Handlebar fins

On 11/11/2016 9:13 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 11 Nov 2016 15:39:11 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 11/11/2016 2:21 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
I don't think the world needs $150 custom handlebar grips, but I've
seen stranger things sell.

I eventually decided that there's no upper limit to price for almost any
consumer product. And the price doesn't have to be related to quality.
Some people seem to relish the chance to pay more.

Conspicuous consumption in bicycles? Well, certainly price is no
object at the high end of the bicycling price scale:
http://www.bicycling.com/bikes-and-gear-features/reviews/10-outrageously-expensive-bikes
https://financesonline.com/the-worlds-10-most-expensive-bikes-cycling-with-style/
http://www.mostluxuriouslist.com/top-ten-most-expensive-bicycles-in-the-world/
but probably not for $150 custom handlebar grips, even if they are
gold sputtered and autographed by someone famous.

As for quality, you're right. Higher price tags are not a good
indication of quality. However, they are an excellent indication of
perceived quality. One of my friends was having trouble selling his
house. Instead of lowering his asking price to make it more
affordable, he raised the price. That brought in a completely
different class of buyer, whos perception of the value of the house
was quite different from the previous bargain hunters. There really
is an art to setting a suitable selling price.

I think I have a better way to make what hopefully will not become the
worlds most expensive bicycle grip. Start with modeling clay or
expensive molding compound inside a plastic bag in place of the grips.
Grab the clay and squeeze until it conforms to the shape of your
hands. Trim the result, let it harden, smooth with sandpaper, coat
with mold release, and make plaster molds. That should produce your
very own bicycle grip master, suitable for making additional grips as
needed.

Or, we can forget the molding process and go directly to a custom
grip. I found this article on custom handgun grips:
http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/showthread.php?415695-Molded-Pistol-Grip
which highlighted My-Grip:
https://www.amazon.com/FastCap-MY-GRIP-BLACK-Grip-Black/dp/B001RCU7CQ/
There is also a similar product for archery bow grips:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002QFZWDC/ref=pd_sbs_469_2
and hand tools:
http://www.fastcap.com/estore/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=9987
At room temperature, the plastic is fairly hard. Stuff it into
boiling water, and it softens enough to become pliable. Seems like it
would work on a bicycle grip, except that there would be no foam
rubber cushion, which is probably why it's advertised for bicycle
grips. Still, it's tempting to try.

I can relate success with two vaguely similar products, for completely
different purposes.

First, I suffered from Plantar Fasciitis for a long, frustrating time.
(My physician said once it becomes chronic, PF is very difficult to
cure.) Eventually, I was killing time in a running shoe store and
mentioned my PF. The sales guy talked me into trying Arch Mold insoles.
Put them in the oven for a while, slip them into your shoes, then
stand up. They mold to one's feet - and they cured my PF. Worked for a
friend, too.

Second, I bought a product intended to fit a violin chinrest to my jaw,
sort of an oval lump of rubbery stuff. Heat it in hot water, stick it
on the existing chinrest and play the fiddle, and it conforms very
nicely to one's bone structure.

I wonder what drop bars would look like with custom grips located at
the various hand positions? Probably too horrible to imagine.

As I mentioned earlier, back in the 1980s there was a product called
Morgan Grips that was briefly available. (I had cycling friends named
Morgan who were happy to try them for a while.) They were molded
plastic grips that came in four pieces that laced onto the bars. IIRC,
they were about double the width of the handlebar at the bends of the
tops, and at the end of the drops. To my eye, they didn't look that
bad. They did fail in the marketplace, though.

I failed to find an image online. I did find this vaguely related part,
though:
http://www.bikerumor.com/2014/09/02/...bicycle-grips/


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sat, 12 Nov 2016 20:05:28 +0700, John B Slocomb
wrote:

No! No!

Send us $25 and we will send you by return mail two of our special
grip design packages. (the red kit is Right!) Knead the enclosed
molding medium and hold the medium in each hand. It will become
somewhat warm and will quickly become semi rigid. (red with right,
green with left) Return your two custom molded design packages to us
with $50 dollars (no checks please) and we will return to you the
finished custom grips manufactured to fit YOUR hands to you within 15
days.

Only $25? I can't even ship an empty box in the USA for $25. An
empty box means zero product cost, but includes all the documentation,
taxes, overhead, salaries, and operating expenses. Last time I ran
the numbers (about 2001) shipping an empty box cost a small
electronics manufactory, it cost them $80. If you ship the grip molds
to Mexico or China and back, it might squeeze by at a lower cost.

Anyway, you forgot a step. The hardened grips can be made in the
manner you describe. However, my experience with lost wax investment
casting and sand casting predicts that there will need to be
considerable trimming, smoothing, and sanding in order to produce
something useable. Most people are not capable for doing this
correctly and are likely to damage the model. It could be done only
on the final rubbery grips, but if multiple grips are ordered from the
same model, it could turn into a major time burn. Better to do it on
the model.

Your idea would work, but methinks I have an amendment that might make
it easier and not involve any shipping. Make the model grips in the
manner you suggest, bury it in a two piece plaster mold, remove the
model, and fill the plaster mold with expanding rubber foam. I
haven't searched for the stuff, but I suspect it's available. The
resultant grips will not be as strong as something that's vinyl
covered or made from solid rubber or vinyl, but will certainly provide
a better cushion. They will hopefully look and feel like the common
open cell foam rubber grips which collect dirt and filth and last only
a few months. If they get dirty or fall apart, just mold another
pair.

I really think this is something an LBS can provide and not need to
ship it off somewhere for molding.

Many years ago, I hung around a local shop (now long gone) that made
prosthetics. I wasn't very interested in what was involved, but did
notice that one of the principles was making custom grips for someone
that had lost some fingers and needed some additional support.
Unfortunately, I wasn't paying attention and didn't see how they were
constructed.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sat, 12 Nov 2016 20:05:28 +0700, John B Slocomb
wrote:
Send us $25 and we will send you by return mail two of our special
grip design packages.

If it can be done for feet, it can probably be done for hands:

The Custom Fit Insoles
http://www.hammacher.com/Product/84992

I wonder if the same technology used for heat moldable shoe orthotics
would work for bicycle grips?
http://www.theinsolestore.com/heat-moldable-insoles.html
Heat them in an oven to soften.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL0rfp8VBTU (3:06)

Or, do it yourself without a mold.
GE Silicon II window and door sealant and glycerin:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwXbIzaOe88 (20:42)
He uses the plastic bag idea I previously suggested. Methinks it
should work with hand grips. One catch is that it takes a few days
for it to fully set.

Now, to figure out how to wrap it around the handlebars.
--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sat, 12 Nov 2016 09:30:18 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Sat, 12 Nov 2016 20:05:28 +0700, John B Slocomb
wrote:

No! No!

Send us $25 and we will send you by return mail two of our special
grip design packages. (the red kit is Right!) Knead the enclosed
molding medium and hold the medium in each hand. It will become
somewhat warm and will quickly become semi rigid. (red with right,
green with left) Return your two custom molded design packages to us
with $50 dollars (no checks please) and we will return to you the
finished custom grips manufactured to fit YOUR hands to you within 15
days.

Only $25? I can't even ship an empty box in the USA for $25. An
empty box means zero product cost, but includes all the documentation,
taxes, overhead, salaries, and operating expenses. Last time I ran
the numbers (about 2001) shipping an empty box cost a small
electronics manufactory, it cost them $80. If you ship the grip molds
to Mexico or China and back, it might squeeze by at a lower cost.


Goodness. I can remember when you could hire your sister-in-law for
$1.00 an hour (if you let her bring the latest curtain climber) and
she'd mail all the boxes you wanted.

But I remember one of Trump's campaign promises. $15.00 an hour
minimum wage and create a many, many new jobs. So hope is just around
the corner. The cost of mailing may go up but every one will be making
so much money it won't matter :-)

Anyway, you forgot a step. The hardened grips can be made in the
manner you describe. However, my experience with lost wax investment
casting and sand casting predicts that there will need to be
considerable trimming, smoothing, and sanding in order to produce
something useable. Most people are not capable for doing this
correctly and are likely to damage the model. It could be done only
on the final rubbery grips, but if multiple grips are ordered from the
same model, it could turn into a major time burn. Better to do it on
the model.

Your idea would work, but methinks I have an amendment that might make
it easier and not involve any shipping. Make the model grips in the
manner you suggest, bury it in a two piece plaster mold, remove the
model, and fill the plaster mold with expanding rubber foam. I
haven't searched for the stuff, but I suspect it's available. The
resultant grips will not be as strong as something that's vinyl
covered or made from solid rubber or vinyl, but will certainly provide
a better cushion. They will hopefully look and feel like the common
open cell foam rubber grips which collect dirt and filth and last only
a few months. If they get dirty or fall apart, just mold another
pair.

I really think this is something an LBS can provide and not need to
ship it off somewhere for molding.

Many years ago, I hung around a local shop (now long gone) that made
prosthetics. I wasn't very interested in what was involved, but did
notice that one of the principles was making custom grips for someone
that had lost some fingers and needed some additional support.
Unfortunately, I wasn't paying attention and didn't see how they were
constructed.

Then some bloke will discover "silicone bar tape" and custom grips
will go the way of the buggy whip :-)

Frank Krygowski considered Wed, 9 Nov 2016
20:41:40 -0800 (PST) the perfect time to write:

On Wednesday, November 9, 2016 at 11:00:29 PM UTC-5, Joy Beeson wrote:
On Sun, 06 Nov 2016 18:05:34 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

I don't believe that supporting your weight on your thumbs is a good
idea. A few bounces on the bicycle and you could get a broken thumb.
Supporting your weight on your palms seems much stronger.

The heels of the hands rest on the walker's handlebars; fingers and
thumbs wrap under. The fins make the resting part of the bar wider,
and the base of the thumb is the part of the heel that slops over onto
the fin.

Many years ago (1980s, I think) there was an uncommon handlebar covering called
"Morgan Grips" (or Morgan something, anyway). They were molded plastic, shaped
to be wider at certain regions (the tops & drops, IIRC) to give more comfort.
They didn't last long on the market, but that doesn't mean they were bad. Some
friends had some, but I never tried them.

Upright handlebars don't sweep back enough for fins to work, and
keeping the hands always in the same place would render drop
handlebars pointless -- Perhaps some recumbent bars could use fins?

I think one of the main benefits of a recumbent is that there's no pressure on
your hands. Fins probably aren't needed.

- Frank Krygowski

I suppose the shaped handles on my crutches could be described as
fins, and they fit the hands as described.
They are a fairly standard type here, made by the largest supplier of
such devices in the UK, Days Healthcare of Bridgend.
Mine are their popular model 124A, although the NHS uses a cheaper
model (also made by Days) without the shaped handles.
Guess why I went out and bought my own?
They are indeed MUCH easier on the hands, and of course with crutches,
the design has to take account of the need to carry the user's full
weight, which would be a very rare event on a bicycle handlebar.
I'm sure a search online would find a picture of them somewhere,
particularly with manufacturer and model information.
Sure enough -
http://www.dayshealthcare.co.uk/prod...and-grips.aspx
although there doesn't seem to be a picture with enough detail to see
the ergonomic handgrip in much detail, you can clearly see it isn't
just a round handle.
They offer the same handle on walking sticks and various other aids..
I wonder if, given the known therapeutic benefits of cycling, they
might be interested in producing a cycle handgrip based on the same
design - the tube inside the moulding appears to be about the same
size as a normal handlebar, so they could be quite cheap to produce as
the company already has a suitable mould shape.
I'm sure similar shaped handles are available from their competitors
as well.
If people express sufficient interest, I'll try to sort out some
pictures of the grips themselves (and if I can find someone to help,
my own hand positioning on them - it would be tricky to be holding the
camera and the crutch at the same time, although careful use of a
tripod and the timer release might make it possible to do the pictures
without assistance) then I can post them on my photobucket account and
put a link here.

Frank Krygowski considered Sat, 12 Nov 2016
10:27:58 -0500 the perfect time to write:

On 11/11/2016 9:13 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 11 Nov 2016 15:39:11 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 11/11/2016 2:21 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
I don't think the world needs $150 custom handlebar grips, but I've
seen stranger things sell.

I eventually decided that there's no upper limit to price for almost any
consumer product. And the price doesn't have to be related to quality.
Some people seem to relish the chance to pay more.

Conspicuous consumption in bicycles? Well, certainly price is no
object at the high end of the bicycling price scale:
http://www.bicycling.com/bikes-and-gear-features/reviews/10-outrageously-expensive-bikes
https://financesonline.com/the-worlds-10-most-expensive-bikes-cycling-with-style/
http://www.mostluxuriouslist.com/top-ten-most-expensive-bicycles-in-the-world/
but probably not for $150 custom handlebar grips, even if they are
gold sputtered and autographed by someone famous.

As for quality, you're right. Higher price tags are not a good
indication of quality. However, they are an excellent indication of
perceived quality. One of my friends was having trouble selling his
house. Instead of lowering his asking price to make it more
affordable, he raised the price. That brought in a completely
different class of buyer, whos perception of the value of the house
was quite different from the previous bargain hunters. There really
is an art to setting a suitable selling price.

I think I have a better way to make what hopefully will not become the
worlds most expensive bicycle grip. Start with modeling clay or
expensive molding compound inside a plastic bag in place of the grips.
Grab the clay and squeeze until it conforms to the shape of your
hands. Trim the result, let it harden, smooth with sandpaper, coat
with mold release, and make plaster molds. That should produce your
very own bicycle grip master, suitable for making additional grips as
needed.

Or, we can forget the molding process and go directly to a custom
grip. I found this article on custom handgun grips:
http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/showthread.php?415695-Molded-Pistol-Grip
which highlighted My-Grip:
https://www.amazon.com/FastCap-MY-GRIP-BLACK-Grip-Black/dp/B001RCU7CQ/
There is also a similar product for archery bow grips:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002QFZWDC/ref=pd_sbs_469_2
and hand tools:
http://www.fastcap.com/estore/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=9987
At room temperature, the plastic is fairly hard. Stuff it into
boiling water, and it softens enough to become pliable. Seems like it
would work on a bicycle grip, except that there would be no foam
rubber cushion, which is probably why it's advertised for bicycle
grips. Still, it's tempting to try.

I can relate success with two vaguely similar products, for completely
different purposes.

First, I suffered from Plantar Fasciitis for a long, frustrating time.
(My physician said once it becomes chronic, PF is very difficult to
cure.) Eventually, I was killing time in a running shoe store and
mentioned my PF. The sales guy talked me into trying Arch Mold insoles.
Put them in the oven for a while, slip them into your shoes, then
stand up. They mold to one's feet - and they cured my PF. Worked for a
friend, too.

Second, I bought a product intended to fit a violin chinrest to my jaw,
sort of an oval lump of rubbery stuff. Heat it in hot water, stick it
on the existing chinrest and play the fiddle, and it conforms very
nicely to one's bone structure.

I wonder what drop bars would look like with custom grips located at
the various hand positions? Probably too horrible to imagine.

As I mentioned earlier, back in the 1980s there was a product called
Morgan Grips that was briefly available. (I had cycling friends named
Morgan who were happy to try them for a while.) They were molded
plastic grips that came in four pieces that laced onto the bars. IIRC,
they were about double the width of the handlebar at the bends of the
tops, and at the end of the drops. To my eye, they didn't look that
bad. They did fail in the marketplace, though.

I failed to find an image online. I did find this vaguely related part,
though:
http://www.bikerumor.com/2014/09/02/...bicycle-grips/

It's probably much easier to construct a grip which slips over the end
of a handlebar than clamps around it without the fastenings being at
best an irritation.