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#1
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Cassette ratchet problem or worn cog??
Bike is a Specialized Allez with less than 1500 dry road miles... Shimano
Ultegra STI drivetrain (8-speed).... cleaned regularly... Replaced my chain the other day (working on theory of replace chain #before# it shows signs of wearing out in order to get more life out of cassette/chainrings)... neither front nor rear cogs appear worn in any way and besides at this level of mileage so they should'nt be. However I now have this odd problem where on ONE cog only on the cassette (3rd gear) I am experiencing what I can only describe as the sort of thing that would happen if a pawl on the ratchet slips or fails to engage and this is only noticeable when I am applying a fair bit of effort to the pedals... the crank will suddenly "give" and turn forwards a fraction of a rotation without the wheel turning and annd alarming "clunk" as it re-engages. It appears to be specific to this one gear. As stated all cogs appear fine. trying to reason this one out logically gives me a couple of problems: If a pawl on the rear ratchet is failing/having a problem of some kind - then why not ALL gears? If the chain (new SRAM PC68 as I previously fitted) has a problem - then why not ALL gears? One thing I did differently during the chain replacement this time was I had to fix a link back on as I had taken off one link too many (my cycle seems to prefer 104 links - the chain is supplied as 114 links). I was not too keen on concept of refixing a link and re-using pin I had previously taken out using the proper removal tool but a quick call to my LBS and they re-assured me ok. Initially this link was stiff so I had to gently prise the two plates apart VERY slightly to lose the stiffness after I had refitted the pin. Besides the traditional slow reverse turning of the pedals reveals no lifting links going through the jockey wheels etc. The re-fitted pin is not protuding beyond the levels its neighbouring ones do so chain APPEARS fine. After this "repair" I joined the chain properly using the supplied Powerlink. One idea could be that this particular cog on rear cassette is worn and maybe I should replace it but unles my eyes are deceiving me it looks fine. (Maybe someone could advise me on some of the more subtle signs of teeth-wear I should be looking for?) So am up a gum tree... any ideas??? |
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#2
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Cassette ratchet problem or worn cog??
On Mon, 5 Dec 2005 17:52:46 -0000, "Deep Thought"
wrote: If a pawl on the rear ratchet is failing/having a problem of some kind - then why not ALL gears? That's the clue. It's just in that one sprocket. If the chain (new SRAM PC68 as I previously fitted) has a problem - then why not ALL gears? By any chance, is the one that's troublesme also the one that you use most? One thing I did differently during the chain replacement this time was I had to fix a link back on as I had taken off one link too many (my cycle seems to prefer 104 links - the chain is supplied as 114 links). I was not too keen on concept of refixing a link and re-using pin I had previously taken out using the proper removal tool but a quick call to my LBS and they re-assured me ok. Initially this link was stiff so I had to gently prise the two plates apart VERY slightly to lose the stiffness after I had refitted the pin. Besides the traditional slow reverse turning of the pedals reveals no lifting links going through the jockey wheels etc. The re-fitted pin is not protuding beyond the levels its neighbouring ones do so chain APPEARS fine. After this "repair" I joined the chain properly using the supplied Powerlink. This might be the source of your problem, but IMO it's less likely than a worn single sprocket; once again, if the chain was the problem, I'd expect it to occur in multiple gears. One idea could be that this particular cog on rear cassette is worn and maybe I should replace it but unles my eyes are deceiving me it looks fine. (Maybe someone could advise me on some of the more subtle signs of teeth-wear I should be looking for?) Look for burrs along the driven side of each tooth, and closely examine it for bent teeth as well. The old, slightly sloppier chain may have been more tolerant of a tooth that was slightly out of whack. That's just my two cents' worth; others will have additional advice, and some of it may be better than mine. -- Typoes are a feature, not a bug. Some gardening required to reply via email. Words processed in a facility that contains nuts. |
#3
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Cassette ratchet problem or worn cog??
A shy person writes:
Bike is a Specialized Allez with less than 1500 dry road miles... Shimano Ultegra STI drivetrain (8-speed)... cleaned regularly... Replaced my chain the other day (working on theory of replace chain #before# it shows signs of wearing out in order to get more life out of cassette/chainrings)... neither front nor rear cogs appear worn in any way and besides at this level of mileage so they shouldn't be. However I now have this odd problem where on ONE cog only on the cassette (3rd gear) I am experiencing what I can only describe as the sort of thing that would happen if a pawl on the ratchet slips or fails to engage and this is only noticeable when I am applying a fair bit of effort to the pedals... the crank will suddenly "give" and turn forwards a fraction of a rotation without the wheel turning and alarming "clunk" as it re-engages. It appears to be specific to this one gear. As stated all cogs appear fine. trying to reason this one out logically gives me a couple of problems: If a pawl on the rear ratchet is failing/having a problem of some kind - then why not ALL gears? If the chain (new SRAM PC68 as I previously fitted) has a problem - then why not ALL gears? The one that skips is more worn than the others. Replace the sprocket. The same pawl holds the load independent of where the chain is running. Jobst Brandt |
#4
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Cassette ratchet problem or worn cog??
On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 17:52:46 +0000, Deep Thought wrote:
Bike is a Specialized Allez with less than 1500 dry road miles... Shimano Ultegra STI drivetrain (8-speed).... cleaned regularly... Replaced my chain the other day (working on theory of replace chain #before# it shows signs of wearing out Umm, what are "signs of wearing out"? Measure the chain. If 12 links are more than 12 + 1/16 inches long, it's worn. in order to get more life out of cassette/chainrings)... neither front nor rear cogs appear worn in any way and besides at this level of mileage so they should'nt be. However I now have this odd problem where on ONE cog only on the cassette (3rd gear) I am experiencing what I can only describe as the sort of thing that would happen if a pawl on the ratchet slips or fails to engage and this is only noticeable when I am applying a fair bit of effort to the pedals... the crank will suddenly "give" and turn forwards a fraction of a rotation without the wheel turning and annd alarming "clunk" as it re-engages. It appears to be specific to this one gear. As stated all cogs appear fine. trying to reason this one out logically gives me a couple of problems: If a pawl on the rear ratchet is failing/having a problem of some kind - then why not ALL gears? Your logic is faulty because you are ignoring other possible causes. These symptoms are classic. Let me guess: that one cog in back is the one you use most. Your chain is skipping. The cog is worn, whether or not it looks that way to you. The old chain, even at only 1500 miles, had worn too much. As a chain wears, it becomes longer, "stretches" (it doesn't really stretch, but the worn pins give more space between links), and so the cog wears so that the slighttly-more-than 1/2" spacing between links fits the cog. New chain does not fit, so climbs out of the sprocket, usually when you are applying a lot of force. It has nothing to do with the ratcheting mechanism, which affects all sprockets equally. Replace the cassette. In a just world you could replace only the sprocket that is worn, but 1) they are all riveted together, so you would have to grind off the head of the rivets (no big deal), and 2) a single sprocket, even if it is available, would cost darn near what a full cassette will, and it probably isn't available, and 3) others are probably worn, too. Next time, clean and re-lube your chain more often. That will extend chain life. One idea could be that this particular cog on rear cassette is worn and maybe I should replace it but unles my eyes are deceiving me it looks fine. (Maybe someone could advise me on some of the more subtle signs of teeth-wear I should be looking for?) Your eyes deceive you. The best test to see if a sprocket is worn is to try it with a new chain. If it skips, and yours did, it's worn. -- David L. Johnson __o | As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not _`\(,_ | certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to (_)/ (_) | reality. -- Albert Einstein |
#5
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Cassette ratchet problem or worn cog??
This is a case where logic is more reliable than what you *think* you see
with your own eyes. As Jobst says, everything points to a problem with that one cog. |
#6
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Cassette ratchet problem or worn cog??
....looks like new cassette then. I am staggered regards sprocket wear at
this mileage however - I mean I cleaned the chain so often I could have been described as becoming rather anal about it... 8-speed HG90 Shimano 12/21 cassettes are becoming hens teeth - I assume a Dura Ace 12/21 8 speeder should suffice? "David L. Johnson" wrote in message news On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 17:52:46 +0000, Deep Thought wrote: Bike is a Specialized Allez with less than 1500 dry road miles... Shimano Ultegra STI drivetrain (8-speed).... cleaned regularly... Replaced my chain the other day (working on theory of replace chain #before# it shows signs of wearing out Umm, what are "signs of wearing out"? Measure the chain. If 12 links are more than 12 + 1/16 inches long, it's worn. in order to get more life out of cassette/chainrings)... neither front nor rear cogs appear worn in any way and besides at this level of mileage so they should'nt be. However I now have this odd problem where on ONE cog only on the cassette (3rd gear) I am experiencing what I can only describe as the sort of thing that would happen if a pawl on the ratchet slips or fails to engage and this is only noticeable when I am applying a fair bit of effort to the pedals... the crank will suddenly "give" and turn forwards a fraction of a rotation without the wheel turning and annd alarming "clunk" as it re-engages. It appears to be specific to this one gear. As stated all cogs appear fine. trying to reason this one out logically gives me a couple of problems: If a pawl on the rear ratchet is failing/having a problem of some kind - then why not ALL gears? Your logic is faulty because you are ignoring other possible causes. These symptoms are classic. Let me guess: that one cog in back is the one you use most. Your chain is skipping. The cog is worn, whether or not it looks that way to you. The old chain, even at only 1500 miles, had worn too much. As a chain wears, it becomes longer, "stretches" (it doesn't really stretch, but the worn pins give more space between links), and so the cog wears so that the slighttly-more-than 1/2" spacing between links fits the cog. New chain does not fit, so climbs out of the sprocket, usually when you are applying a lot of force. It has nothing to do with the ratcheting mechanism, which affects all sprockets equally. Replace the cassette. In a just world you could replace only the sprocket that is worn, but 1) they are all riveted together, so you would have to grind off the head of the rivets (no big deal), and 2) a single sprocket, even if it is available, would cost darn near what a full cassette will, and it probably isn't available, and 3) others are probably worn, too. Next time, clean and re-lube your chain more often. That will extend chain life. One idea could be that this particular cog on rear cassette is worn and maybe I should replace it but unles my eyes are deceiving me it looks fine. (Maybe someone could advise me on some of the more subtle signs of teeth-wear I should be looking for?) Your eyes deceive you. The best test to see if a sprocket is worn is to try it with a new chain. If it skips, and yours did, it's worn. -- David L. Johnson __o | As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not _`\(,_ | certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to (_)/ (_) | reality. -- Albert Einstein |
#7
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Cassette ratchet problem or worn cog??
On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 22:06:37 +0000, Deep Thought wrote:
...looks like new cassette then. I am staggered regards sprocket wear at this mileage however - I mean I cleaned the chain so often I could have been described as becoming rather anal about it... Maybe it's a technique issue. I don't think those on-the-bike scrubbers do much good, and wiping the chain down with a rag does harm by pushing grit inside. I always remove the chain, soak and agitate in solvent, scrub, dry, then measure. Wear is not entirely unavoidable, but I agree that 1500 miles is low. -- David L. Johnson __o | And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all _`\(,_ | mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so (_)/ (_) | that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. [1 Corinth. 13:2] |
#8
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Cassette ratchet problem or worn cog??
David L. Johnson writes:
...looks like new cassette then. I am staggered regards sprocket wear at this mileage however - I mean I cleaned the chain so often I could have been described as becoming rather anal about it... Maybe it's a technique issue. I don't think those on-the-bike scrubbers do much good, and wiping the chain down with a rag does harm by pushing grit inside. I always remove the chain, soak and agitate in solvent, scrub, dry, then measure. Wear is not entirely unavoidable, but I agree that 1500 miles is low. Hold it. How worn was the chain. Chain cleaning only helps the chain, not the sprockets on which it runs. If the chain was significantly out of pitch it would readily cause skipping sprockets. Was the old chain ever measured for wear? Jobst Brandt |
#9
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Cassette ratchet problem or worn cog??
Have replaced the cassette since I last wrote to you folks (had a new HG90
12/21 I bought from a US dealer a year or so ago and was keeping for spare - thank god for the global marketplace that is eBay) - seems to have cured the problem. Close look at the old cassette shows the problem sprocket in particular had tiny little "lip" on each of the teeth...compared to all the other sprockets this was the only one showing a "lip" on the right hand side on each tooth. Will have to search for other 8-speed Ultegra spares now (hate not having something in reserve) - while I think about it - I thought the Dura-Ace 8-speed cassette made a viable replacement but a seller of one has advised me the following: Quote: only really works with Dura Ace 8 speed shifters and rear mech. This is due to the pitch of the cassette, which is the distance between the middle of two sprockets which was unique to that groupset. Is this a myth as I was sure all 8 speed Shimano was interchangeable?? wrote in message ... David L. Johnson writes: ...looks like new cassette then. I am staggered regards sprocket wear at this mileage however - I mean I cleaned the chain so often I could have been described as becoming rather anal about it... Maybe it's a technique issue. I don't think those on-the-bike scrubbers do much good, and wiping the chain down with a rag does harm by pushing grit inside. I always remove the chain, soak and agitate in solvent, scrub, dry, then measure. Wear is not entirely unavoidable, but I agree that 1500 miles is low. Hold it. How worn was the chain. Chain cleaning only helps the chain, not the sprockets on which it runs. If the chain was significantly out of pitch it would readily cause skipping sprockets. Was the old chain ever measured for wear? Jobst Brandt |
#10
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Cassette ratchet problem or worn cog??
All the cogs and gear rings will wear down at different rates. This is
because of terrain factors and rider gear preferences. If you are using the third cog for most of your riding, then this cog will wear out the earliest. Try varying your gear / cog combination when riding as to not be to complacent in using one combination most of the time. |
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