|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#31
|
|||
|
|||
Questions about value of bicycles.
On 4/15/2021 10:36 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, April 14, 2021 at 7:12:05 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Wed, 14 Apr 2021 08:08:42 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: On Tuesday, April 13, 2021 at 7:55:50 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 16:15:22 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: On Tuesday, April 13, 2021 at 4:07:45 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 09:07:14 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 6:56:34 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 15:45:40 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 9:50:26 AM UTC-7, sms wrote: On 4/12/2021 8:56 AM, Lou Holtman wrote: snip I sold a couple of bikes just before Covid19 and I discovered that it is hard to sell a bike via the Dutch craiglist for a reasonable price if it doesn't have disc brakes, if not CF and for a ATB also is not 29". I think your bike would go for around 1500-200- euro over here. I tried to sell this bike: https://photos.app.goo.gl/1dSJW6DxfgCTYJxXA In the U.S., nearly everyone buying a new higher-end road bike wants disc brakes whether it makes sense or not. Electronic shifting is not necessarily seen as a plus by many buyers because of the hassle of battery charging, and the extra complexity that it adds. Same in the U.S. regarding ATBs, a 26" wheeled ATB has almost no value, though 27.5" sells well for shorter riders. Tom needs to find all this out for himself, everyone here explaining reality to him will have no effect. It's not uncommon for people to have unrealistic ideas about what their used stuff is worth. I will ask you again Scharf - what do you know about bicycles. Over and over again, on this group you are completely unable to make a single technically correct comment on bicycles. And you have problems installing a Bottom Bracket and haven't yet solved the problems with the head bearings... So, what do you know about bicycles? John, carefully explain to everyone here what you know about high end bicycles and how you learned it? The bottom bracket tool for installing the BB did not get shipped with it and a Park Tool substitute cost more than simply taking it to the shop. What makes you think that the headset once received didn't get easily installed? Please tell me how you now choose a correct headset with about two dozen standards? Tell us Tom what is the mechanical difference between a high end and a low end bicycle? Disregarding the wheels they both have two moving parts and you had/have problems assembling both of them? -- Cheers, John B. If that's what you think we need no longer include you in any conversation regarding modern technology. What modern "technology" are we talking about here? The bottom bracket? Two bearings and a shaft through the bearings? Or the incredibly complex head bearings? You know, the gizmo that has two bearings with the tube sticking through them? As an aside, Tom's "modern technology has been used on bicycles for at least a hundred and thirty years :-) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...0s_a nd_1890s -- Cheers, John B. Yes John, you have shown over and over just how much you know about anything with two wheels on it. Well Tommy I built a bike from the raw tubes and lugs and remarkably I had no problems whatsoever installing the bottom bracket and the head bearings. And I don't have 200 pounds of tools to cart around either. Tell everyone here what an acetylene torch weighs with the bottles. There are a lot of cylinder sizes, including mini 'wearable' setups (those are not shown in this link). https://weldersequipmentinc.com/uplo...237239.jpg?706 -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
Ads |
#32
|
|||
|
|||
Questions about value of bicycles.
On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 9:36:49 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/15/2021 10:36 AM, Tom Kunich wrote: On Wednesday, April 14, 2021 at 7:12:05 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Wed, 14 Apr 2021 08:08:42 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: On Tuesday, April 13, 2021 at 7:55:50 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 16:15:22 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: On Tuesday, April 13, 2021 at 4:07:45 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 09:07:14 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 6:56:34 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 15:45:40 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 9:50:26 AM UTC-7, sms wrote: On 4/12/2021 8:56 AM, Lou Holtman wrote: snip I sold a couple of bikes just before Covid19 and I discovered that it is hard to sell a bike via the Dutch craiglist for a reasonable price if it doesn't have disc brakes, if not CF and for a ATB also is not 29".. I think your bike would go for around 1500-200- euro over here. I tried to sell this bike: https://photos.app.goo.gl/1dSJW6DxfgCTYJxXA In the U.S., nearly everyone buying a new higher-end road bike wants disc brakes whether it makes sense or not. Electronic shifting is not necessarily seen as a plus by many buyers because of the hassle of battery charging, and the extra complexity that it adds. Same in the U.S. regarding ATBs, a 26" wheeled ATB has almost no value, though 27.5" sells well for shorter riders. Tom needs to find all this out for himself, everyone here explaining reality to him will have no effect. It's not uncommon for people to have unrealistic ideas about what their used stuff is worth. I will ask you again Scharf - what do you know about bicycles. Over and over again, on this group you are completely unable to make a single technically correct comment on bicycles. And you have problems installing a Bottom Bracket and haven't yet solved the problems with the head bearings... So, what do you know about bicycles? John, carefully explain to everyone here what you know about high end bicycles and how you learned it? The bottom bracket tool for installing the BB did not get shipped with it and a Park Tool substitute cost more than simply taking it to the shop. What makes you think that the headset once received didn't get easily installed? Please tell me how you now choose a correct headset with about two dozen standards? Tell us Tom what is the mechanical difference between a high end and a low end bicycle? Disregarding the wheels they both have two moving parts and you had/have problems assembling both of them? -- Cheers, John B. If that's what you think we need no longer include you in any conversation regarding modern technology. What modern "technology" are we talking about here? The bottom bracket? Two bearings and a shaft through the bearings? Or the incredibly complex head bearings? You know, the gizmo that has two bearings with the tube sticking through them? As an aside, Tom's "modern technology has been used on bicycles for at least a hundred and thirty years :-) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...0s_a nd_1890s -- Cheers, John B. Yes John, you have shown over and over just how much you know about anything with two wheels on it. Well Tommy I built a bike from the raw tubes and lugs and remarkably I had no problems whatsoever installing the bottom bracket and the head bearings. And I don't have 200 pounds of tools to cart around either. Tell everyone here what an acetylene torch weighs with the bottles. There are a lot of cylinder sizes, including mini 'wearable' setups (those are not shown in this link). https://weldersequipmentinc.com/uplo...237239.jpg?706 China Freight -- and not the low-cost option, either. https://www.harborfreight.com/portab...&cid=go_social About 20 years ago, they were selling something similar at Costco -- along with some cheap Lincoln stick welders. -- Jay Beattie. |
#33
|
|||
|
|||
Questions about value of bicycles.
On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 10:08:52 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 9:36:49 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote: On 4/15/2021 10:36 AM, Tom Kunich wrote: On Wednesday, April 14, 2021 at 7:12:05 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Wed, 14 Apr 2021 08:08:42 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: On Tuesday, April 13, 2021 at 7:55:50 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 16:15:22 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: On Tuesday, April 13, 2021 at 4:07:45 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 09:07:14 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 6:56:34 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 15:45:40 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 9:50:26 AM UTC-7, sms wrote: On 4/12/2021 8:56 AM, Lou Holtman wrote: snip I sold a couple of bikes just before Covid19 and I discovered that it is hard to sell a bike via the Dutch craiglist for a reasonable price if it doesn't have disc brakes, if not CF and for a ATB also is not 29". I think your bike would go for around 1500-200- euro over here. I tried to sell this bike: https://photos.app.goo.gl/1dSJW6DxfgCTYJxXA In the U.S., nearly everyone buying a new higher-end road bike wants disc brakes whether it makes sense or not. Electronic shifting is not necessarily seen as a plus by many buyers because of the hassle of battery charging, and the extra complexity that it adds. Same in the U.S. regarding ATBs, a 26" wheeled ATB has almost no value, though 27.5" sells well for shorter riders. Tom needs to find all this out for himself, everyone here explaining reality to him will have no effect. It's not uncommon for people to have unrealistic ideas about what their used stuff is worth. I will ask you again Scharf - what do you know about bicycles.. Over and over again, on this group you are completely unable to make a single technically correct comment on bicycles. And you have problems installing a Bottom Bracket and haven't yet solved the problems with the head bearings... So, what do you know about bicycles? John, carefully explain to everyone here what you know about high end bicycles and how you learned it? The bottom bracket tool for installing the BB did not get shipped with it and a Park Tool substitute cost more than simply taking it to the shop. What makes you think that the headset once received didn't get easily installed? Please tell me how you now choose a correct headset with about two dozen standards? Tell us Tom what is the mechanical difference between a high end and a low end bicycle? Disregarding the wheels they both have two moving parts and you had/have problems assembling both of them? -- Cheers, John B. If that's what you think we need no longer include you in any conversation regarding modern technology. What modern "technology" are we talking about here? The bottom bracket? Two bearings and a shaft through the bearings? Or the incredibly complex head bearings? You know, the gizmo that has two bearings with the tube sticking through them? As an aside, Tom's "modern technology has been used on bicycles for at least a hundred and thirty years :-) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...0s_a nd_1890s -- Cheers, John B. Yes John, you have shown over and over just how much you know about anything with two wheels on it. Well Tommy I built a bike from the raw tubes and lugs and remarkably I had no problems whatsoever installing the bottom bracket and the head bearings. And I don't have 200 pounds of tools to cart around either.. Tell everyone here what an acetylene torch weighs with the bottles. There are a lot of cylinder sizes, including mini 'wearable' setups (those are not shown in this link). https://weldersequipmentinc.com/uplo...237239.jpg?706 China Freight -- and not the low-cost option, either. https://www.harborfreight.com/portab...&cid=go_social About 20 years ago, they were selling something similar at Costco -- along with some cheap Lincoln stick welders. Jay, please don't hand out that kind of crap when I actually built motorcycle dragsters and know what is required. To properly fit the tubes you need a milling machine though you could do a half ass job with a very well built drill press. You can't just stick the tubes into the lugs and silver solder them so you need a HEAVY jig to put everything and KEEP everything in alignment during the soldering or brazing. John is lying through his teeth because that is all he ever does, Crew chiefs are crew chiefs because they can't do anything themselves. |
#34
|
|||
|
|||
Questions about value of bicycles.
On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 1:31:19 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 10:08:52 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 9:36:49 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote: On 4/15/2021 10:36 AM, Tom Kunich wrote: On Wednesday, April 14, 2021 at 7:12:05 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Wed, 14 Apr 2021 08:08:42 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: On Tuesday, April 13, 2021 at 7:55:50 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 16:15:22 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: On Tuesday, April 13, 2021 at 4:07:45 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 09:07:14 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 6:56:34 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 15:45:40 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 9:50:26 AM UTC-7, sms wrote: On 4/12/2021 8:56 AM, Lou Holtman wrote: snip I sold a couple of bikes just before Covid19 and I discovered that it is hard to sell a bike via the Dutch craiglist for a reasonable price if it doesn't have disc brakes, if not CF and for a ATB also is not 29". I think your bike would go for around 1500-200- euro over here. I tried to sell this bike: https://photos.app.goo.gl/1dSJW6DxfgCTYJxXA In the U.S., nearly everyone buying a new higher-end road bike wants disc brakes whether it makes sense or not. Electronic shifting is not necessarily seen as a plus by many buyers because of the hassle of battery charging, and the extra complexity that it adds. Same in the U.S. regarding ATBs, a 26" wheeled ATB has almost no value, though 27.5" sells well for shorter riders. Tom needs to find all this out for himself, everyone here explaining reality to him will have no effect. It's not uncommon for people to have unrealistic ideas about what their used stuff is worth. I will ask you again Scharf - what do you know about bicycles. Over and over again, on this group you are completely unable to make a single technically correct comment on bicycles. And you have problems installing a Bottom Bracket and haven't yet solved the problems with the head bearings... So, what do you know about bicycles? John, carefully explain to everyone here what you know about high end bicycles and how you learned it? The bottom bracket tool for installing the BB did not get shipped with it and a Park Tool substitute cost more than simply taking it to the shop. What makes you think that the headset once received didn't get easily installed? Please tell me how you now choose a correct headset with about two dozen standards? Tell us Tom what is the mechanical difference between a high end and a low end bicycle? Disregarding the wheels they both have two moving parts and you had/have problems assembling both of them? -- Cheers, John B. If that's what you think we need no longer include you in any conversation regarding modern technology. What modern "technology" are we talking about here? The bottom bracket? Two bearings and a shaft through the bearings? Or the incredibly complex head bearings? You know, the gizmo that has two bearings with the tube sticking through them? As an aside, Tom's "modern technology has been used on bicycles for at least a hundred and thirty years :-) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...0s_a nd_1890s -- Cheers, John B. Yes John, you have shown over and over just how much you know about anything with two wheels on it. Well Tommy I built a bike from the raw tubes and lugs and remarkably I had no problems whatsoever installing the bottom bracket and the head bearings. And I don't have 200 pounds of tools to cart around either. Tell everyone here what an acetylene torch weighs with the bottles. There are a lot of cylinder sizes, including mini 'wearable' setups (those are not shown in this link). https://weldersequipmentinc.com/uplo...237239.jpg?706 China Freight -- and not the low-cost option, either. https://www.harborfreight.com/portab...&cid=go_social About 20 years ago, they were selling something similar at Costco -- along with some cheap Lincoln stick welders. Jay, please don't hand out that kind of crap when I actually built motorcycle dragsters and know what is required. To properly fit the tubes you need a milling machine though you could do a half ass job with a very well built drill press. You can't just stick the tubes into the lugs and silver solder them so you need a HEAVY jig to put everything and KEEP everything in alignment during the soldering or brazing. John is lying through his teeth because that is all he ever does, Crew chiefs are crew chiefs because they can't do anything themselves. How many times do we have to go through this? Do you even remember the last time we had this discussion? To refresh your memory, Proteus -- even Bike Warehouse -- sold frame building kits for home builders. Were you asleep during the 70s-80s? Muzi regaled us with stories of hand-building with no lathe. Here, read the Proteus book: https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/re...oteus-bicycles Go to page 17 "Mitering the Tubes." No HEAVY jigs, no lathes. I worked with a frame builder who didn't use a lathe, although he had templates that were made on a lathe (and got a lathe some years later). I cut and mitered the tubes on my last steel racing frame with a hacksaw, file and a template that was close, but the tube still had to be hand-filed to get the angle just right. It was brazed together on a brazing stand with no HEAVY jigs and checked routinely on a surface plate. It was dead-on accurate.. Tons of people home-built their bikes in the 70s and early 80s. John was a welder and I see no reason why he couldn't braze a steel frame. It's not rocket science. In fact, brazing is a snooze job for a good welder. -- Jay Beattie. |
#35
|
|||
|
|||
Questions about value of bicycles.
On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 2:27:16 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 1:31:19 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 10:08:52 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 9:36:49 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote: On 4/15/2021 10:36 AM, Tom Kunich wrote: On Wednesday, April 14, 2021 at 7:12:05 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Wed, 14 Apr 2021 08:08:42 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: On Tuesday, April 13, 2021 at 7:55:50 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 16:15:22 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: On Tuesday, April 13, 2021 at 4:07:45 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 09:07:14 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 6:56:34 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 15:45:40 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 9:50:26 AM UTC-7, sms wrote: On 4/12/2021 8:56 AM, Lou Holtman wrote: snip I sold a couple of bikes just before Covid19 and I discovered that it is hard to sell a bike via the Dutch craiglist for a reasonable price if it doesn't have disc brakes, if not CF and for a ATB also is not 29". I think your bike would go for around 1500-200- euro over here. I tried to sell this bike: https://photos.app.goo.gl/1dSJW6DxfgCTYJxXA In the U.S., nearly everyone buying a new higher-end road bike wants disc brakes whether it makes sense or not. Electronic shifting is not necessarily seen as a plus by many buyers because of the hassle of battery charging, and the extra complexity that it adds. Same in the U.S. regarding ATBs, a 26" wheeled ATB has almost no value, though 27.5" sells well for shorter riders. Tom needs to find all this out for himself, everyone here explaining reality to him will have no effect. It's not uncommon for people to have unrealistic ideas about what their used stuff is worth. I will ask you again Scharf - what do you know about bicycles. Over and over again, on this group you are completely unable to make a single technically correct comment on bicycles. And you have problems installing a Bottom Bracket and haven't yet solved the problems with the head bearings... So, what do you know about bicycles? John, carefully explain to everyone here what you know about high end bicycles and how you learned it? The bottom bracket tool for installing the BB did not get shipped with it and a Park Tool substitute cost more than simply taking it to the shop. What makes you think that the headset once received didn't get easily installed? Please tell me how you now choose a correct headset with about two dozen standards? Tell us Tom what is the mechanical difference between a high end and a low end bicycle? Disregarding the wheels they both have two moving parts and you had/have problems assembling both of them? -- Cheers, John B. If that's what you think we need no longer include you in any conversation regarding modern technology. What modern "technology" are we talking about here? The bottom bracket? Two bearings and a shaft through the bearings? Or the incredibly complex head bearings? You know, the gizmo that has two bearings with the tube sticking through them? As an aside, Tom's "modern technology has been used on bicycles for at least a hundred and thirty years :-) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...0s_a nd_1890s -- Cheers, John B. Yes John, you have shown over and over just how much you know about anything with two wheels on it. Well Tommy I built a bike from the raw tubes and lugs and remarkably I had no problems whatsoever installing the bottom bracket and the head bearings. And I don't have 200 pounds of tools to cart around either. Tell everyone here what an acetylene torch weighs with the bottles. There are a lot of cylinder sizes, including mini 'wearable' setups (those are not shown in this link). https://weldersequipmentinc.com/uplo...237239.jpg?706 China Freight -- and not the low-cost option, either. https://www.harborfreight.com/portab...&cid=go_social About 20 years ago, they were selling something similar at Costco -- along with some cheap Lincoln stick welders. Jay, please don't hand out that kind of crap when I actually built motorcycle dragsters and know what is required. To properly fit the tubes you need a milling machine though you could do a half ass job with a very well built drill press. You can't just stick the tubes into the lugs and silver solder them so you need a HEAVY jig to put everything and KEEP everything in alignment during the soldering or brazing. John is lying through his teeth because that is all he ever does, Crew chiefs are crew chiefs because they can't do anything themselves. How many times do we have to go through this? Do you even remember the last time we had this discussion? To refresh your memory, Proteus -- even Bike Warehouse -- sold frame building kits for home builders. Were you asleep during the 70s-80s? Muzi regaled us with stories of hand-building with no lathe. Here, read the Proteus book: https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/re...oteus-bicycles Go to page 17 "Mitering the Tubes." No HEAVY jigs, no lathes. I worked with a frame builder who didn't use a lathe, although he had templates that were made on a lathe (and got a lathe some years later). I cut and mitered the tubes on my last steel racing frame with a hacksaw, file and a template that was close, but the tube still had to be hand-filed to get the angle just right. It was brazed together on a brazing stand with no HEAVY jigs and checked routinely on a surface plate. It was dead-on accurate. Tons of people home-built their bikes in the 70s and early 80s. John was a welder and I see no reason why he couldn't braze a steel frame. It's not rocket science. In fact, brazing is a snooze job for a good welder. -- Jay Beattie. If you worked with a "frame builder" that didn't use a mill or a heavy jig what were you doing? Defending him in lawsuits for endangering every person that bought a frame from him? Quit trying to bull**** your way out of this.. What gave you the idea that John could braze or that he was a welder? That's the same kind of crap that John has been handing out since he got here. He claims to have been a crew chief understand? All he did was take the flight maintenance writeups from the crew and call the people that COULD do things. If he worked at a job outside of his retirement from the service it was probably paperwork because they needed someone that could speak English.. I'm not trying to knock John other than he is bull****ting everything he comments on. I was in the Air Force remember? I know what crew chiefs were. |
#36
|
|||
|
|||
Questions about value of bicycles.
On 4/15/2021 4:27 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 1:31:19 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 10:08:52 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 9:36:49 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote: On 4/15/2021 10:36 AM, Tom Kunich wrote: On Wednesday, April 14, 2021 at 7:12:05 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Wed, 14 Apr 2021 08:08:42 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: On Tuesday, April 13, 2021 at 7:55:50 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 16:15:22 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: On Tuesday, April 13, 2021 at 4:07:45 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 09:07:14 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 6:56:34 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 15:45:40 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 9:50:26 AM UTC-7, sms wrote: On 4/12/2021 8:56 AM, Lou Holtman wrote: snip I sold a couple of bikes just before Covid19 and I discovered that it is hard to sell a bike via the Dutch craiglist for a reasonable price if it doesn't have disc brakes, if not CF and for a ATB also is not 29". I think your bike would go for around 1500-200- euro over here. I tried to sell this bike: https://photos.app.goo.gl/1dSJW6DxfgCTYJxXA In the U.S., nearly everyone buying a new higher-end road bike wants disc brakes whether it makes sense or not. Electronic shifting is not necessarily seen as a plus by many buyers because of the hassle of battery charging, and the extra complexity that it adds. Same in the U.S. regarding ATBs, a 26" wheeled ATB has almost no value, though 27.5" sells well for shorter riders. Tom needs to find all this out for himself, everyone here explaining reality to him will have no effect. It's not uncommon for people to have unrealistic ideas about what their used stuff is worth. I will ask you again Scharf - what do you know about bicycles. Over and over again, on this group you are completely unable to make a single technically correct comment on bicycles. And you have problems installing a Bottom Bracket and haven't yet solved the problems with the head bearings... So, what do you know about bicycles? John, carefully explain to everyone here what you know about high end bicycles and how you learned it? The bottom bracket tool for installing the BB did not get shipped with it and a Park Tool substitute cost more than simply taking it to the shop. What makes you think that the headset once received didn't get easily installed? Please tell me how you now choose a correct headset with about two dozen standards? Tell us Tom what is the mechanical difference between a high end and a low end bicycle? Disregarding the wheels they both have two moving parts and you had/have problems assembling both of them? -- Cheers, John B. If that's what you think we need no longer include you in any conversation regarding modern technology. What modern "technology" are we talking about here? The bottom bracket? Two bearings and a shaft through the bearings? Or the incredibly complex head bearings? You know, the gizmo that has two bearings with the tube sticking through them? As an aside, Tom's "modern technology has been used on bicycles for at least a hundred and thirty years :-) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...0s_a nd_1890s -- Cheers, John B. Yes John, you have shown over and over just how much you know about anything with two wheels on it. Well Tommy I built a bike from the raw tubes and lugs and remarkably I had no problems whatsoever installing the bottom bracket and the head bearings. And I don't have 200 pounds of tools to cart around either. Tell everyone here what an acetylene torch weighs with the bottles. There are a lot of cylinder sizes, including mini 'wearable' setups (those are not shown in this link). https://weldersequipmentinc.com/uplo...237239.jpg?706 China Freight -- and not the low-cost option, either. https://www.harborfreight.com/portab...&cid=go_social About 20 years ago, they were selling something similar at Costco -- along with some cheap Lincoln stick welders. Jay, please don't hand out that kind of crap when I actually built motorcycle dragsters and know what is required. To properly fit the tubes you need a milling machine though you could do a half ass job with a very well built drill press. You can't just stick the tubes into the lugs and silver solder them so you need a HEAVY jig to put everything and KEEP everything in alignment during the soldering or brazing. John is lying through his teeth because that is all he ever does, Crew chiefs are crew chiefs because they can't do anything themselves. How many times do we have to go through this? Do you even remember the last time we had this discussion? To refresh your memory, Proteus -- even Bike Warehouse -- sold frame building kits for home builders. Were you asleep during the 70s-80s? Muzi regaled us with stories of hand-building with no lathe. Here, read the Proteus book: https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/re...oteus-bicycles Go to page 17 "Mitering the Tubes." No HEAVY jigs, no lathes. I worked with a frame builder who didn't use a lathe, although he had templates that were made on a lathe (and got a lathe some years later). I cut and mitered the tubes on my last steel racing frame with a hacksaw, file and a template that was close, but the tube still had to be hand-filed to get the angle just right. It was brazed together on a brazing stand with no HEAVY jigs and checked routinely on a surface plate. It was dead-on accurate. Tons of people home-built their bikes in the 70s and early 80s. John was a welder and I see no reason why he couldn't braze a steel frame. It's not rocket science. In fact, brazing is a snooze job for a good welder. -- Jay Beattie. Yep, after the first few hundred, a hand mitered tube can be done well with a file in about 10 minutes: http://www.yellowjersey.org/thorn17h.jpg -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#37
|
|||
|
|||
Questions about value of bicycles.
On 4/15/2021 5:24 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 2:27:16 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 1:31:19 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 10:08:52 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 9:36:49 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote: On 4/15/2021 10:36 AM, Tom Kunich wrote: On Wednesday, April 14, 2021 at 7:12:05 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Wed, 14 Apr 2021 08:08:42 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: On Tuesday, April 13, 2021 at 7:55:50 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 16:15:22 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: On Tuesday, April 13, 2021 at 4:07:45 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 09:07:14 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 6:56:34 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 15:45:40 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 9:50:26 AM UTC-7, sms wrote: On 4/12/2021 8:56 AM, Lou Holtman wrote: snip I sold a couple of bikes just before Covid19 and I discovered that it is hard to sell a bike via the Dutch craiglist for a reasonable price if it doesn't have disc brakes, if not CF and for a ATB also is not 29". I think your bike would go for around 1500-200- euro over here. I tried to sell this bike: https://photos.app.goo.gl/1dSJW6DxfgCTYJxXA In the U.S., nearly everyone buying a new higher-end road bike wants disc brakes whether it makes sense or not. Electronic shifting is not necessarily seen as a plus by many buyers because of the hassle of battery charging, and the extra complexity that it adds. Same in the U.S. regarding ATBs, a 26" wheeled ATB has almost no value, though 27.5" sells well for shorter riders. Tom needs to find all this out for himself, everyone here explaining reality to him will have no effect. It's not uncommon for people to have unrealistic ideas about what their used stuff is worth. I will ask you again Scharf - what do you know about bicycles. Over and over again, on this group you are completely unable to make a single technically correct comment on bicycles. And you have problems installing a Bottom Bracket and haven't yet solved the problems with the head bearings... So, what do you know about bicycles? John, carefully explain to everyone here what you know about high end bicycles and how you learned it? The bottom bracket tool for installing the BB did not get shipped with it and a Park Tool substitute cost more than simply taking it to the shop. What makes you think that the headset once received didn't get easily installed? Please tell me how you now choose a correct headset with about two dozen standards? Tell us Tom what is the mechanical difference between a high end and a low end bicycle? Disregarding the wheels they both have two moving parts and you had/have problems assembling both of them? -- Cheers, John B. If that's what you think we need no longer include you in any conversation regarding modern technology. What modern "technology" are we talking about here? The bottom bracket? Two bearings and a shaft through the bearings? Or the incredibly complex head bearings? You know, the gizmo that has two bearings with the tube sticking through them? As an aside, Tom's "modern technology has been used on bicycles for at least a hundred and thirty years :-) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...0s_a nd_1890s -- Cheers, John B. Yes John, you have shown over and over just how much you know about anything with two wheels on it. Well Tommy I built a bike from the raw tubes and lugs and remarkably I had no problems whatsoever installing the bottom bracket and the head bearings. And I don't have 200 pounds of tools to cart around either. Tell everyone here what an acetylene torch weighs with the bottles. There are a lot of cylinder sizes, including mini 'wearable' setups (those are not shown in this link). https://weldersequipmentinc.com/uplo...237239.jpg?706 China Freight -- and not the low-cost option, either. https://www.harborfreight.com/portab...&cid=go_social About 20 years ago, they were selling something similar at Costco -- along with some cheap Lincoln stick welders. Jay, please don't hand out that kind of crap when I actually built motorcycle dragsters and know what is required. To properly fit the tubes you need a milling machine though you could do a half ass job with a very well built drill press. You can't just stick the tubes into the lugs and silver solder them so you need a HEAVY jig to put everything and KEEP everything in alignment during the soldering or brazing. John is lying through his teeth because that is all he ever does, Crew chiefs are crew chiefs because they can't do anything themselves. How many times do we have to go through this? Do you even remember the last time we had this discussion? To refresh your memory, Proteus -- even Bike Warehouse -- sold frame building kits for home builders. Were you asleep during the 70s-80s? Muzi regaled us with stories of hand-building with no lathe. Here, read the Proteus book: https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/re...oteus-bicycles Go to page 17 "Mitering the Tubes." No HEAVY jigs, no lathes. I worked with a frame builder who didn't use a lathe, although he had templates that were made on a lathe (and got a lathe some years later). I cut and mitered the tubes on my last steel racing frame with a hacksaw, file and a template that was close, but the tube still had to be hand-filed to get the angle just right. It was brazed together on a brazing stand with no HEAVY jigs and checked routinely on a surface plate. It was dead-on accurate. Tons of people home-built their bikes in the 70s and early 80s. John was a welder and I see no reason why he couldn't braze a steel frame. It's not rocket science. In fact, brazing is a snooze job for a good welder. -- Jay Beattie. If you worked with a "frame builder" that didn't use a mill or a heavy jig what were you doing? Defending him in lawsuits for endangering every person that bought a frame from him? Quit trying to bull**** your way out of this. What gave you the idea that John could braze or that he was a welder? That's the same kind of crap that John has been handing out since he got here. He claims to have been a crew chief understand? All he did was take the flight maintenance writeups from the crew and call the people that COULD do things. If he worked at a job outside of his retirement from the service it was probably paperwork because they needed someone that could speak English. I'm not trying to knock John other than he is bull****ting everything he comments on. I was in the Air Force remember? I know what crew chiefs were. I hand miter tubes because it's much faster than the setup time on a lathe. Much faster. My frame plate is a massive chunk of steel but I built frames before I made that and several famous builders ran their whole careers with simple straightedge, level and machinist's protractor: http://www.yellowjersey.org/NAGASA2X.JPG If your facility is doing large numbers of frames in batches, better tooling pays in time saved: http://www.yellowjersey.org/bassoworks.jpg For one-offs such as custom builds or repairs it's not clear to me at all. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#38
|
|||
|
|||
Questions about value of bicycles.
On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 6:47:56 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
I hand miter tubes because it's much faster than the setup time on a lathe. Much faster. My frame plate is a massive chunk of steel but I built frames before I made that and several famous builders ran their whole careers with simple straightedge, level and machinist's protractor: http://www.yellowjersey.org/NAGASA2X.JPG If your facility is doing large numbers of frames in batches, better tooling pays in time saved: http://www.yellowjersey.org/bassoworks.jpg For one-offs such as custom builds or repairs it's not clear to me at all. Exactly. There is serious cost in building a massive frame fixture. You need to produce and sell a large number of frames to amortize that cost. For a very low production volume it's not worth doing and absolutely not necessary. I've known several people who have built steel frames, At least two of those guys were mechanical engineers, including a good friend of mine whom I consider to be the smartest engineer I ever worked with. (We were in grad school together, and later I hired him to teach in our program.) He did workshops on frame building at LAW conventions, back when they had LAW conventions. That guy built absolutely beautiful (concours d'elegance winning) single frames, plus several tandems. Others built recumbents from instructions or, in one case, from the builder's own design. None of them used massive frame plates. Tom's made it very clear that in addition to being a bumbling mechanic, he has little understanding of the economics of manufacturing, - Frank Krygowski |
#39
|
|||
|
|||
Questions about value of bicycles.
On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 3:24:44 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 2:27:16 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 1:31:19 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 10:08:52 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 9:36:49 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote: On 4/15/2021 10:36 AM, Tom Kunich wrote: On Wednesday, April 14, 2021 at 7:12:05 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Wed, 14 Apr 2021 08:08:42 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: On Tuesday, April 13, 2021 at 7:55:50 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 16:15:22 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: On Tuesday, April 13, 2021 at 4:07:45 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 09:07:14 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 6:56:34 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 15:45:40 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 9:50:26 AM UTC-7, sms wrote: On 4/12/2021 8:56 AM, Lou Holtman wrote: snip I sold a couple of bikes just before Covid19 and I discovered that it is hard to sell a bike via the Dutch craiglist for a reasonable price if it doesn't have disc brakes, if not CF and for a ATB also is not 29". I think your bike would go for around 1500-200- euro over here. I tried to sell this bike: https://photos.app.goo.gl/1dSJW6DxfgCTYJxXA In the U.S., nearly everyone buying a new higher-end road bike wants disc brakes whether it makes sense or not. Electronic shifting is not necessarily seen as a plus by many buyers because of the hassle of battery charging, and the extra complexity that it adds. Same in the U.S. regarding ATBs, a 26" wheeled ATB has almost no value, though 27.5" sells well for shorter riders. Tom needs to find all this out for himself, everyone here explaining reality to him will have no effect. It's not uncommon for people to have unrealistic ideas about what their used stuff is worth.. I will ask you again Scharf - what do you know about bicycles. Over and over again, on this group you are completely unable to make a single technically correct comment on bicycles. And you have problems installing a Bottom Bracket and haven't yet solved the problems with the head bearings... So, what do you know about bicycles? John, carefully explain to everyone here what you know about high end bicycles and how you learned it? The bottom bracket tool for installing the BB did not get shipped with it and a Park Tool substitute cost more than simply taking it to the shop. What makes you think that the headset once received didn't get easily installed? Please tell me how you now choose a correct headset with about two dozen standards? Tell us Tom what is the mechanical difference between a high end and a low end bicycle? Disregarding the wheels they both have two moving parts and you had/have problems assembling both of them? -- Cheers, John B. If that's what you think we need no longer include you in any conversation regarding modern technology. What modern "technology" are we talking about here? The bottom bracket? Two bearings and a shaft through the bearings? Or the incredibly complex head bearings? You know, the gizmo that has two bearings with the tube sticking through them? As an aside, Tom's "modern technology has been used on bicycles for at least a hundred and thirty years :-) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...0s_a nd_1890s -- Cheers, John B. Yes John, you have shown over and over just how much you know about anything with two wheels on it. Well Tommy I built a bike from the raw tubes and lugs and remarkably I had no problems whatsoever installing the bottom bracket and the head bearings. And I don't have 200 pounds of tools to cart around either. Tell everyone here what an acetylene torch weighs with the bottles. There are a lot of cylinder sizes, including mini 'wearable' setups (those are not shown in this link). https://weldersequipmentinc.com/uplo...237239.jpg?706 China Freight -- and not the low-cost option, either. https://www.harborfreight.com/portab...&cid=go_social About 20 years ago, they were selling something similar at Costco -- along with some cheap Lincoln stick welders. Jay, please don't hand out that kind of crap when I actually built motorcycle dragsters and know what is required. To properly fit the tubes you need a milling machine though you could do a half ass job with a very well built drill press. You can't just stick the tubes into the lugs and silver solder them so you need a HEAVY jig to put everything and KEEP everything in alignment during the soldering or brazing. John is lying through his teeth because that is all he ever does, Crew chiefs are crew chiefs because they can't do anything themselves. How many times do we have to go through this? Do you even remember the last time we had this discussion? To refresh your memory, Proteus -- even Bike Warehouse -- sold frame building kits for home builders. Were you asleep during the 70s-80s? Muzi regaled us with stories of hand-building with no lathe. Here, read the Proteus book: https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/re...oteus-bicycles Go to page 17 "Mitering the Tubes." No HEAVY jigs, no lathes. I worked with a frame builder who didn't use a lathe, although he had templates that were made on a lathe (and got a lathe some years later). I cut and mitered the tubes on my last steel racing frame with a hacksaw, file and a template that was close, but the tube still had to be hand-filed to get the angle just right. It was brazed together on a brazing stand with no HEAVY jigs and checked routinely on a surface plate. It was dead-on accurate. Tons of people home-built their bikes in the 70s and early 80s. John was a welder and I see no reason why he couldn't braze a steel frame. It's not rocket science. In fact, brazing is a snooze job for a good welder. -- Jay Beattie. If you worked with a "frame builder" that didn't use a mill or a heavy jig what were you doing? Defending him in lawsuits for endangering every person that bought a frame from him? No, he was a friend, and I hung around the shop during college and worked on my own frames and built wheels for his customers. https://sasobike.com/ Jeff Lyons moved in for a while, and he built in the same way -- no HUGE jigs. https://www.lyonsport.com/ They had various brazing fixtures that were sort of kludged, but not what one would consider a modern adjustable jig.. https://fernandoj.wordpress.com/2014...frame-jigs-34/ I had friends who built off vices and various home-built stands. The frames varied widely in quality and longevity. -- Jay Beattie. |
#40
|
|||
|
|||
Questions about value of bicycles.
On 4/15/2021 6:31 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 6:47:56 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote: I hand miter tubes because it's much faster than the setup time on a lathe. Much faster. My frame plate is a massive chunk of steel but I built frames before I made that and several famous builders ran their whole careers with simple straightedge, level and machinist's protractor: http://www.yellowjersey.org/NAGASA2X.JPG If your facility is doing large numbers of frames in batches, better tooling pays in time saved: http://www.yellowjersey.org/bassoworks.jpg For one-offs such as custom builds or repairs it's not clear to me at all. Exactly. There is serious cost in building a massive frame fixture. You need to produce and sell a large number of frames to amortize that cost. For a very low production volume it's not worth doing and absolutely not necessary. I've known several people who have built steel frames, At least two of those guys were mechanical engineers, including a good friend of mine whom I consider to be the smartest engineer I ever worked with. (We were in grad school together, and later I hired him to teach in our program.) He did workshops on frame building at LAW conventions, back when they had LAW conventions. That guy built absolutely beautiful (concours d'elegance winning) single frames, plus several tandems. Others built recumbents from instructions or, in one case, from the builder's own design. None of them used massive frame plates. Tom's made it very clear that in addition to being a bumbling mechanic, he has little understanding of the economics of manufacturing, - Frank Krygowski To be clear, having a frame plate already set to a particular job makes mitering a tube ridiculously simple. It would be slow and difficult without that. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
INQUIRY: bike purchase [x-post rec.bicycles.marketplace, nyc.bicycles;rec.bicycles.misc] | BFB | General | 2 | May 3rd 05 10:09 PM |
INQUIRY: bike purchase [x-post rec.bicycles.marketplace, nyc.bicycles;rec.bicycles.misc] | BFB | Marketplace | 0 | May 3rd 05 07:13 PM |
Rec.Bicycles Frequently Asked Questions Posting Part 1/5 | Mike Iglesias | General | 4 | October 29th 04 07:11 AM |
rec.bicycles.racing,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.rides | BW | General | 1 | October 18th 03 04:45 PM |
rec.bicycles.racing,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.rides | BW | Rides | 1 | October 18th 03 04:45 PM |