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Stronger rubber cement?



 
 
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  #61  
Old January 5th 17, 12:56 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH
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Posts: 2,011
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On Wednesday, January 4, 2017 at 6:54:13 PM UTC-5, DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH wrote:
contact cement can renew with acetone or MEK.

again, the can/tube closure is done thus

tube.....squeeze air ot rollup bottom squarely until bottom tube foldind dams against the remaining interior substance....that is oozing out the nozzle

for the oozing you have prepared a patch of grocery bar plastic, cleaned threads of nozzle and cap plus examening cap for washers, rings of dry substance...

squeeze oze of substance from nozzle by pushing on the bottom roll fold....you have a fold of rolled up bottom held against the substance bulge ...and COVER THE OOZE WITH PATCH THEN SCREW THE CAP ON TIGHT BUT DOAHN SPLIT THE CAP.

always keep caps in a cap bin. when the locktite cap blows away there's another in the bin.

||||||||||||

for the can clean threads, size patch n if necessary cut a small X in the middle for the cap brush n stalk.

test cap n threads

find the pipe wrench/channel locks

https://www.google.com/search?site=i...&q=channelocks

or large vise grips

cover opening with patch, or insert brush thru partch hole ....cover hole trying for a unfolded cover of threads from the patch ...

screw cap on ...and tighten slightly with the pliers.

remove cap ? with the pliers

IHS


grocery bag bag bag the one's from walmart or B&N
Ads
  #62  
Old January 5th 17, 12:58 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_6_]
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Posts: 2,202
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On Wed, 4 Jan 2017 14:50:23 +0000 (UTC), David Scheidt
wrote:

John B. wrote:
:On Wed, 4 Jan 2017 02:47:50 +0000 (UTC), David Scheidt
wrote:

:John B. wrote:
::On Tue, 03 Jan 2017 17:04:40 -0800, Joerg
::wrote:
:
::Gentlemen,
::
::Is there something stronger than the usual rubber cement in the patch
::kits? Ideally something that won't dry out so fast or where multiple
::cheap small tubes are available.
::
::The reason is that I sometimes have larger holes from side wall
::blow-outs. Not inch-long gashes but one or two tenths of an inch long.
::The tubes I use are super thick and, therefore, expensive. $15-20 each
::and that's not something to be thrown out lightly. Instead of the li'l
::REMA patches I need to use thicker rubber from an older sacrified tube
::but this has to be vulcanized/cemented really well.
:
::My LBS usually has small sealed tubes of glue. When I see them I buy
::four or five and when I open a sealed tube, in the kit on the bike, I
::replace it with another sealed one as find the glue has dried up is
::not quite so much of a catastrophe at home :-)
:
::Or you might try contact cement what I suspect is what is in the usual
::tire patching kit.
:
::By the way, "vulcanizing" implies the use of heat, and sulphur, and I
:
:Vulcanizing may have the connotation of involving heat, but it's a chemical
:reaction, which results in the sulphur in the rubber becoming
:crosslinked.

:It is a chemical reaction that occurs very slowly and incompletely
:without heat. Try mixing raw latex with powdered sulphur if you don't
:believe it.

Yes, but fortunately the world has smart chemists who have invented
processes that work better than sulphur and heat do. Vulcanizing
accelerators are used in pretty much every rubber production process,
because it gives better results, is faster, and requires less energy.


Yes, you are correct in that the original vulcanizing system is no
longer used. But the term, seemingly originating in the 1800's, does
rather imply the Encyclopedia Britannica description, the heating of
rubber in the presence of sulphur.
--
cheers,

John B.

  #63  
Old January 5th 17, 12:58 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH
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Posts: 2,011
Default Stronger rubber cement?

cements with acetone or mek can renew with acetone or mek....look for the MSDS
  #66  
Old January 5th 17, 02:16 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
DougC
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Posts: 1,276
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On 1/3/2017 7:04 PM, Joerg wrote:
Gentlemen,

Is there something stronger than the usual rubber cement in the patch
kits? Ideally something that won't dry out so fast or where multiple
cheap small tubes are available.

The reason is that I sometimes have larger holes from side wall
blow-outs. Not inch-long gashes but one or two tenths of an inch long.
The tubes I use are super thick and, therefore, expensive. $15-20 each
and that's not something to be thrown out lightly. Instead of the li'l
REMA patches I need to use thicker rubber from an older sacrified tube
but this has to be vulcanized/cemented really well.


Read some of the responses, not all.

I dunno anything stronger than rubber cement. It is dissolved rubber?

The little bicycle tubes of rubber cement are a limited-lifetime thing.
Good for maybe 6 months left sealed; maybe a couple weeks once they're
opened. Leaving them in a car on a summer day can ruin them...

There's just magical ethers that waft out once you pierce the seal, a
lot of glues have this issue. PVC glue is the same way. They sell these
little 12-oz jars at the hardware store, with the metal lid screwed on
so tight that even a strong man needs channel-lock pliers to get it off.
And once it's off, the glue will "dry out" in 3-4 days, no matter how
hard you screw the same lid back on.

Shoe Goo is supposed to be just liquid latex with an aromatic solvent in
it.


  #67  
Old January 5th 17, 05:32 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Phil Lee
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Posts: 248
Default Stronger rubber cement?

Joerg considered Wed, 04 Jan 2017
07:27:48 -0800 the perfect time to write:

On 2017-01-03 20:23, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 03 Jan 2017 17:04:40 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

Is there something stronger than the usual rubber cement in the patch
kits? Ideally something that won't dry out so fast or where multiple
cheap small tubes are available.


Contact cement. It's a neoprene rubber based goo that remains fairly
flexible if applied in a very thin layer. Smear some on both the tire
and the patch, let air dry for at least 10 minutes (longer is better),
and stick together with a little compression pressure. I've used a
roller, two blocks of wood and a C-clamp, and beating on the sandwich
with a hammer. They all work.

Rubber cement is a latex rubber based goo. Otherwise, it's similar to
contact cement. It also uses many of the same solvents as contact
cement. Bicycle patches use heptane, naphtha, or a mixture of both.
Rubber and contact cement use these or other organic solvents. There's
also a water based version of rubber cement.

Contact cement solvents won't evaporate as fast as rubber cement
because the contact cement is thicker in the bottle and forms an
effective barrier. However, the solvents will rapidly evaporate if
the can, bottle, or tube is left in the sun.

Contact cement on bicycle tubes is nothing new:
http://www.bicitoro.com/how-to-glue-inner-tubes/
However, if do some Googling, you'll probably find testimonials from
people trying contact cement, and claiming it doesn't work. The
problem is that while rubber cement vulcanizing patches require
cleaning and sanding before applying, some people seem to forget to do
these things when using contact cement.

I've also tried glue used for patching my wet suit:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Mcnett-14114-Seal-Cement-2-Oz-Tube-Black/21970283
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9QK0yF540c
https://www.google.com/search?q=neoprene+wetsuit+glue&tbm=isch
http://www.bodylinewetsuits.co.uk/2015/01/12/using-black-witch-neoprene-glue/
I've only done one tire with wet suit glue and found that it didn't
last. However, that was in a rush, with little preparation, no
clamping, and I used a piece of vinyl for the patch. I suspect I can
improve the bond if I were more organized and careful.

The reason is that I sometimes have larger holes from side wall
blow-outs. Not inch-long gashes but one or two tenths of an inch long.
The tubes I use are super thick and, therefore, expensive. $15-20 each
and that's not something to be thrown out lightly. Instead of the li'l
REMA patches I need to use thicker rubber from an older sacrified tube
but this has to be vulcanized/cemented really well.


Hmmm... contact cement is more expensive than rubber cement. If I had
to find something cheaper than rubber cement, methinks RTV (room
temperature vulcanizing rubber) would probably qualify. The catch is
that you might have to wait overnight for the RTV to harden.

Anyway, I suggest you sacrifice an old tube, cut it apart, cut some
slits, patch with the various available glues, and test the results
with a pull test, peel test, pressure test, and flexibility test.


I'll look into contact cement. Gene also suggested that. Cost is not so
much an issue but shelf life after opening is. The usual rubber cement
is toast only a few months after opening.

It also has to become a pliable connection because those cuts are on the
side walls. Ever since moving to tire liners plus thich tubes plus thick
tire surfaces I don't get "regular" flats via running surface punctures
anymore.


A useful tip for storing cans or bottles of such materials (including
paints, as well) is to store them upside down.
That way, any slight imperfection in the seal around the lid will fill
with the glue, paint, or whatever, and dry to form a perfect seal,
which will preserve the contents.
If you store it right side up, only the vapour will be seeping out of
any imperfections, and the contents will dry out.
The only downside is that it can get difficult to open, if the seal
was particularly bad to start with, as the glue or paint will stick
the lid on rather firmly. But that only happens in the case of a
container in which the contents would have dried out anyway, so you
haven't lost anything.
  #68  
Old January 5th 17, 05:36 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Phil Lee
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Posts: 248
Default Stronger rubber cement?

Joerg considered Wed, 04 Jan 2017
10:27:55 -0800 the perfect time to write:

On 2017-01-04 10:00, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 07:27:48 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

I'll look into contact cement. Gene also suggested that. Cost is not so
much an issue but shelf life after opening is. The usual rubber cement
is toast only a few months after opening.


I've had the same experience. The problem with the leaking bottles
and tubes seems to be related to heat. My squeeze tube of contact
cement doesn't last very long after it's used once, so I'm not sure
that looking for a better glue is the right answer. A better way to
prevent outgassing seems to be a better approach. As David Scheidt
suggests, buying the rubber cement or whatever in a can lasts much
longer. I keep my can inside a plastic Ziploc bag, which seems to
help. I've considered putting it inside a glass jar, and pressurizing
the jar to above the vapor pressure of the solvent to limit loss by
evaporation. I've done this with some chemicals and drugs, but never
tried it with glue.

Also, be sure to test the strength of your contact cement joint.
There's nothing stronger than a vulcanized bond, so I'm fairly sure
that contact cement will not be as strong as a proper vulcanizing
patch. Whether it's strong enough is the question.


I'll ask the automotive place for vulcanizing fluid as David suggested.

As for preventing oxygen to get at it I am wondering whether CO2 would
work. I started making beer to trapping some of the CO2 generated during
fermentation shoud be easy. It comes out of the air lock.


The problem isn't oxygen getting in, it's the volatile solvent getting
out.
  #69  
Old January 5th 17, 05:47 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Phil Lee
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Posts: 248
Default Stronger rubber cement?

Joerg considered Wed, 04 Jan 2017
07:38:10 -0800 the perfect time to write:

On 2017-01-04 01:19, Tosspot wrote:
On 04/01/17 01:04, Joerg wrote:
Gentlemen,

Is there something stronger than the usual rubber cement in the patch
kits? Ideally something that won't dry out so fast or where multiple
cheap small tubes are available.

The reason is that I sometimes have larger holes from side wall
blow-outs. Not inch-long gashes but one or two tenths of an inch long.
The tubes I use are super thick and, therefore, expensive. $15-20 each
and that's not something to be thrown out lightly. Instead of the li'l
REMA patches I need to use thicker rubber from an older sacrified tube
but this has to be vulcanized/cemented really well.


UK, but must be available all over

http://www.tyre-equipment.co.uk/acat...r-Patches.html


Go up to 180mmx95mm and are less than a UKP per patch.


Thanks! Time for a trip to the autoparts store since there is

http://www.vipal-usa.com/repair_line_e.html

Looks like a Brazilian company.


The 30mm patches are 13 squids per 100! Surely, surely even Joerg can't
get through that amount that fast!


I hardly get flats but when I do they are hardcore. Typically caused by
those notorious #%&^!! flimsy side walls of bicycle tires. Which is also
why I am always on the lookout for tires with better side walls. For the
MTB I found that Asian ones do better in that domain but haven't found
any yet for the road bike. Will try CST, their Conquistare tires look
promising but I could not find reviews.

Heavier tires are generally better and finally those appeared for 29".
For 700c it's still slim pickens.


You do know that 29" ARE 700c, both using a bead seat diameter of
622mm?
It's just that one description is used for MTB and the other for road
use.
  #70  
Old January 5th 17, 05:52 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_6_]
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Posts: 2,202
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On Thu, 05 Jan 2017 04:36:02 +0000, Phil Lee
wrote:

Joerg considered Wed, 04 Jan 2017
10:27:55 -0800 the perfect time to write:

On 2017-01-04 10:00, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 07:27:48 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

I'll look into contact cement. Gene also suggested that. Cost is not so
much an issue but shelf life after opening is. The usual rubber cement
is toast only a few months after opening.

I've had the same experience. The problem with the leaking bottles
and tubes seems to be related to heat. My squeeze tube of contact
cement doesn't last very long after it's used once, so I'm not sure
that looking for a better glue is the right answer. A better way to
prevent outgassing seems to be a better approach. As David Scheidt
suggests, buying the rubber cement or whatever in a can lasts much
longer. I keep my can inside a plastic Ziploc bag, which seems to
help. I've considered putting it inside a glass jar, and pressurizing
the jar to above the vapor pressure of the solvent to limit loss by
evaporation. I've done this with some chemicals and drugs, but never
tried it with glue.

Also, be sure to test the strength of your contact cement joint.
There's nothing stronger than a vulcanized bond, so I'm fairly sure
that contact cement will not be as strong as a proper vulcanizing
patch. Whether it's strong enough is the question.


I'll ask the automotive place for vulcanizing fluid as David suggested.

As for preventing oxygen to get at it I am wondering whether CO2 would
work. I started making beer to trapping some of the CO2 generated during
fermentation shoud be easy. It comes out of the air lock.


The problem isn't oxygen getting in, it's the volatile solvent getting
out.


A pail of water ?
--
cheers,

John B.

 




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