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#21
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Nearly got into an accident
Roger Zoul wrote:
"PatTX" .net... I got to thinking, "How could I be safer" and the only thing I can think of is to check in my mirror for overtaking drivers each and every time as I approach a cross street. Can anyone think of something else? Glad you're OK, Pat. I think you should definitely look for overtaking driving each and every time you pass a cross street. I thought everyone did this. Also, you should also consider moving to the left [to center of lane] a bit if the traffic allows. I think being too close to the right edge of the road can result in drivers on the cross street not seeing you. Of course this works mainly when bicycling in downtown traffic at about the same speed as cars are moving, otherwise it's obstructionist and causes other bad responses from motorists. How is it obstructionist to move to the left a bit if the traffic allows? It's kinda hard [not to mention dangerous] to move into traffic the traffic doesn't allow it. Watch some bicycle messenger videos. Traffic on local main streets don't reach 20mph most of the time. On rare occasions I get crowded by drifting drivers, so I slap the car on the roof as a wake up. It works. Jobst Brandt |
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#22
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Nearly got into an accident
Roger Zoul wrote:
no, she was just plain old stupid, she went into the other lane to pass me then braked making a sharp turn right in front of me; I was doing about 35kph when this happened; there was no reason she had to pass me When many people see a bicycle ahead of them, they've just gotta get ahead of it. They've /just gotta/. It's all really quite predictable and expectable. It's like some sort of innate instinct people have. Even fellow cyclists aren't immune to this effect -- if you're stopped at a red traffic light, some of them will butt-in in front of you and the stop line, to wait out the light. And if you're walking your bike on the sidewalk, pedestrians behind you will bust their asses to get ahead of you. I don't know why it is, but so many people see bicycles as obstructions and obstacles, even if you're going faster than they are. Even if they're riding bikes themselves. When riders realize this, we become armed with an enhanced ability to interact with, and even predict the movements of surrounding traffic. So, there actually /is/ a reason she "had" to pass you -- it was pathologically hardwired in her psyche. As you said, "Even if they're riding bikes themselves." This is apparent when I read of other car/bicycle interactions on this NG. I think many wreck.bike readers should take lessons from bike messengers who don't have these problems. In city traffic, I have been riding in that style for many years without problem. I am surprised that police cruisers ignore my law violations (as righteous bicyclists call it). On top of that, as I reported on one of these topics, I found London (GB) traffic even more accommodating in that matter. I fear the tone of my posts might sound like I'm calling you stupid; please believe me, I have no such intention. Not to worry, the "take the lane" riders volunteer to raise their hands when a roll call of stupid riders is taken. I don't understand why so many riders feel so superior to their fellow humans when riding bicycles. The driver who cut you off was being stupid, because she was acting in a thoughtless, "reptilian brain" mode. I'm just saying: that's how a lot of people act on the streets. It doesn't hurt to be aware of that. We can often even use it to our advantage. I call it "reading their minds" but it really isn't anything so esoteric. In fact it's dirt simple. People are so predictable. That's how advertising agencies and casinos make so much money. Well said! That said, there certainly are occasions where synchronicity works against us, and we wind up as sitting ducks for inescapably imminent consequences that seem to be aimed by Fate directly at us. I'm glad you came out of the incident unscathed. Unscathed, but was anything learned? In such a position I don't watch the car but rather the driver's head and direction of attention as well as the steering angle of the cars wheels... and don't wear headphones because there is much information about cars approaching from behind in tire and engine sounds. Hmm... so you don't wear a mirror but yet you have the ability to watch every driver's head and direction of attention as well as the steering angle of the cars wheels... in traffic for all cars coming up behind you? I guess this is an example of the Jobst Brandt superiorty at work. Stop concocting fairy tales. Cars behind cannot cut off a bicyclist, not until the car is ahead or at least abreast of the bicycle. It is at this time that critical observations can be made. A mirror is not useful in assessing when a driver will make a right turn or dive into a parking space, but careful observations can. I'll bet you've never seen a city bike messenger with a rear view mirror. Jobst Brandt |
#23
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Nearly got into an accident
In article ,
"PatTX" writes: : If you ride further left, you're much more likely to be noticed; and : if that fails, you've got more room to escape. (The best counter-move : to a right hook is an instant turn hard right, staying inside the : car's path - and maybe beating on the side of the car when you're : within reach!) : : If there's any hint a following vehicle may turn right across my path, : I move even further left. Control the lane, and wake them up. And on : the few instances when someone's attempted a right hook despite my : lane taking, I've been able to stop them by yelling at them and waving : them back. : : I do use a mirror, too, and near intersections, I check nearly every : car that's approaching from behind for just that reason. But keep : track of the forward direction too! : : - Frank Krygowski Thanks for the idea of quickly turning right with the car. I hadn't thought of that. I don't know if it makes a difference with the idea of using a mirror at intersections, but this was a T intersection to the right. The road had two wide lanes and most cars on this particular road will move into the left lane to pass. That's why I wasn't "taking the lane"--because people hereabouts just automatically move into the other lane to pass a bicyclist. I was lulled by my past experiences riding on this particular road out in the suburbs.... The "Instant Turn" of which Frank speaks is a specific technique that isn't quite as easy as it sounds. It involves initially quickly countersteering your bike toward the car in order to get enough lean to make a ~tight~ turn away from the car. The part about steering toward the car is the hard part -- it takes some conscious effort to overcome our instinctive reactions to avoid the car. But it's still a worthwhile technique to acquire through practice (in an empty parking lot, with no cars around.) The terms: "instant turn" "rock dodge" "panic stop" are probably all quite Google-able. Those are good skills to have. I believe they're covered in Frank's Bicycling Life website http://www.bicyclinglife.com cheers, Tom -- Nothing is safe from me. I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca |
#24
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#25
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Nearly got into an accident
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#26
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Nearly got into an accident
Stephen Harding wrote:
Yes, I'm OK but the rest of traffic is all morons. I guess the bicycle superiority complex common. The rear view mirror folks seem to be at the head of the group in this respect. Notice that there are no rear view mirrors seen in bicycle races. I notice the racers don't wear trousers, or tevas or have racks on their bikes either. They also by and large don't seem to have to deal with motor traffic like non-racer/commuter/tourers do. I'm regarding the rear view mirror on my bikes with higher and higher esteem the more and more I ride in traffic. No greater zealot than a convert! Jobst Brandt |
#27
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Nearly got into an accident
On Dec 14, 6:13*pm, wrote:
Cars behind cannot cut off a bicyclist, not until the car is ahead or at least abreast of the bicycle. *It is at this time that critical observations can be made. *A mirror is not useful in assessing when a driver will make a right turn or dive into a parking space, but careful observations can. A mirror is very useful for seeing a right turn signal. While many motorists haven't figured out how to operate turn signals, some have, and I get early warning of their behavior. And I find non-signaling motorists can often be read by a sort of traffic analog to "body language." I recall one motorist who came up behind me in a hurry, slowed to my speed, then suddenly accelerated to pass me just before an intersection. I suspected he was a right hook in the making. As it was, I moved a bit further left and yelled at him while shaking my head, and he braked to turn right behind me. *I'll bet you've never seen a city bike messenger with a rear view mirror. I've also seen them eschew multiple gears and brakes. No thanks, they're not my role models. - Frank Krygowski |
#28
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Nearly got into an accident
Frank Krygowski wrote:
Cars behind cannot cut off a bicyclist, not until the car is ahead or at least abreast of the bicycle. Â*It is at this time that critical observations can be made. Â*A mirror is not useful in assessing when a driver will make a right turn or dive into a parking space, but careful observations can. A mirror is very useful for seeing a right turn signal. While many motorists haven't figured out how to operate turn signals, some have, and I get early warning of their behavior. And I find non-signaling motorists can often be read by a sort of traffic analog to "body language." I recall one motorist who came up behind me in a hurry, slowed to my speed, then suddenly accelerated to pass me just before an intersection. I suspected he was a right hook in the making. As it was, I moved a bit further left and yelled at him while shaking my head, and he braked to turn right behind me. I'll bet you've never seen a city bike messenger with a rear view mirror. I've also seen them eschew multiple gears and brakes. No thanks, they're not my role models. I don't see why you think I am suggesting them as role models. The point is that with a degree of natural skills the apparent hazard of bicycling is not what is presented here. It can be done and that it even works without gears or brakes underscores that. If your better equipped bicycle doesn't meet the demand then the failure must be elsewhere. Jobst Brandt |
#29
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Nearly got into an accident
wrote in message ... Roger Zoul wrote: no, she was just plain old stupid, she went into the other lane to pass me then braked making a sharp turn right in front of me; I was doing about 35kph when this happened; there was no reason she had to pass me When many people see a bicycle ahead of them, they've just gotta get ahead of it. They've /just gotta/. It's all really quite predictable and expectable. It's like some sort of innate instinct people have. Even fellow cyclists aren't immune to this effect -- if you're stopped at a red traffic light, some of them will butt-in in front of you and the stop line, to wait out the light. And if you're walking your bike on the sidewalk, pedestrians behind you will bust their asses to get ahead of you. I don't know why it is, but so many people see bicycles as obstructions and obstacles, even if you're going faster than they are. Even if they're riding bikes themselves. When riders realize this, we become armed with an enhanced ability to interact with, and even predict the movements of surrounding traffic. So, there actually /is/ a reason she "had" to pass you -- it was pathologically hardwired in her psyche. As you said, "Even if they're riding bikes themselves." This is apparent when I read of other car/bicycle interactions on this NG. I think many wreck.bike readers should take lessons from bike messengers who don't have these problems. In city traffic, I have been riding in that style for many years without problem. I am surprised that police cruisers ignore my law violations (as righteous bicyclists call it). On top of that, as I reported on one of these topics, I found London (GB) traffic even more accommodating in that matter. I fear the tone of my posts might sound like I'm calling you stupid; please believe me, I have no such intention. Not to worry, the "take the lane" riders volunteer to raise their hands when a roll call of stupid riders is taken. I don't understand why so many riders feel so superior to their fellow humans when riding bicycles. The driver who cut you off was being stupid, because she was acting in a thoughtless, "reptilian brain" mode. I'm just saying: that's how a lot of people act on the streets. It doesn't hurt to be aware of that. We can often even use it to our advantage. I call it "reading their minds" but it really isn't anything so esoteric. In fact it's dirt simple. People are so predictable. That's how advertising agencies and casinos make so much money. Well said! That said, there certainly are occasions where synchronicity works against us, and we wind up as sitting ducks for inescapably imminent consequences that seem to be aimed by Fate directly at us. I'm glad you came out of the incident unscathed. Unscathed, but was anything learned? In such a position I don't watch the car but rather the driver's head and direction of attention as well as the steering angle of the cars wheels... and don't wear headphones because there is much information about cars approaching from behind in tire and engine sounds. Hmm... so you don't wear a mirror but yet you have the ability to watch every driver's head and direction of attention as well as the steering angle of the cars wheels... in traffic for all cars coming up behind you? I guess this is an example of the Jobst Brandt superiorty at work. Stop concocting fairy tales. Cars behind cannot cut off a bicyclist, not until the car is ahead or at least abreast of the bicycle. It is at this time that critical observations can be made. A mirror is not useful in assessing when a driver will make a right turn or dive into a parking space, but careful observations can. I'll bet you've never seen a city bike messenger with a rear view mirror. Jobst Brandt Stop concocting fairy tales. When a car is passing you up you cannot see the drivers head and direction of attention as well as steering angle of cars wheels in such a fashion as to avoid the right hook. And then do this repeatedly for car after car in traffic situations. Unless, of course, you are some kind of human cybernetic organism. |
#30
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Nearly got into an accident
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