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#31
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Coaster Brake Failure
On Wed, 27 Feb 2019 08:09:04 -0800, Joerg
wrote: On 2019-02-25 11:42, Tosspot wrote: On 2/25/19 5:06 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2019-02-25 07:29, Ralph Barone wrote: AMuzi wrote: https://www.bicycleretailer.com/reca...nd-aftermarket Mysterious. How the hell did that happen in a design 100+ years old? They must have improved it. In German there is the inofficial word "verschlimmbessern". It sums up the action of "Here we have a working design but let's optimize it anyhow" and then it all goes to pots. A very common scenario in software design. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp_D8r-2hwk Sometimes those things happen for reasons Tom mentioned. People using library modules that others have written, assuming everything in those we be just fine. And then things aren't. This is one of the reasons why I prefer gear with the least amount of electronics and software in there and, for example, will never be caught with electronic shifters on a bicycle. True, but then people also have had the metal shift cables break and been restricted to a single gear. It appears that everything is subject to failure :-) -- Cheers, John B. |
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#32
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Coaster Brake Failure
On Thu, 28 Feb 2019 07:25:37 +1100, James
wrote: On 26/2/19 7:06 pm, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Tue, 26 Feb 2019 18:09:31 +1100, James wrote: On 26/2/19 5:09 pm, Tosspot wrote: On 2/26/19 12:28 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Mon, 25 Feb 2019 20:39:48 +0100, Tosspot wrote: On 2/25/19 3:16 PM, AMuzi wrote: https://www.bicycleretailer.com/reca...nd-aftermarket Mysterious. How the hell did that happen in a design 100+ years old? It's fake news.* We all know that the old days were *far* superior to modern rim/disc brakes. Honestly, greasing brakes! Actually the old style single speed coaster brakes did have grease or oil in them. See https://www.sheldonbrown.com/coaster-brakes.html under "Lubrication". It's brakes and grease, I will never surrender my opinion this is a good thing[TM].* How do they work? I think most tractors have wet brakes. Mine does. They seem to work. Wet as in "water" or wet as in "oil"? They run in transmission oil. Sealed from the elements and oil cooled. If, and I am assuming, you mean farm tractor as apposed to road tractor (and trailer) do the breaks get that hot? I know that Caterpillar earth moving tractors (Bulldozers) have internal brakes but I always assumed that was more a matter of keeping things clean rather than cooling. -- Cheers, John B. |
#33
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Coaster Brake Failure
On Thu, 28 Feb 2019 05:54:43 +0700, John B. Slocomb
wrote: On Thu, 28 Feb 2019 07:25:37 +1100, James wrote: On 26/2/19 7:06 pm, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Tue, 26 Feb 2019 18:09:31 +1100, James wrote: On 26/2/19 5:09 pm, Tosspot wrote: On 2/26/19 12:28 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Mon, 25 Feb 2019 20:39:48 +0100, Tosspot wrote: On 2/25/19 3:16 PM, AMuzi wrote: https://www.bicycleretailer.com/reca...nd-aftermarket Mysterious. How the hell did that happen in a design 100+ years old? It's fake news.* We all know that the old days were *far* superior to modern rim/disc brakes. Honestly, greasing brakes! Actually the old style single speed coaster brakes did have grease or oil in them. See https://www.sheldonbrown.com/coaster-brakes.html under "Lubrication". It's brakes and grease, I will never surrender my opinion this is a good thing[TM].* How do they work? I think most tractors have wet brakes. Mine does. They seem to work. Wet as in "water" or wet as in "oil"? They run in transmission oil. Sealed from the elements and oil cooled. If, and I am assuming, you mean farm tractor as apposed to road tractor (and trailer) do the breaks get that hot? I know that Caterpillar earth moving tractors (Bulldozers) have internal brakes but I always assumed that was more a matter of keeping things clean rather than cooling. do the brakes get hot :-( -- Cheers, John B. |
#34
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Coaster Brake Failure
On 28/2/19 10:07 am, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 28 Feb 2019 05:54:43 +0700, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Thu, 28 Feb 2019 07:25:37 +1100, James wrote: On 26/2/19 7:06 pm, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Tue, 26 Feb 2019 18:09:31 +1100, James wrote: I think most tractors have wet brakes. Mine does. They seem to work. Wet as in "water" or wet as in "oil"? They run in transmission oil. Sealed from the elements and oil cooled. If, and I am assuming, you mean farm tractor as apposed to road tractor (and trailer) do the breaks get that hot? I know that Caterpillar earth moving tractors (Bulldozers) have internal brakes but I always assumed that was more a matter of keeping things clean rather than cooling. do the brakes get hot :-( Yes a farm tractor. I've never heard of a road tractor (and trailer). What do you mean by that? For the work I do with my tractor they don't get at all hot. Apparently they can heat up though. Like most tractors, the brake pedal is split in two. Left and right side brakes can be controlled individually, or the pedals joined as one. To help turn, apparently, you can apply the brake to one side only, and in boggy or slippery conditions, you can apply the brake to the side that is spinning so that power is delivered to the tyre with grip. My tractor also has a rear diff lock and is 4WD, so it has to be quite slippery or very uneven ground before I get stuck. I think though reliability is the key. They apparently last much longer without maintenance than a dry type would that is exposed to dirt and water. -- JS |
#35
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Coaster Brake Failure
On Thu, 28 Feb 2019 17:25:28 +1100, James
wrote: On 28/2/19 10:07 am, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Thu, 28 Feb 2019 05:54:43 +0700, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Thu, 28 Feb 2019 07:25:37 +1100, James wrote: On 26/2/19 7:06 pm, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Tue, 26 Feb 2019 18:09:31 +1100, James wrote: I think most tractors have wet brakes. Mine does. They seem to work. Wet as in "water" or wet as in "oil"? They run in transmission oil. Sealed from the elements and oil cooled. If, and I am assuming, you mean farm tractor as apposed to road tractor (and trailer) do the breaks get that hot? I know that Caterpillar earth moving tractors (Bulldozers) have internal brakes but I always assumed that was more a matter of keeping things clean rather than cooling. do the brakes get hot :-( Yes a farm tractor. I've never heard of a road tractor (and trailer). What do you mean by that? It may be a USian term. A tractor is a short wheelbase truck with a "fifth wheel" coupling to haul a trailer see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth-wheel_coupling We use the term "tractor-trailer", or sometimes "Semi-trailer" to describe the rig, but the front powered truck portion is always called a tractor. In Australia I think that they haul more than one trailer and get called a "road train". For the work I do with my tractor they don't get at all hot. Apparently they can heat up though. Like most tractors, the brake pedal is split in two. Left and right side brakes can be controlled individually, or the pedals joined as one. To help turn, apparently, you can apply the brake to one side only, and in boggy or slippery conditions, you can apply the brake to the side that is spinning so that power is delivered to the tyre with grip. My tractor also has a rear diff lock and is 4WD, so it has to be quite slippery or very uneven ground before I get stuck. I think though reliability is the key. They apparently last much longer without maintenance than a dry type would that is exposed to dirt and water. Well, a bull-dozer, technically called a Tractor, has internal steering brakes but I don't remember ever changing or maintaining them. They just worked. But of course at full throttle you could probably outrun one barefooted so stopping from speed didn't enter into the equation :-) -- Cheers, John B. |
#36
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Coaster Brake Failure
On 2/27/2019 12:23 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/27/2019 3:08 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, February 27, 2019 at 11:17:07 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote: On 2/27/2019 10:36 AM, jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, February 27, 2019 at 8:09:00 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote: On 2019-02-25 11:42, Tosspot wrote: On 2/25/19 5:06 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2019-02-25 07:29, Ralph Barone wrote: AMuzi wrote: https://www.bicycleretailer.com/reca...nd-aftermarket Mysterious. How the hell did that happen in a design 100+ years old? They must have improved it. In German there is the inofficial word "verschlimmbessern". It sums up the action of "Here we have a working design but let's optimize it Â*Â* anyhow" and then it all goes to pots. A very common scenario in software design. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp_D8r-2hwk Sometimes those things happen for reasons Tom mentioned. People using library modules that others have written, assuming everything in those we be just fine. And then things aren't. This is one of the reasons why I prefer gear with the least amount of electronics and software in there and, for example, will never be caught with electronic shifters on a bicycle. I am saying this as an engineer who designs electroncics. I have Ultegra Di2 on my super rain bike Synapse.Â* Works great except that I broke the rear derailleur wire being careless cleaning the bike in a wash stand.Â* I soldered the broken wire and shrink-wrapped it. I also bought a new wire, but the repair seems to be working fine. The problem with Di2 -- or maybe just 11sp -- is that chain wear beyond .5% but below .75% really degrades shifting.Â* Down-shifts hang up.Â* I threw on a new chain last night, and now it shifts great.Â* I didn't think I had that much mileage on the chain, but I guess I did. I bought a couple $19 11sp 105 chains from Western Bikeworks for back-ups. The great thing about Western is that if you buy $50, it's free shipping, but if you pick up in store, its $5 off.Â* I can ride to the store on my way home from work and save $5, although not today because it snowed, and I slacked-off and car-pooled with my son. -- Jay Beattie. SRAM says their new 12 system has bigger chain rollers & rivets. For which you need a new chain tool. And for which they have a chain company. Tres convenient. I wonder how many of the chain manufacturers are going to follow them down that rabbit hole. Remember years ago when Shimano tried to get us to buy 10mm chain? Yup. "It's lighter" or... something. For those of you who missed it, the links were 10mm long instead of the standard 1/2 inch. I think it was primarily promoted as a track item (this was before the street "fixie" fad). Mark J. |
#37
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Coaster Brake Failure
On 2019-02-27 14:47, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 27 Feb 2019 08:09:04 -0800, Joerg wrote: On 2019-02-25 11:42, Tosspot wrote: On 2/25/19 5:06 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2019-02-25 07:29, Ralph Barone wrote: AMuzi wrote: https://www.bicycleretailer.com/reca...nd-aftermarket Mysterious. How the hell did that happen in a design 100+ years old? They must have improved it. In German there is the inofficial word "verschlimmbessern". It sums up the action of "Here we have a working design but let's optimize it anyhow" and then it all goes to pots. A very common scenario in software design. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp_D8r-2hwk Sometimes those things happen for reasons Tom mentioned. People using library modules that others have written, assuming everything in those we be just fine. And then things aren't. This is one of the reasons why I prefer gear with the least amount of electronics and software in there and, for example, will never be caught with electronic shifters on a bicycle. True, but then people also have had the metal shift cables break and been restricted to a single gear. It appears that everything is subject to failure :-) That is very rare, more so than a derailer ripped away by a rock. Main thing is, with batteries the number of available shifts per charge is finite. I was told that front shifts are especially hard on the battery and on mountainous singletrack that's used a lot. If I had north of $1k burning in my pocket I'd rather spend that on a Rohloff. That one allows shifts across the complete gear range at very low or zero speed which is very useful in MTB riding. To heck with the extra weight. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#38
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Coaster Brake Failure
On Thu, 28 Feb 2019 16:49:52 -0800, Joerg
wrote: On 2019-02-27 14:47, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Wed, 27 Feb 2019 08:09:04 -0800, Joerg wrote: On 2019-02-25 11:42, Tosspot wrote: On 2/25/19 5:06 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2019-02-25 07:29, Ralph Barone wrote: AMuzi wrote: https://www.bicycleretailer.com/reca...nd-aftermarket Mysterious. How the hell did that happen in a design 100+ years old? They must have improved it. In German there is the inofficial word "verschlimmbessern". It sums up the action of "Here we have a working design but let's optimize it anyhow" and then it all goes to pots. A very common scenario in software design. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp_D8r-2hwk Sometimes those things happen for reasons Tom mentioned. People using library modules that others have written, assuming everything in those we be just fine. And then things aren't. This is one of the reasons why I prefer gear with the least amount of electronics and software in there and, for example, will never be caught with electronic shifters on a bicycle. True, but then people also have had the metal shift cables break and been restricted to a single gear. It appears that everything is subject to failure :-) That is very rare, more so than a derailer ripped away by a rock. Main thing is, with batteries the number of available shifts per charge is finite. I was told that front shifts are especially hard on the battery and on mountainous singletrack that's used a lot. Well, I don't have an electric shift but I have read that folks that use the Shimano electric shift have to recharge, or replace the battery every year or so, which doesn't sound like an impossibly frequent task. If I had north of $1k burning in my pocket I'd rather spend that on a Rohloff. That one allows shifts across the complete gear range at very low or zero speed which is very useful in MTB riding. To heck with the extra weight. Good Lord! You have been talking about retirement, you own two cars, You live in a gated community and can't afford a thousand dollars? Look at it as an investment, after all you could change the rear wheel when you change bikes. The other day I was reading, in another group, about a guy that was buying a cheap hand phone for a pre-teen kid and it was "only" $180. I had assumed that all you "round eyes" were rich. -- Cheers, John B. |
#39
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Coaster Brake Failure
On Thu, 28 Feb 2019 16:49:52 -0800, Joerg wrote:
If I had north of $1k burning in my pocket I'd rather spend that on a Rohloff. That one allows shifts across the complete gear range at very low or zero speed which is very useful in MTB riding. To heck with the extra weight. Have they improved the reliability of Rohloffs now. At one stage it came with a "too much force" caveat and I viewed it as unreliable off road(real offf road). |
#40
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Coaster Brake Failure
On 2/28/2019 6:49 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-02-27 14:47, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Wed, 27 Feb 2019 08:09:04 -0800, Joerg wrote: On 2019-02-25 11:42, Tosspot wrote: On 2/25/19 5:06 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2019-02-25 07:29, Ralph Barone wrote: AMuzi wrote: https://www.bicycleretailer.com/reca...nd-aftermarket Mysterious. How the hell did that happen in a design 100+ years old? They must have improved it. In German there is the inofficial word "verschlimmbessern". It sums up the action of "Here we have a working design but let's optimize it anyhow" and then it all goes to pots. A very common scenario in software design. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp_D8r-2hwk Sometimes those things happen for reasons Tom mentioned. People using library modules that others have written, assuming everything in those we be just fine. And then things aren't. This is one of the reasons why I prefer gear with the least amount of electronics and software in there and, for example, will never be caught with electronic shifters on a bicycle. True, but then people also have had the metal shift cables break and been restricted to a single gear. It appears that everything is subject to failure :-) That is very rare, more so than a derailer ripped away by a rock. Main thing is, with batteries the number of available shifts per charge is finite. I was told that front shifts are especially hard on the battery and on mountainous singletrack that's used a lot. If I had north of $1k burning in my pocket I'd rather spend that on a Rohloff. That one allows shifts across the complete gear range at very low or zero speed which is very useful in MTB riding. To heck with the extra weight. Old fashioned junk. Try to keep up: https://bikerumor.com/2019/02/24/rot...pset-at-1785g/ -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
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