POL: local libertarians are upset that a local bike path has a speedlimit

http://groups.google.com/group/east-...a0e73cea835233

I posted on the local group last week, urging folks to take it easy--
as there have been some nasty roadie crashes this year, and I've heard
endless complaints from pedestrians who are getting yelled at by these
same type A dudes. This is a path through a defacto nature reserve--
there are surface street replacements with bike lanes if one wants to
hammer, FWIW.

So yesterday--I got chewed out twice by roadies because cops are now
out there enforcing the speed limit and they got caught. Not that
anyone is being ticketed--just told to please ease off. However--I
never called the cops--it was all the walkers who complained so much
that the traffic enforcement dudes came.

It's pretty funny how "victimy" people can get when simply asked to
comply with the most basic of traffic law--a speed limit. I'm trying
to get inside these folks heads--but can't. It's a vehicle, a road,
and a posted speed limit--and it's gettin' them down, man! Har har har
har!

landotter wrote:
http://groups.google.com/group/east-...a0e73cea835233

I posted on the local group last week, urging folks to take it easy--
as there have been some nasty roadie crashes this year, and I've heard
endless complaints from pedestrians who are getting yelled at by these
same type A dudes. This is a path through a defacto nature reserve--
there are surface street replacements with bike lanes if one wants to
hammer, FWIW.

So yesterday--I got chewed out twice by roadies because cops are now
out there enforcing the speed limit and they got caught. Not that
anyone is being ticketed--just told to please ease off. However--I
never called the cops--it was all the walkers who complained so much
that the traffic enforcement dudes came.

It's pretty funny how "victimy" people can get when simply asked to
comply with the most basic of traffic law--a speed limit. I'm trying
to get inside these folks heads--but can't. It's a vehicle, a road,
and a posted speed limit--and it's gettin' them down, man! Har har har
har!


Just like roads, I think there's two sides to every story. we have a
similar path here and I don't like riding it during the day because of
all the dog-walkers, people pushing strollers, and POBs. Not trying to
sound like a bike snob at all - but if these slower-moving people could
try to stay on the right hand side an allow enough room to pass,
everyone would get along a heck of a lot better. (hey, not that
different from driving on the freeway!) I'm not a speed demon by any
means, I would estimate my typical JRA speed anywhere from 15-22 MPHish
depending on which way I'm going relative to terrain.

Personally, I'd just as soon ride on the roads, and probably would do so
exclusively were it not for the fact that the MUP actually goes places I
want to go (e.g. yesterday I had to pick up an old wris****ch that I had
repaired, and the MUP brought me within two blocks of the jeweler's,
with fewer lights than staying on the road) and being an old railroad
ROW is an easier ride than some roads (less steep grades etc.)

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Don't get discouraged; it's just human nature. Every week there will be
somebody writing the letter to the editor to complain about getting a ticket
for breaking the law. They acknowledge they broke the law, but they always
put some "zinger" in like "don't the cops have anything better to do?" or
"why aren't they out chasing bank robbers?"

Pat in TX

On Aug 30, 7:31*am, landotter wrote:
http://groups.google.com/group/east-...m/thread/3da0e...

I posted on the local group last week, urging folks to take it easy--
as there have been some nasty roadie crashes this year, and I've heard
endless complaints from pedestrians who are getting yelled at by these
same type A dudes. This is a path through a defacto nature reserve--
there are surface street replacements with bike lanes if one wants to
hammer, FWIW.

So yesterday--I got chewed out twice by roadies because cops are now
out there enforcing the speed limit and they got caught. Not that
anyone is being ticketed--just told to please ease off. However--I
never called the cops--it was all the walkers who complained so much
that the traffic enforcement dudes came.

It's pretty funny how "victimy" people can get when simply asked to
comply with the most basic of traffic law--a speed limit. I'm trying
to get inside these folks heads--but can't. It's a vehicle, a road,
and a posted speed limit--and it's gettin' them down, man! Har har har
har!

Depends what the speed limit is. 20 is reasonable, 15 is not.

Pat wrote:
Don't get discouraged; it's just human nature. Every week there will be
somebody writing the letter to the editor to complain about getting a ticket
for breaking the law. They acknowledge they broke the law, but they always
put some "zinger" in like "don't the cops have anything better to do?" or
"why aren't they out chasing bank robbers?"

Pat in TX



The funny thing is - and this is in no way aimed at the OP - what's been
found a lot when police respond to citizen complaints speeding in a
residential neighborhood is that the complainants often end up being
among the first to be ticketed! (and that generally results in more
complaints...) There's a lesson in there somewhere...

whoever said humans were rational beings? not I...

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On Aug 30, 12:26*pm, Hank wrote:
On Aug 30, 7:31*am, landotter wrote:



http://groups.google.com/group/east-...m/thread/3da0e...

I posted on the local group last week, urging folks to take it easy--
as there have been some nasty roadie crashes this year, and I've heard
endless complaints from pedestrians who are getting yelled at by these
same type A dudes. This is a path through a defacto nature reserve--
there are surface street replacements with bike lanes if one wants to
hammer, FWIW.

So yesterday--I got chewed out twice by roadies because cops are now
out there enforcing the speed limit and they got caught. Not that
anyone is being ticketed--just told to please ease off. However--I
never called the cops--it was all the walkers who complained so much
that the traffic enforcement dudes came.

It's pretty funny how "victimy" people can get when simply asked to
comply with the most basic of traffic law--a speed limit. I'm trying
to get inside these folks heads--but can't. It's a vehicle, a road,
and a posted speed limit--and it's gettin' them down, man! Har har har
har!

Depends what the speed limit is. 20 is reasonable, 15 is not.

Why not? There's a parallel road route for folks that need to go fast.
It's five miles an hour over what's posted in our local alleys, which
are wider. 15 is a good clip for a non-racing bike. The local wannabes
don't usually go faster than 20 in their little pelotons, but they do
so very haphazardly.

On Aug 30, 12:20*pm, "Pat" wrote:
Don't get discouraged; it's just human nature. *Every week there will be
somebody writing the letter to the editor to complain about getting a ticket
for breaking the law. They acknowledge they broke the law, but they always
put some "zinger" in like "don't the cops have anything better to do?" or
"why aren't they out chasing bank robbers?"

Well, the paper contacted me and wanted to do a story on greenway
safety, but I declined. In the US, such "conversations' usually jut
become arguments over helmet law instead of changing behavior.The cat
I saw laid out last week drooling and unsure of his location in the
universe was wearing one--and that's all everybody needed to know that
asked me about it. "Thank God!" they commented on that fact, ignoring
the obvious that preventing heads from smacking pavement is the goal.
Oy.

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 14:21:45 -0400, RonSonic
wrote:

There are paths that you can blast on, and there are paths that
will be filled with easily distracted children, wobbly riders, joggers and first
time rollerbladers.

Well said.

Last week I had some work up North and I took Public Transportation
TO, but brought along the bike for BACK.

I happened to navigate a way to the Golden Gate Bridge and while that
was the main part of even biking back home, I found it to be a
_drag_.

It was a Tuesday afternoon, 3-5pm-ish and the crowds were out and the
West side of the bridge's walkway was closed to traffic. This meant
that all traffic, Both Directions mind you; foot, stroller, bike, etc
was crowded onto the East Walkway, the side away from the Ocean.

Every so often there would be pods of bikes that would be large enough
to be seen coming and the peds would draw to the right, but for the
most part it just made everybody uncomfortable as two directions at
two different speeds tried to get along.

Keep in mind there were at least three different kinds of bike riders
I could identify;

- Locals, but not hard core riders (minority)

- Renting Bike Tourists (Majority by slim margin)

- Hard Core Bike Riders (also a large contingent but inconvenienced by
the 'civilians...)

The 'Sunday Riders' could deal pretty well, but the Renting folks
toddled along, all wobbly and not radiating _any_ confidence in those
around them that a collision wasn't imminent.

People tried their best to accommodate the rest but it seems a big
mistake to _ever_ close one side of the bride to foot/bike traffic.

If each side (West/Ocean side for Southbound & East/Bay side for
Northbound) had been available then Slower Traffic, Keep Right
wouldn't have been a problem.

They, (the Bridge PTB) will have some reason, but it can't be
justified by any logical explanation.


berk

On Aug 30, 2:21*pm, RonSonic wrote:


The problem isn't excess speed, the problem is unsafe riding in proximity to
others who did not volunteer to play your game.

I have never understood why anyone out to walk a dog would choose to walk along
a paved path.

I'm not a dog walker, but it's easy for me to understand.

What I do like about these paved paths is the aesthetics... or at
least, the lack of the ugliness and noise of motor vehicle traffic.
That ugliness is a constant part of normal life these days, and it's
nice to get to a place where its absent.

(The whole world used to be without car noise. Now we have to go to
"special places" to escape it. And in my experience, you need to be
up to a mile from a major road to actually get away from traffic
noise.)

We can either lobby to change the rules or we can deal. Screaming obscenities is
not much of an answer. Same with little kids on training wheels and their mom on
the electric bike trying to keep up. They have as much right to the path as we
and we could act like grown-ups and accomodate them gracefully.

Wise words.

I still prefer to avoid most such paths most of the time, despite the
peaceful lack of car noise. Just among my road riding friends, the
number of broken bones and hospital visits per mile of path riding is
far, far greater than the number per mile of road riding.

Best riding for me is a quiet country lane. Second best is a
reasonably quiet city street. Bike paths are pretty far down the list
- maybe just above a busy suburban arterial.

- Frank Krygowski