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/31/2017 4:03 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, May 31, 2017 at 9:42:42 PM UTC+1, Ian Field wrote:
"Andre Jute" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 8:08:09 PM UTC+1, Ian Field wrote:
"Emanuel Berg" wrote in message
...
What are the digits on the spoke key?

It seems 14 and 15 are those mostly used on the bikes
I see.

Here is what units(1) has in
/usr/share/units/definitions.units , but it seems none
of those match my spoke key. (?)

Some slots are very wide by the way - perhaps to be
used on MC spokes?

Some sports cars also have spoked wheels. Usually short very heavy gauge
spokes.

If you mean the Dunlop wheels found on Jaguar of a certain age, and
Borrani on Maserati of the same age, those are sturdy precisely because of
their short spokes. If the car is neglected, though, any corrosion in
those wheels can be either expensive or lethal,

I assumed everyone would get that without spelling it out - was I wrong?

It's possible. Most cyclist are probably too young ever to have seen a real automobile wire wheel, never mind handled one. Ask Muzi what's the average age of the little English sports car masochists. -- AJ


I'm no expert but I'm considered young in that crowd.

BTW wire wheels[1] are cute and retro but inefficient in so
many ways besides being undependable. Add in rust, inner
tubes etc and pressed steel wheels are the logical choice
(modern light alloy wheels even more).

[1]1965 MGB

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Hmm. Jobst said that during cooling, cast wheels contract, so there is residual tension in the spokes of cast wheels. So, do you really think there is any difference?

Absolutely not. Cooling a casting the includes what could very loosely be considered spokes does NOT put additional pressure on the spokes. The entire casting shrinks equally.

You know this?

Doug - have you ever worked with casting metal? I have. You are implying that for some reason the cast spokes would cool differently than the rest of the casting - what gives you the idea that that would happen in a casting shop?