Octalink ES25 replacement?

On 2017-08-13 07:13, David Scheidt wrote:
John B. wrote:

:I can still get 9 speed stuff here, in fact you can still buy 7 speed
:stuff although it is the low end Shimano models. I see a lot of new
:low end bikes with 7 speed derailers and often twist grip shifters.


Seven speed stuff is still available to OEMS (I don't know how much is
available to someone like AMuzi) because it's cheap. Freewheels, not
freehubs, and super low-end everything. All the tooling is paid for
years ago, and they crank it out for the $100 bike market. Its going
to be around for a while, because it's about as complicated as can be
made to work on bikes put together by nimwits. (A cow-orker bought
one from somewhere that had the fork on backwards.)


Not just for OEMs. I bought a 7-speed cassette for my road bike on
Amazon. When my last UG freehub crunched out I bought a 7-speed HG
freehub body, also via Amazon. You can also buy shifters and whatever
else you might need, not just from Shimano:

https://www.amazon.com/Shimano-Acera.../dp/B003ZM9RX6

https://www.amazon.com/Shimano-Speed.../dp/B01A5930R0

https://www.amazon.com/SRAM-Bicycle-.../dp/B000C15HS2

John, my hat goes off. 110km round trip at your age is great. I don't
know any local guy above 80 who'd even as much as think about doing that.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2017-08-13 01:07, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 07:03:54 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-11 19:59, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 16:59:50 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-11 16:52, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 11:00:32 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

The BB on my MTB makes a ticking sound when warmed up, sounds similar to
a hot car engine after it is turned off. It has also develoved an ever
so slight play, just a few mils. It is an Shimano ES25 Octalink.

How long do you guys let that go before replacing?

Can anyone recommend a better quality BB for this that lasts longer than
5k miles and doesn't cost an arm and a leg?

I see Octalink bottom brackets for sale for four British pounds :-)
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/c...t/rp-prod34653
About $5.00.


I saw that as well. It's a clearance item in an odd diameter. $6.99 when
clicking the link in the US. I guess in new-speak that's called "target
group pricing" or something similar :-)


I believe in the grocery store marketing it is called a "loss Leader".


I meant different prices for different regions or people. One big player
recently got into trouble for that which netted them a not-so-honorary
mention in the Wall Street Journal.

Why ever not different prices for different people. My bike shop
certainly does it. If you come in they will charge you one price. If I
come in they charge me 15% less. My guess is that it is not uncommon.


Quantity discounts or loyal-customer rebates at a local store are ok.
Often people get 10% of at the LBS if they bought their bike there.
However, if an online retailer changes pricing on people depending on
what their zip code is or a bank sets loan rates based on the color of
one's skin that is a slippery slope.


In fact, if we go to an open market, where bargaining is the norm, my
wife will always be quoted a cheaper price then I would. (foreigners
are all rich!)


That is normal. We even had that where I lived in the Netherlands. If
you spoke the language with a local accent (I did) you have an easier
time negotiating a good deal for food items at the open air market.

[...]


I also see an ES300 for $16.68 and there are also Shimano Dura-Ace
Octalink BB's and although I don't know whether they fit, Dura-Ace is
usually considered as very high quality.


It may be time to write to Shimano, hoping they'll answer. To me this
flurry of model numbers is confusing and not all are 100% compatible.
The cranks have to fit and the chain line should remain roughly the same.

Take it to a good bike shop :-) I have a shop in Bangkok and another
in Phuket where they seem to know what they're doing.... as long as I
know enough to ask the right questions, that is.


I was hoping that someone had the same issue with paltry ES25 lifetime
and could tell me "Here, buy that one, lasts a lot longer" (and where it
fits well).

[...]

I wonder how popular the Octalink pedals were? I can't remember ever
seeing one on the road, or maybe I didn't look :-) Perhaps they
weren't that common that people talk about them.


AFAICT they were on all the bikes I looked at in early 2014. What do
bikes in the $1k range have in Thailand? Square taper is a good system
but I have only seen that on older bikes here like on my 1982 road bike.
I don't know why they went to Octalink. Maybe it saves half a few
hundred milligrams.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Sunday, August 13, 2017 at 7:14:00 AM UTC-7, David Scheidt wrote:
John B. wrote:

:I can still get 9 speed stuff here, in fact you can still buy 7 speed
:stuff although it is the low end Shimano models. I see a lot of new
:low end bikes with 7 speed derailers and often twist grip shifters.


Seven speed stuff is still available to OEMS (I don't know how much is
available to someone like AMuzi) because it's cheap. Freewheels, not
freehubs, and super low-end everything. All the tooling is paid for
years ago, and they crank it out for the $100 bike market. Its going
to be around for a while, because it's about as complicated as can be
made to work on bikes put together by nimwits. (A cow-orker bought
one from somewhere that had the fork on backwards.)

I'm sure that you can go to a local bike shop and get 7-8-9 speed cassettes and the like for only twice what you can get them on eBay. If you can find them on eBay.

On Sunday, August 13, 2017 at 7:33:26 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:

John, my hat goes off. 110km round trip at your age is great. I don't
know any local guy above 80 who'd even as much as think about doing that.

At John's age a ride down to the coffee shop is great.....

On 8/13/2017 9:13 AM, David Scheidt wrote:
John B. wrote:

:I can still get 9 speed stuff here, in fact you can still buy 7 speed
:stuff although it is the low end Shimano models. I see a lot of new
:low end bikes with 7 speed derailers and often twist grip shifters.


Seven speed stuff is still available to OEMS (I don't know how much is
available to someone like AMuzi) because it's cheap. Freewheels, not
freehubs, and super low-end everything. All the tooling is paid for
years ago, and they crank it out for the $100 bike market. Its going
to be around for a while, because it's about as complicated as can be
made to work on bikes put together by nimwits. (A cow-orker bought
one from somewhere that had the fork on backwards.)


Available? Hell it's dominant.

In service, seven chain/seven cassette are the #1 drive
train parts by unit volume, nothing else is close. Six speed
has fallen off the past 5 years. We sell more nine than 8 by
quite a bit.

While I buy 10 or 11 cassettes 2~3 at a time, sevens are box
of 10, regularly, and 7 chain in 50-count box.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 09:31:09 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-13 01:07, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 07:03:54 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-11 19:59, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 16:59:50 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-11 16:52, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 11:00:32 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

The BB on my MTB makes a ticking sound when warmed up, sounds similar to
a hot car engine after it is turned off. It has also develoved an ever
so slight play, just a few mils. It is an Shimano ES25 Octalink.

How long do you guys let that go before replacing?

Can anyone recommend a better quality BB for this that lasts longer than
5k miles and doesn't cost an arm and a leg?

I see Octalink bottom brackets for sale for four British pounds :-)
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/c...t/rp-prod34653
About $5.00.


I saw that as well. It's a clearance item in an odd diameter. $6.99 when
clicking the link in the US. I guess in new-speak that's called "target
group pricing" or something similar :-)


I believe in the grocery store marketing it is called a "loss Leader".


I meant different prices for different regions or people. One big player
recently got into trouble for that which netted them a not-so-honorary
mention in the Wall Street Journal.

Why ever not different prices for different people. My bike shop
certainly does it. If you come in they will charge you one price. If I
come in they charge me 15% less. My guess is that it is not uncommon.


Quantity discounts or loyal-customer rebates at a local store are ok.
Often people get 10% of at the LBS if they bought their bike there.
However, if an online retailer changes pricing on people depending on
what their zip code is or a bank sets loan rates based on the color of
one's skin that is a slippery slope.

Why? It is almost a normal practice and to my personal experience is
done just about everywhere I've been. In Maine the "summer folks" are
charged more then a "native", in fact this was so common that the term
"summer rate" was commonly used when I lived there. In every Asian
country I've lived in a "white skinned" foreigner was either charged a
higher price or not given as large a discount as a native. It is
probably not politically correct (in the U.S.) to say "white skinned"
although that is a commonly heard description in most Asian countries
:-(

In Phuket, Thailand the Bar Girls even have a "High Season" rate and a
"Low Season" rate. High Season is of course, when the tourists flock
in.


In fact, if we go to an open market, where bargaining is the norm, my
wife will always be quoted a cheaper price then I would. (foreigners
are all rich!)


That is normal. We even had that where I lived in the Netherlands. If
you spoke the language with a local accent (I did) you have an easier
time negotiating a good deal for food items at the open air market.

[...]


I also see an ES300 for $16.68 and there are also Shimano Dura-Ace
Octalink BB's and although I don't know whether they fit, Dura-Ace is
usually considered as very high quality.


It may be time to write to Shimano, hoping they'll answer. To me this
flurry of model numbers is confusing and not all are 100% compatible.
The cranks have to fit and the chain line should remain roughly the same.

Take it to a good bike shop :-) I have a shop in Bangkok and another
in Phuket where they seem to know what they're doing.... as long as I
know enough to ask the right questions, that is.


I was hoping that someone had the same issue with paltry ES25 lifetime
and could tell me "Here, buy that one, lasts a lot longer" (and where it
fits well).

[...]

I wonder how popular the Octalink pedals were? I can't remember ever
seeing one on the road, or maybe I didn't look :-) Perhaps they
weren't that common that people talk about them.


AFAICT they were on all the bikes I looked at in early 2014. What do
bikes in the $1k range have in Thailand? Square taper is a good system
but I have only seen that on older bikes here like on my 1982 road bike.
I don't know why they went to Octalink. Maybe it saves half a few
hundred milligrams.

To be honest I don't pay as close attention to new bikes as I might.
Partly, I suppose, because I have three road bikes and a "knock
around" bike, all of which, well with the exception of one road bike
that I built myself, are more then ten years old, one of the road
bikes may be from the 1970's, and I don't lust after something just
because it is new.

But honestly, I can't ever remember seeing either a bike with an
octalink crank or for that matter any octalink parts in shops. Which
of course may only mean that I didn't have my eyes open that day :-)

But as for why they were made, I suspect that like many of the New!
Innovative! Wonderful! things that appear on the market they were
built simply to be New! Innovative! and Wonderful!

Are the modern press in BB bearings an actual improvement? Or are they
just "same old" but in a new style "that we can announce as an
improvement and charge more money for"?
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 07:33:21 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-13 07:13, David Scheidt wrote:
John B. wrote:

:I can still get 9 speed stuff here, in fact you can still buy 7 speed
:stuff although it is the low end Shimano models. I see a lot of new
:low end bikes with 7 speed derailers and often twist grip shifters.


Seven speed stuff is still available to OEMS (I don't know how much is
available to someone like AMuzi) because it's cheap. Freewheels, not
freehubs, and super low-end everything. All the tooling is paid for
years ago, and they crank it out for the $100 bike market. Its going
to be around for a while, because it's about as complicated as can be
made to work on bikes put together by nimwits. (A cow-orker bought
one from somewhere that had the fork on backwards.)


Not just for OEMs. I bought a 7-speed cassette for my road bike on
Amazon. When my last UG freehub crunched out I bought a 7-speed HG
freehub body, also via Amazon. You can also buy shifters and whatever
else you might need, not just from Shimano:

https://www.amazon.com/Shimano-Acera.../dp/B003ZM9RX6

https://www.amazon.com/Shimano-Speed.../dp/B01A5930R0

https://www.amazon.com/SRAM-Bicycle-.../dp/B000C15HS2

John, my hat goes off. 110km round trip at your age is great. I don't
know any local guy above 80 who'd even as much as think about doing that.

Well, I guess I ought to take center stage :-) But that was 55Km. for
the round trip "out and back".
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 09:34:44 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Sunday, August 13, 2017 at 7:33:26 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:

John, my hat goes off. 110km round trip at your age is great. I don't
know any local guy above 80 who'd even as much as think about doing that.

At John's age a ride down to the coffee shop is great.....

Actually not. I have the theory that if you just keep plugging along
you can keep going, and it seems to work. Certainly I am not as fast
as "I used to be", but then, nobody is :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 2017-08-13 17:38, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 09:31:09 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-13 01:07, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 07:03:54 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-11 19:59, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 16:59:50 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-11 16:52, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 11:00:32 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

The BB on my MTB makes a ticking sound when warmed up, sounds similar to
a hot car engine after it is turned off. It has also develoved an ever
so slight play, just a few mils. It is an Shimano ES25 Octalink.

How long do you guys let that go before replacing?

Can anyone recommend a better quality BB for this that lasts longer than
5k miles and doesn't cost an arm and a leg?

I see Octalink bottom brackets for sale for four British pounds :-)
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/c...t/rp-prod34653
About $5.00.


I saw that as well. It's a clearance item in an odd diameter. $6.99 when
clicking the link in the US. I guess in new-speak that's called "target
group pricing" or something similar :-)


I believe in the grocery store marketing it is called a "loss Leader".


I meant different prices for different regions or people. One big player
recently got into trouble for that which netted them a not-so-honorary
mention in the Wall Street Journal.

Why ever not different prices for different people. My bike shop
certainly does it. If you come in they will charge you one price. If I
come in they charge me 15% less. My guess is that it is not uncommon.


Quantity discounts or loyal-customer rebates at a local store are ok.
Often people get 10% of at the LBS if they bought their bike there.
However, if an online retailer changes pricing on people depending on
what their zip code is or a bank sets loan rates based on the color of
one's skin that is a slippery slope.

Why? It is almost a normal practice and to my personal experience is
done just about everywhere I've been. In Maine the "summer folks" are
charged more then a "native", in fact this was so common that the term
"summer rate" was commonly used when I lived there. In every Asian
country I've lived in a "white skinned" foreigner was either charged a
higher price or not given as large a discount as a native. It is
probably not politically correct (in the U.S.) to say "white skinned"
although that is a commonly heard description in most Asian countries
:-(


You have probably been away from the US too long. Discrimination based
on race, gender, ethnicity and so on is a punishable offense here.


In Phuket, Thailand the Bar Girls even have a "High Season" rate and a
"Low Season" rate. High Season is of course, when the tourists flock
in.


Setting prices higher or lower is fine as long as that isn't done based
on the looks of who is coming in.


In fact, if we go to an open market, where bargaining is the norm, my
wife will always be quoted a cheaper price then I would. (foreigners
are all rich!)


That is normal. We even had that where I lived in the Netherlands. If
you spoke the language with a local accent (I did) you have an easier
time negotiating a good deal for food items at the open air market.

[...]


I also see an ES300 for $16.68 and there are also Shimano Dura-Ace
Octalink BB's and although I don't know whether they fit, Dura-Ace is
usually considered as very high quality.


It may be time to write to Shimano, hoping they'll answer. To me this
flurry of model numbers is confusing and not all are 100% compatible.
The cranks have to fit and the chain line should remain roughly the same.

Take it to a good bike shop :-) I have a shop in Bangkok and another
in Phuket where they seem to know what they're doing.... as long as I
know enough to ask the right questions, that is.


I was hoping that someone had the same issue with paltry ES25 lifetime
and could tell me "Here, buy that one, lasts a lot longer" (and where it
fits well).

[...]

I wonder how popular the Octalink pedals were? I can't remember ever
seeing one on the road, or maybe I didn't look :-) Perhaps they
weren't that common that people talk about them.


AFAICT they were on all the bikes I looked at in early 2014. What do
bikes in the $1k range have in Thailand? Square taper is a good system
but I have only seen that on older bikes here like on my 1982 road bike.
I don't know why they went to Octalink. Maybe it saves half a few
hundred milligrams.

To be honest I don't pay as close attention to new bikes as I might.
Partly, I suppose, because I have three road bikes and a "knock
around" bike, all of which, well with the exception of one road bike
that I built myself, are more then ten years old, one of the road
bikes may be from the 1970's, and I don't lust after something just
because it is new.

But honestly, I can't ever remember seeing either a bike with an
octalink crank or for that matter any octalink parts in shops. Which
of course may only mean that I didn't have my eyes open that day :-)


You can't see it unless you have the clerk pull the spec sheet or take a
crank off.


But as for why they were made, I suspect that like many of the New!
Innovative! Wonderful! things that appear on the market they were
built simply to be New! Innovative! and Wonderful!

Are the modern press in BB bearings an actual improvement?


Most definitely not.


... Or are they
just "same old" but in a new style "that we can announce as an
improvement and charge more money for"?


They are cheap alright but, as unfortunately usual for bike parts, have
a very paltry service life. For the same money my MTB buddy bought a
massive front wheel bearing assembly for his Chevy Express van and they
last hundreds of thousands of miles. Not just 5000.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2017-08-13 17:44, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 07:33:21 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-13 07:13, David Scheidt wrote:
John B. wrote:

:I can still get 9 speed stuff here, in fact you can still buy 7 speed
:stuff although it is the low end Shimano models. I see a lot of new
:low end bikes with 7 speed derailers and often twist grip shifters.


Seven speed stuff is still available to OEMS (I don't know how much is
available to someone like AMuzi) because it's cheap. Freewheels, not
freehubs, and super low-end everything. All the tooling is paid for
years ago, and they crank it out for the $100 bike market. Its going
to be around for a while, because it's about as complicated as can be
made to work on bikes put together by nimwits. (A cow-orker bought
one from somewhere that had the fork on backwards.)


Not just for OEMs. I bought a 7-speed cassette for my road bike on
Amazon. When my last UG freehub crunched out I bought a 7-speed HG
freehub body, also via Amazon. You can also buy shifters and whatever
else you might need, not just from Shimano:

https://www.amazon.com/Shimano-Acera.../dp/B003ZM9RX6

https://www.amazon.com/Shimano-Speed.../dp/B01A5930R0

https://www.amazon.com/SRAM-Bicycle-.../dp/B000C15HS2

John, my hat goes off. 110km round trip at your age is great. I don't
know any local guy above 80 who'd even as much as think about doing that.

Well, I guess I ought to take center stage :-) But that was 55Km. for
the round trip "out and back".


Still great. My usual rides aren't much longer than that, around 65km.
As you said in the other post keeping at it is the trick. That is how my
great grandpa made it to almost 103 in good health. He walked miles and
miles every day though his last motorcycle ride was at 95.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/