I am that out of date

On 4/26/2021 9:05 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/25/2021 9:20 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/25/2021 9:22 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, April 25, 2021 at 3:57:27 PM UTC-7,
wrote:
On Sunday, April 25, 2021 at 1:06:28 PM UTC-7, jbeattie
wrote:
On Sunday, April 25, 2021 at 8:07:14 AM UTC-7,
wrote:
On Sunday, April 25, 2021 at 7:52:41 AM UTC-7, Frank
Krygowski wrote:
On 4/25/2021 10:17 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, April 24, 2021 at 7:46:20 AM UTC-7,
Roger Merriman wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, April 22, 2021 at 8:59:48 AM UTC-7,
AMuzi wrote:
On 4/22/2021 10:36 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/21/2021 10:33 PM, wrote:

I somehow forgot about clipless pedals. They are
a HUGE
improvement. I started with Time Equipe road
pedals back
in the late 1980s, early 1990s. Same ones Lemond
used.

Interestingly, the guy who set our club's record
for club
mileage (11,000+ miles of club rides, not
counting his
individual rides) just got a new pair of shoes
for riding.
They're ordinary New Balance sneakers. He rides
using toe
clips.

There are also the occasional barefoot marathon
runner and
US football kicker. They are outliers.

One of our club riders mentioned that most falls on
bicycles stems from
people not getting their feet out of clips rapidly
enough. So he reverted
to flat pedals. Now he cannot keep up on any
climbs. And people with
training can get out of pedals just as fast as he
can step off of a flat
pedal since they are ready to clip out when the
conditions warrant care.

Can’t say I have found any performance difference
at all, I used clipless
for a few years on my first road bike, was fine,
never struggled to clip in
or out or had a clip less moment but I never loved
them.

Few years back bought a CX bike for hacking about
the woods plus road and
put some MTB flats on, and used my MTB flat shoes,
ie pedals with pins in,
plus shoes with soft tacky tread.

In short with proper flats you can’t slide the
shoe but have to lift to
reposition, unlike the road flats which are frankly
terrifying slippy.

I’ve done 100+ miles on them, climbed up big
mountains, tackled seriously
steep climbs etc.

I’ve seen opinions dressed as science with huge
gains for clipless but
proper stuff the gains is marginal, apparently.
Which certainly echoes my
experience.

Interesting the pulling up, gain is very difficult
to prove.

Roger Merriman
Yesterday, when the pedal stripped out of the crank,
I pedaled a mile with on leg. Try that with flat pedals.
Wow. How did the pedal strip out of the crank?
I was just riding along and the pedal started rocking.
I immediately turned around to see if I could make it
back but 10 miles from home the pedal, threads and all
simply pulled right out. Pedals, as you know, are
"British threaded" so you only have to tighten them to
"snug" so I tighten them in with an Allen Key to keep
from overtightening them and pulling threads. I stopped
using the large and heavy pedals wrench long ago except
to pull a pedal off. But this is the first time I can
remember a pedal stripping out of a crank. The only
cause I can think of is that the thread diameter on the
pedal was undersize and the top of the threads on the
pedal were cut flat on top.
Or you under-tightened the pedal, which is the most
probable explanation. It's 30-40nm torque -- which is
more than "snug," which is IMO about 12-15nm like
Shimano crank bolts.
Jay, pedals are English threaded and under force they
tighten. I took these pedals and cranks on two hard
climbing rides so if they weren't tight enough before
they were tight enough after.

I have never had any problems with FSA cranks and Look
pedals. Looking at the threads on the Rock Bros Keo
substitute you can see that the threads are not badly
made but I'm willing to admit that rather than the pedal
it might just as well have been the material of the
crank. I just measured the threaded area OD on the Rock
Bros pedals and it is pretty regular 0.55" which is .0125
smaller than the 9/16 but it is the same measurement as
Look pedals measured in the same manner.

Did you tighten the pedals to recommended torque?* If not,
it backed out because the pedals were under-torqued.* If
so, then you have bearing binding.* The question now is if
you have ruined the pedal threads and need to replace the
crank.

Can't those be Helicoiled?



In theory but the usual pedal thread repair is a 5/8" full sleeve:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...ast/ped_58.jpg

Ah. OK.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Mon, 26 Apr 2021 03:29:30 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 4/25/2021 6:32 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

snip

Only $6,000?
https://www.beautifullife.info/automotive-design/most-expensive-bicycles-in-the-world/
Winner of the conspicuous consumption in cycling award is the
$1,000,0000 gold plated mountain bike. It's #1 at the bottom of the
page. Oh-oh. Looks like the link to:
https://www.thehouseofsolidgold.com
goes to a bogus site starting with "Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet". The
builder probably took the solid gold and ran.

Did it have electronic shifting?

Nope. It also has gold plated gears, chain, disc brakes, and other
moving parts which are likely to shed gold while riding. This is not
a bicycle intended to be ridden, but rather is intended to be seen.
https://www.beautifullife.info/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/11/img_big/01_house_of_solid_gold_24k_gold_02.jpg
https://www.beautifullife.info/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/11/img_big/01_house_of_solid_gold_24k_gold_01.jpg
However, it appears to be a Photoshop job, not a real working bicycle.
Or, if I'm wrong, it may have been gold powder coated, gold painted,
or gold plated like 3CPO.



--
Jeff Liebermann
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sun, 25 Apr 2021 22:01:23 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Sunday, April 25, 2021 at 8:33:02 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Only $6,000?
https://www.beautifullife.info/automotive-design/most-expensive-bicycles-in-the-world/
Winner of the conspicuous consumption in cycling award is the
$1,000,0000 gold plated mountain bike. It's #1 at the bottom of the
page.

Not sure about the $1million or $10million (you have seven zeroes after the 1,
that gets you to $10million) gold plated bikes.

Sorry. My hands start to shake when dealing with more than $1 million
dollars.

But Trek and Specialized, two main stream sold everywhere bike brands
have bikes a LOT higher than a mere $6,000. Specialized SL7 is $13k.
Trek Madone SLR9 is $12.5k. The mid priced bikes from these two companies
are more than $6k.

I would guess those are intended for the pros with corporate sponsors.
The most I've paid for a new bicycle was about $300 in 1984. ($758 in
todays inflated dollars). If one wants the very best, one had to pay
the very most.


--
Jeff Liebermann
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 21/04/2021 22:10, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
Am Wed, 21 Apr 2021 13:05:34 -0400 schrieb Frank Krygowski
:

On 4/21/2021 5:34 AM, wrote:
On Sunday, April 18, 2021 at 4:09:58 AM UTC-5, Tosspot wrote:
On 17/04/2021 17:53, Ralph Barone wrote:

Don’t forget the chromed steel rims. Nobody appears to be
lamenting the demise of chromed steel rims.
In the ****ed up world of retro bikes I have seen a few at work
with chromed steel rims. Now those don't get ridden in the rain
or I wouldn't be seeing them!

O RLY? From 1992 to 1995 I rode my Sparta Cornwall bike to work,
every single working day, around the year.
https://www.mystrobl.de/Plone/radfahren/bild12a.jpg Indeed, these
are chromed steel rims. Any idea why there wasn't any problem with
that, huh?

The cloggies get a lot of rain and figured out a better way do it!

Sorry about the picture quality, that picture was taken using an
Apple QickTake camera, in 1995.




Imho, the two biggest advancements to modern cycling, the alloy
rim and bike lights. Hand up who remembers cycling home in the
dark on a rainy night? NiCads suck.

Sure. So do lead/acid batteries, for example that gray piece marked
"friwo" in the picture linked below.
https://www.mystrobl.de/Plone/radfahren/technik/komponenten/licht/lichtc1.jpg/image_preview



Or bottle dynamos, like that one. It sucked.
https://www.mystrobl.de/Plone/radfahren/technik/komponenten/licht/P1050501a.JPG/view.html

Those union turbos worked no better than Nordlichts, which I grant you
was a step up from a any other bottle dynamo (I owned two Nordlichts)
but the hub dynamo was the answer, and arguably (I don't think so) the
LED light.

But somehow, most of this stuff worked good enough to server my well
for many years. A few expensive parts did not. For example that one:
https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/such/DSC04651.jpg. Do you know what
it is?

Yes, I have one if you want it. It fits to the rear triangle behind the
bottom bracket and scrapes crud of your tyres :-)

I'm not sure how far back "modern" cycling goes, but I would add
gearing to the biggest advancement category. Front and rear
derailleurs and a means to shift into the various rear cogs
and/or chainrings.

I agree. I've read old tales of touring with three or four speed
hub gears. Walking up any significant climb was standard
procedure.

People still do that nowadays. Bicycles got lighter with alloy
components, rims, frames, handlebar, this made it easier to push.

I cycled to school on a heavy Rabeneick bicycle, using a 3 speed hub
(Fichtel&Sachs Torpedo). Riding home (6%, about 120 m up) wasn't
easy. But pushing that bike would have been even more strenous.


Before derailleur gearing, I think pneumatic tires were the
biggest advancement.

What about better brakes?


Since derailleur gearing I think we've been chasing ever tinier
marginal improvements.

Sure. But some of those marginal improvements are nice,
nevertheless.


The most modern "improvements" are very underwhelming. We're now
down to "Ooh, I don't have to move my finger as far to get a gear
change! And it cost me only a couple thousand dollars extra!"

My current custom made road bike, built in in 2010, has Shimano
st-6703 Ultegra Dual Control Shifters. I like it. They aren't
without fault, the mechanics are somewhat fragile, changing gear
wires is somewhat difficult, but overall, these offer significant
benefits compared to downtube shifters. I still have my old read
bike, a Panasonic PR3000 bought in 1995
https://www.mystrobl.de/Plone/radfahren/pict2439.jpg/download and
keep it as a backup and for indoor training, but I prefer to ride the
newer bike. It wasn't that expensive, either, about EUR 1400 (~
$1700) in 2010. One of my sons bought a similar bike less than a year
ago for even less money.


If i was asked to list improvements, I'd name hub dynamos, led
lights with free-form reflectors, clipless pedals (esp. SPD), plus
all those tiny improvements which aren't really exiting and less
observable - better brake pads, better alloy, better tires, better
handlebar tape, ...

Clipless pedals, forgot about those, yes I'd add them to the list. I
use the M324s on all my bikes, but tbh I rarely use the clips these days.

Steve Weeks wrote:
On Monday, April 26, 2021 at 12:12:29 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:

To many any sort of mechanical work is akin to magic :-)

HT for the Isaac Azimov reference! :-)


Was that Asimov or Arthur C Clark?

On 4/26/2021 7:46 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/25/2021 10:30 PM, Mark J. wrote:
On 4/25/2021 6:22 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, April 25, 2021 at 3:57:27 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, April 25, 2021 at 1:06:28 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, April 25, 2021 at 8:07:14 AM UTC-7,
wrote:
On Sunday, April 25, 2021 at 7:52:41 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/25/2021 10:17 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, April 24, 2021 at 7:46:20 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman
wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, April 22, 2021 at 8:59:48 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/22/2021 10:36 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/21/2021 10:33 PM, wrote:

I somehow forgot about clipless pedals. They are a HUGE
improvement. I started with Time Equipe road pedals back
in the late 1980s, early 1990s. Same ones Lemond used.

Interestingly, the guy who set our club's record for club
mileage (11,000+ miles of club rides, not counting his
individual rides) just got a new pair of shoes for riding.
They're ordinary New Balance sneakers. He rides using toe
clips.

There are also the occasional barefoot marathon runner and
US football kicker. They are outliers.

One of our club riders mentioned that most falls on bicycles
stems from
people not getting their feet out of clips rapidly enough. So
he reverted
to flat pedals. Now he cannot keep up on any climbs. And
people with
training can get out of pedals just as fast as he can step off
of a flat
pedal since they are ready to clip out when the conditions
warrant care.

Can’t say I have found any performance difference at all, I
used clipless
for a few years on my first road bike, was fine, never
struggled to clip in
or out or had a clip less moment but I never loved them.

Few years back bought a CX bike for hacking about the woods
plus road and
put some MTB flats on, and used my MTB flat shoes, ie pedals
with pins in,
plus shoes with soft tacky tread.

In short with proper flats you can’t slide the shoe but have to
lift to
reposition, unlike the road flats which are frankly terrifying
slippy.

I’ve done 100+ miles on them, climbed up big mountains, tackled
seriously
steep climbs etc.

I’ve seen opinions dressed as science with huge gains for
clipless but
proper stuff the gains is marginal, apparently. Which certainly
echoes my
experience.

Interesting the pulling up, gain is very difficult to prove.

Roger Merriman
Yesterday, when the pedal stripped out of the crank, I pedaled a
mile with on leg. Try that with flat pedals.
Wow. How did the pedal strip out of the crank?
I was just riding along and the pedal started rocking. I
immediately turned around to see if I could make it back but 10
miles from home the pedal, threads and all simply pulled right
out. Pedals, as you know, are "British threaded" so you only have
to tighten them to "snug" so I tighten them in with an Allen Key
to keep from overtightening them and pulling threads. I stopped
using the large and heavy pedals wrench long ago except to pull a
pedal off. But this is the first time I can remember a pedal
stripping out of a crank. The only cause I can think of is that
the thread diameter on the pedal was undersize and the top of the
threads on the pedal were cut flat on top.
Or you under-tightened the pedal, which is the most probable
explanation. It's 30-40nm torque -- which is more than "snug,"
which is IMO about 12-15nm like Shimano crank bolts.
Jay, pedals are English threaded and under force they tighten. I
took these pedals and cranks on two hard climbing rides so if they
weren't tight enough before they were tight enough after.

I have never had any problems with FSA cranks and Look pedals.
Looking at the threads on the Rock Bros Keo substitute you can see
that the threads are not badly made but I'm willing to admit that
rather than the pedal it might just as well have been the material
of the crank. I just measured the threaded area OD on the Rock Bros
pedals and it is pretty regular 0.55" which is .0125 smaller than
the 9/16 but it is the same measurement as Look pedals measured in
the same manner.

Did you tighten the pedals to recommended torque?Â* If not, it backed
out because the pedals were under-torqued.Â* If so, then you have
bearing binding.Â* The question now is if you have ruined the pedal
threads and need to replace the crank.

--Jay Beattie.

You remind me of a fond bike-wrenching memory:

In college I worked a few stints at a local shop, mostly assembling
new bikes for the Christmas rush (a thing that used to happen in the
bike biz, but does no longer, I'm told).

One day a Prof from my school came in with his three-speed, maybe a
Raleigh.Â* I recognized him, though he didn't know me.Â* His sadness was
palpable as he held a detached pedal in his hand.Â* "I think I broke
it, is there anything you can do? Can it be repaired?"

The steel crank threads were rough, maybe damaged by the pedal coming
out, so you couldn't screw the pedal back in by hand.

I ran a pedal tap through the crank arm, probably in from the back
side; put a bit of oil on the pedal threads, in it went, and I
tightened it thoroughly.Â* I'm sure I checked that it was spinning freely.

You would have thought I had parted the Red Sea.Â* He was so delighted,
and he made me feel like a wizard.Â* I don't know what the boss charged
him - I was just a temp wrench and prices were above my pay grade -
but he came back after paying and stuffed a five dollar bill in my
shirt pocket, which was a fair bit of money back then.

We MEs would say "He was probably an Electrical Engineer."Â* ;-)

Or maybe English? Once I noticed a faculty member's bike parked in a
rack on campus with the front quick release not clamped, but instead
screwed down by hand. I tracked the guy down and gave him a lesson on
quick release levers. He was very grateful.

I found him in his office in the English department.

The lost-pedal guy was from the Poli Sci department. Later I took his
intro class on American ?Government? ?Political history? and enjoyed it.
Learned a lot about the accomplishments of the various presidents and
one hundred landmark Supreme Court decisions (we had to learn
one-sentence summaries of the 100 by name).

Mark J.

On Monday, April 26, 2021 at 2:30:35 PM UTC-5, Ralph Barone wrote:

Was that Asimov or Arthur C Clark?
My bad... it was Arthur C. Clarke: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

On Monday, April 26, 2021 at 10:34:39 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sun, 25 Apr 2021 22:01:23 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:
But Trek and Specialized, two main stream sold everywhere bike brands
have bikes a LOT higher than a mere $6,000. Specialized SL7 is $13k.
Trek Madone SLR9 is $12.5k. The mid priced bikes from these two companies
are more than $6k.

I would guess those are intended for the pros with corporate sponsors.
--
Jeff Liebermann

Well...all the bikes used by pro racers has to be available to the public to buy.

UCI Article 1.3.006
"Equipment shall be of a type that is sold for use by anyone practicing cycling as a sport."

Pro racing equipment is different than motor sport racing. F1, Indy, stock car. None of their cars/equipment is available to buy and use by the public. But the exact same bike, equipment, wheels, tires, handlebar tape, pedals, saddle used by pros can and maybe is bought by non racers. Its the law, rule.

On Monday, April 26, 2021 at 11:34:39 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 25 Apr 2021 22:01:23 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Sunday, April 25, 2021 at 8:33:02 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Only $6,000?
https://www.beautifullife.info/automotive-design/most-expensive-bicycles-in-the-world/
Winner of the conspicuous consumption in cycling award is the
$1,000,0000 gold plated mountain bike. It's #1 at the bottom of the
page.
Not sure about the $1million or $10million (you have seven zeroes after the 1,
that gets you to $10million) gold plated bikes.
Sorry. My hands start to shake when dealing with more than $1 million
dollars.
But Trek and Specialized, two main stream sold everywhere bike brands
have bikes a LOT higher than a mere $6,000. Specialized SL7 is $13k.
Trek Madone SLR9 is $12.5k. The mid priced bikes from these two companies
are more than $6k.

I would guess those are intended for the pros with corporate sponsors.

Nope. All the local shops around here had bikes pushing the $10K mark on the shop floor before the pandemic, and those are all sold out now. The only stuff now in the shops are odd sizes or fugly colors, though one shop as a few super-high end Specialized MTBs. Currently, a Specialized S-works SL7 Tarmac or Roubaix with DI2 in this area goes for about 11-12K depending on a few options, and people who have bought them are told delivery wouldn't be until the end of summer, and yes, I know two people personally in that situation. People spending that much money on a bike around here tend to go to one of the high end shops where they can get a fit. I'm actually in the market for something in the 10K+ range, specifically looking at a SL7 Tamac, I can't even get an appointment to meet with the fitter until July, and I'm probably going to spend well over 12K by the time everything is said and done. Not that it really matters, I wouldn't be able to take delivery until christmas at this point.

The most I've paid for a new bicycle was about $300 in 1984. ($758 in
todays inflated dollars).

My first real bike was a Basso Gap in 1984. I paid $750 for it. I haven't bought a built-up road bike since then, preferring to build my own, but bought a Merlin Road frame in 1989 for $1200 with a Campy Chorus 6 speed component group, can't remember how much I spent on the parts. My current race bike is a Scott CR1 with SRAM Red and Zipp 303wheels. To replace that now is probably $8k minimum, (though I think I spent just over 5 for all the pieces), which is why I'm going all out for the SL7 Tarmac. I have bought a few mountain bikes completely built, the last one being a C'dale Habit 3 in 2018. It was a leftover 2017 that retailed for $3200, but I got it for just over $2K.

If one wants the very best, one had to pay
the very most.
--
Jeff Liebermann
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 4/26/2021 2:30 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
Steve Weeks wrote:
On Monday, April 26, 2021 at 12:12:29 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:

To many any sort of mechanical work is akin to magic :-)

HT for the Isaac Azimov reference! :-)


Was that Asimov or Arthur C Clark?


Gold star to Mr Barone today:

http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/776.html

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971