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  #1  
Old October 27th 05, 02:02 PM
DD
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So what set up do you use or suggest for helmets and visors with
recumbents. At the wrong time of day it can be a bit glaring riding the
couch trike towards the sunny side of town. Most bike helmets are made
for road and MTB, a different posture from that of the laid back crowd.
The problem is more acute on my lowracer and it is impractical to ride
in the early hours of the morning mostly one-handed, the other shielding
the eyes from the sun. What fixes or good helmets do you recommend?

(and if Mr Sunset Lowracer pipes up to explain that he only got his name
because at sunset he only rides his lowracer away from the sun that
ain't what I mean). Thanks for any advice on visors and whatnot.
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  #2  
Old October 27th 05, 02:24 PM
Michael Plog
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I have the same problem. My wife solved hers by wearing a baseball
cap under her helmet. It looks a little funny but when we go into a
store she has her hat on and does not have messed up hair.

I bought a little visor--the plastic kind found in craft stores and
cheap places. This one has no crown but is just a head-band and
"bill." The visor is the same color as the helmet. I simply glued
the visor to the helmet. I experimented a little and found that any
of the super glues work fine. It might look a little strange, but it
doesn't seem very noticeable since everything is the same color.
Anyway, it tends
to work, but I still have to bring my chin to my chest at times to get
the sun out of my eyes.

I did send an email to helmet manufacturing companies, with just this
idea, suggesting a longer snap-in visor. I got an email back saying
the suggestion would be passed on to the design people. Perhaps if
you sent a similar email, along with others from this group, someone
might come up with something. Until then, I'll continue to glue cheap
plastic visors to my helmets.


"DD" wrote in message
...
So what set up do you use or suggest for helmets and visors with
recumbents. At the wrong time of day it can be a bit glaring riding

the
couch trike towards the sunny side of town. Most bike helmets are

made
for road and MTB, a different posture from that of the laid back

crowd.
The problem is more acute on my lowracer and it is impractical to

ride
in the early hours of the morning mostly one-handed, the other

shielding
the eyes from the sun. What fixes or good helmets do you recommend?

(and if Mr Sunset Lowracer pipes up to explain that he only got his

name
because at sunset he only rides his lowracer away from the sun that
ain't what I mean). Thanks for any advice on visors and whatnot.




  #3  
Old October 27th 05, 02:51 PM
Peter Clinch
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DD wrote:
So what set up do you use or suggest for helmets and visors with
recumbents. At the wrong time of day it can be a bit glaring riding the
couch trike towards the sunny side of town.


Avoid/solve the problem with a traditional cycling cap. No need to snap
up the peak pro-racer style and it keeps a low sun out of your eyes very
effectively IME.

If you must wear a helmet it should fit underneath, but do be aware
there's no conclusive proof that helmets do anything to reduce your
chances of a serious injury, looking at the population level data from
everywhere they're in use, so just wear the cotton cap and be comparably
safe but much more comfortable.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

  #4  
Old October 27th 05, 02:52 PM
Jon Meinecke
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"DD" wrote

So what set up do you use or suggest for helmets and
visors with recumbents.


I've used a visor extension made from thin closed-cell foam
(the sort available in hobby/art stores, about 1/8" thick). Simply
cut a crescent shape and hot glue or double-sided tape it
to the underside of the existing visor. Mine sticks out only
1/2 an inch or so beyond the original visor but improves
its usefulness dramatically.

Others have recommended using plastic or cloth sports visors
or ball caps.

On my newer Giro helmet, the visor seems a bit longer and
I haven't added an extension. YMMV.

Jon Meinecke


  #5  
Old October 28th 05, 01:51 AM
Mark Leuck
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"DD" wrote in message
...
So what set up do you use or suggest for helmets and visors with
recumbents. At the wrong time of day it can be a bit glaring riding the
couch trike towards the sunny side of town. Most bike helmets are made
for road and MTB, a different posture from that of the laid back crowd.
The problem is more acute on my lowracer and it is impractical to ride
in the early hours of the morning mostly one-handed, the other shielding
the eyes from the sun. What fixes or good helmets do you recommend?

(and if Mr Sunset Lowracer pipes up to explain that he only got his name
because at sunset he only rides his lowracer away from the sun that
ain't what I mean). Thanks for any advice on visors and whatnot.


Mr Sunset Lowracer got his name from a low racer made by a now dead company,
you don't want to egg him on about it or he'll post that one picture over
and over again

Which reminds me, hey Tom don't you have any OTHER pictures of that bike?


  #6  
Old October 28th 05, 05:20 AM
Jeff Wills
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Michael Plog wrote:
I have the same problem. My wife solved hers by wearing a baseball
cap under her helmet. It looks a little funny but when we go into a
store she has her hat on and does not have messed up hair.


My wife also used the cap-under-the-helmet kludge, but then I got her a
"Carbon Spider" visor: http://www.lobosolo.com/visor/ . I applied it so
it comes down to the same height as the cap's bill, and she likes it
lots. It's sold by JW Stephens, a SoCal recumbenteer.

Jeff

  #7  
Old October 28th 05, 03:33 PM
Butch
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I have added a simple extension to my existing Visor using a product
called Darico Foamies, a kind of stiff foam rubber, I use black. It is
available in any craft or hobby store and I think at Wal Mart. I
suggest making it large and then cutting it back if you find it to
large. It is easy to use cuts with sisors? I simply glue it in place
using Goop or the Wal Mart equivalent Welder (sold in paint
department). I have no problem with it in the wind. Oh yes a sheet of
this Foamies big enough for 2 visors is $1 to $2 dollars depending on
the thickness you decide to use.
For Mr. Peter Clinch, I wish you the best in your riding, but using a
Helmet is a lot like smoking you don't need an expert or statistics to
show you what to do only common sense. FYI I was riding a Century here
in Florida a few years ago, my recumbent group rides normally over 6000
miles a year, when I thought maybe I will stop wearing a helmet, quite
by chance I am sure my buddy a experienced Gold Rush rider started
fooling with his water bottles and went off the trail, he made the
fatal mistake of putting his right foot down (yes he had good clips), I
was right behind him and watched as he pivoted about his planted foot
breaking his leg in two places and landed on his forehead on the side
of the rocky R to T Wilthalacooche Trail. His helmet visor was split
and his helmet cracked but he did not hurt his head. If that is not
enough I was riding my Rans V2 in slightly slippery conditions going to
fast and I fell in front of my buddy on a Rans Vrex, I can show you the
helmet with the impression of his chain ring in it if you want. To put
it in simple terms "**** Happens", its your life, you know what it is
worth.

Happy Trails Butch

  #8  
Old October 28th 05, 04:35 PM
Peter Clinch
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Butch wrote:

For Mr. Peter Clinch, I wish you the best in your riding, but using a
Helmet is a lot like smoking you don't need an expert or statistics to
show you what to do only common sense.


Then why doesn't the "common sense" factor into any improvement
whatsoever in serious injury rates anywhere helmet wearing rates
increase? It's common sense that that would surely happen if they
improved matters, but they have a track record of doing *nothing*.

To put
it in simple terms "**** Happens", its your life, you know what it is
worth.


It certainly does. And it continues to happen wearing helmets, and
there is no national population anywhere who have shown an improvement
in their serious head injury rate from wearing cycle helmets.

All of your anecdotes, and all of everyone else's anecdotes, go into
full population data. And that data has serious head injury rates
unaffected by helmet wearing. So either your anecdotes of being /sure/
helmets must make things much better are balanced by incidents where
they make things worse, or you're assuming a much worse incident would
have transpired without a helmet than would have actually been the case.

The population figures don't tell us what we think /might/ happen, but
what *has* happened. And what has happened from increased helmet
wearing is no real change to serious head injury rates. That's what
*has* happened, common sense or not.

Here's a quote from Brian Walker, who runs Head Protection Evaluation,
the company that test helmets meet standards in the UK. He's an
accredited expert witness too, I believe:

"the very eminent QC under whose instruction I was privileged to work,
tried repeatedly to persuade the equally eminent neurosurgeons acting
for either side, and the technical expert, to state that one must be
safer wearing a helmet than without. All three refused to so do, stating
that they had seen severe brain damage and fatal injury both with and
without cycle helmets being worn. In their view, the performance of
cycle helmets is much too complex a subject for such a sweeping claim to
be made"

There is very much more to it than "common sense". I used to always
wear a helmet for reasons of "common sense", but the more you
investigate the reality the more you find you're unlikely to save
yourself a serious injury, and /exactly/ the same logic of "****
happens" applies to being a pedestrian. Hundreds of people in the UK
are killed in simple trips and falls every year, so since "**** happens"
and it's common sense to guard against it and you feel a cycle helmet
can save significant injury, do you wear one as a pedestrian, or around
the house, especially using stairs? Your logical argument for helmet
use on a cycle suggests you should, so if not, *why* not?

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

  #9  
Old October 29th 05, 12:03 AM
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On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 16:35:36 +0100, Peter Clinch
wrote:

Butch wrote:

For Mr. Peter Clinch, I wish you the best in your riding, but using a
Helmet is a lot like smoking you don't need an expert or statistics to
show you what to do only common sense.


Then why doesn't the "common sense" factor into any improvement
whatsoever in serious injury rates anywhere helmet wearing rates
increase? It's common sense that that would surely happen if they
improved matters, but they have a track record of doing *nothing*.

To put
it in simple terms "**** Happens", its your life, you know what it is
worth.


It certainly does. And it continues to happen wearing helmets, and
there is no national population anywhere who have shown an improvement
in their serious head injury rate from wearing cycle helmets.


You know, stats are very interesting, sorta like facts, one man's is
another's lies.

Can you say for certain that if no one were to wear helmets, the
situation would not be worse than it is?

What I know for a fact is that a helmet kept me from making a trip to
an ER for stitches at a minimum. Why can I say that? A pointed rock
PENETRATED the helmet deep enough to scratch my scalp. That helmet is
certainly tougher than my skin. The jury is out on the denisty of my
skull, however. So, figure a $70 helmet versus an ER bill for wound
cleaning and stitching.

Makes economic sense to me.


All of your anecdotes, and all of everyone else's anecdotes, go into
full population data. And that data has serious head injury rates
unaffected by helmet wearing. So either your anecdotes of being /sure/
helmets must make things much better are balanced by incidents where
they make things worse, or you're assuming a much worse incident would
have transpired without a helmet than would have actually been the case.

The population figures don't tell us what we think /might/ happen, but
what *has* happened. And what has happened from increased helmet
wearing is no real change to serious head injury rates. That's what
*has* happened, common sense or not.


Did he allow for the increased population that are riding bikes today,
the advent of downhilling at breakneck speeds, increased (and more
hostile) traffic on the roads?

If not, he only taken a snap shot in time looking at the past - not
into what is coming.

Any research can be skewed in any direction the researcher wants. And
merely forgetting to look at one variable can have the same effect -
skewing.


Here's a quote from Brian Walker, who runs Head Protection Evaluation,
the company that test helmets meet standards in the UK. He's an
accredited expert witness too, I believe:

"the very eminent QC under whose instruction I was privileged to work,
tried repeatedly to persuade the equally eminent neurosurgeons acting
for either side, and the technical expert, to state that one must be
safer wearing a helmet than without. All three refused to so do, stating
that they had seen severe brain damage and fatal injury both with and
without cycle helmets being worn. In their view, the performance of
cycle helmets is much too complex a subject for such a sweeping claim to
be made"


This is an interesting bit. No helmet can protect all users from every
possible accident. I know someone who headered into a concrete
lamppost base and broke his neck. Dead with or without helmet, in this
case.

So, in terms of "serious" accident, the jury may be out.

In terms of lesser cuts and bruises? Doesn't look like anyone is
addressing that specifically. Sure, my accident might not have killed
me or brooken my skull (serious) were I without a helmet, but I do
know that I did not have to go to the ER and based on the helmet
damage and its relative strength compared to my scalp, I probably
would have had to without a helmet.

And there is the rub of a shortsightedness in the research - it cannot
allow for lesser accidents that do not require hospital reports
(serious). It cannot track or effectively report the impacts of
accidents (with or without helmets) where the injury did not require a
hospital visit. How many of them would have gone from a banged head
with a helmet to an ER visit without a helmet? That data is totally
missing. And that is some very pertinent data.

BTW, don't ever denigrate anecdotal evidence. It means little in
isolation, but in aggregate, points to areas where deeper research is
needed. It is like that fleeting warning that lets you know there are
more serious matters coming.


There is very much more to it than "common sense". I used to always
wear a helmet for reasons of "common sense", but the more you
investigate the reality the more you find you're unlikely to save
yourself a serious injury, and /exactly/ the same logic of "****
happens" applies to being a pedestrian. Hundreds of people in the UK
are killed in simple trips and falls every year, so since "**** happens"
and it's common sense to guard against it and you feel a cycle helmet
can save significant injury, do you wear one as a pedestrian, or around
the house, especially using stairs? Your logical argument for helmet
use on a cycle suggests you should, so if not, *why* not?


Irrelevant. Walking, or taking a shower for that matter, is not
considered as being a hazardous activity; riding in traffic or
downhilling are. You are mixing apples and oranges to make your case.


jim

  #10  
Old October 29th 05, 01:36 AM
Butch
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Ah yes statistics! I worked as an engineer for more than 30 years
and I can tell you what we used to say about statistics. Figures lie
and liars figure. Meaning of course that statistics are great if the
data is great but that almost never happens. No one ever took data
when my friend flipped his Gold Rush, no one ever got data when I fell
in front of the VREX and no one took data when I watched an older man
riding a diamond frame pull his handle bars off the bike and split his
skull(no helmet). You're right many people get hurt in many ways, I
just spent $45.00 for two bath mats (and I am cheap) cause I know how
easy it is to fall in a bath tub or shower and I also know how easy it
is to fall on a bike or recumbent, (I have seen a top rated trike flip
as well), that is why I wear a helmet, I don't care what you do but I
do care when you try to give a novice cyclist misguided advice. I know
helmets are not perfect, but in my opinion they are a lot better than
nothing. Oh yes now I remember another time when I think my helmet
saved me from injury, I fell when I was crossing a slippery section of
black top (in humid weather here it sometimes collects some sort of
slimy allgae or what ever) I slid for a long time fortunately my
fairing took much of the skid my head first went up and I remember
trying to stop it from coming down so I wouldn't hit the pavement, I
could not do it, I did tuck my chin just a bit and hit the side of the
helmet cracking it slightly. I lost a lot of skin and rode the rest of
the way home with my bloody butt hanging out but I didn't hurt my head.
Funny I couldn't find a single statistical data taker on the entire 46
mile trail that day. I can tell you one thing its to late to put it on
when you are sliding down that black top at 18 mph.

Happy Trails Butch

 




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