Trike Questions

"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...
Jeff Grippe top posted:
At the risk of sounding like ED, I would have to say that trikes are not
safe in urban or suburban environments unless you live someplace like
Portland or Seattle that has gone out of the way to make cycling safer.

I make this statement as someone who sustained a spinal cord injury from
having been hit by a car while on a trike while on a designated bike
route. I suppose I'm lucky to still be alive. The whole experience has
changed my thinking about where it is and is not safe to ride. The day
before I was hit I would have said that good riding habits are enough to
keep you safe. But it isn't just the cyclists that have to behave. The
cars have to behave as well. Since they aren't going to, I would have to
say that cycling, in general, on roads that are shared by cars, isn't
safe.

Sorry about your accident, but your misfortune is a statistically rare
event, and should not scare others off. People are killed by lightning,
but one should not stay inside during the entire season when thunderstorms
could occur.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
LOCAL CACTUS EATS CYCLIST - datakoll

Sometimes I tell myself that but:

1. Lightning is random
2. Safe cycling is possible if accomodations are made for cyclists.

Most places, including the place where I live have not made any real
accomodations for cyclists. The reason that cycling accidents are rare is
that there are so few people who cycle. If more people cycled then the
number of incidents would increase and you wouldn't be able to call it
"statistically rare".

Before the accident, I had the experience, as I sure we have all had, of the
abusive driver who tries to run you off the road. Lightning isn't personal.
Car drivers aren't aware of cyclists and some are down right hostile.

No matter how rare these accidents may be, they are preventable. A lightning
strike is not.

Jeff

"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...
[...]
Sorry about your accident, but your misfortune is a statistically rare
event, and should not scare others off. People are killed by lightning,
but one should not stay inside during the entire season when thunderstorms
could occur.

I strongly recommend never going out of your house under any circumstances
whatsoever. Not only that, but stay in bed as much as possible and in a
storm get under your bed. You can't be too safe when all the world is trying
to kill you dead. Hells Bells, even your own body is trying to kill you each
and every day!

Statistics are for fools and charlatans. Same goes for so-called facts. It
is always best to consult wise men such as Ed Dolan the Great who knows
everything there is to know worth knowing.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Jeff Grippe wrote:
"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...
Jeff Grippe top posted:
At the risk of sounding like ED, I would have to say that trikes are not
safe in urban or suburban environments unless you live someplace like
Portland or Seattle that has gone out of the way to make cycling safer.

I make this statement as someone who sustained a spinal cord injury from
having been hit by a car while on a trike while on a designated bike
route. I suppose I'm lucky to still be alive. The whole experience has
changed my thinking about where it is and is not safe to ride. The day
before I was hit I would have said that good riding habits are enough to
keep you safe. But it isn't just the cyclists that have to behave. The
cars have to behave as well. Since they aren't going to, I would have to
say that cycling, in general, on roads that are shared by cars, isn't
safe.

Sorry about your accident, but your misfortune is a statistically rare
event, and should not scare others off. People are killed by lightning,
but one should not stay inside during the entire season when thunderstorms
could occur.

Please Honor The Signature Separator, i.e. "-- ".

Sometimes I tell myself that but:

1. Lightning is random
2. Safe cycling is possible if accomodations are made for cyclists.

Most places, including the place where I live have not made any real
accomodations for cyclists. The reason that cycling accidents are rare is
that there are so few people who cycle. If more people cycled then the
number of incidents would increase and you wouldn't be able to call it
"statistically rare".

Before the accident, I had the experience, as I sure we have all had, of the
abusive driver who tries to run you off the road. Lightning isn't personal.
Car drivers aren't aware of cyclists and some are down right hostile.

No matter how rare these accidents may be, they are preventable. A lightning
strike is not.

The problem is that these "cyclist accommodations" are NOT safer IF they
intersect with roads and driveways used by motor vehicles, which the
accident statistics bear out. Motorists are usually NOT looking for
cyclists when they turn across a parallel bike lane or bike path. Even
worse are where bicycle paths cross roads without a control signal.

It is safer to ride where the motorists can see you in the manner of any
other vehicle.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
"Those who can't do, teach,
those who can’t teach, teach gym" - Anon.

Edward Dolan wrote:
"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...
[...]
Sorry about your accident, but your misfortune is a statistically rare
event, and should not scare others off. People are killed by lightning,
but one should not stay inside during the entire season when thunderstorms
could occur.

I strongly recommend never going out of your house under any circumstances
whatsoever. Not only that, but stay in bed as much as possible and in a
storm get under your bed. You can't be too safe when all the world is trying
to kill you dead. Hells Bells, even your own body is trying to kill you each
and every day!

Statistics are for fools and charlatans. Same goes for so-called facts. It
is always best to consult wise men such as Ed Dolan the Great who knows
everything there is to know worth knowing.

Hi Ed,

Good to see you are still being an old coot on the newsgroup.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
"Those who can't do, teach,
those who can’t teach, teach gym" - Anon.

Jeff Grippe wrote:
"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...
Jeff Grippe top posted:
At the risk of sounding like ED, I would have to say that trikes are not
safe in urban or suburban environments unless you live someplace like
Portland or Seattle that has gone out of the way to make cycling safer.

I make this statement as someone who sustained a spinal cord injury from
having been hit by a car while on a trike while on a designated bike
route. I suppose I'm lucky to still be alive. The whole experience has
changed my thinking about where it is and is not safe to ride. The day
before I was hit I would have said that good riding habits are enough to
keep you safe. But it isn't just the cyclists that have to behave. The
cars have to behave as well. Since they aren't going to, I would have to
say that cycling, in general, on roads that are shared by cars, isn't
safe.

Sorry about your accident, but your misfortune is a statistically rare
event, and should not scare others off. People are killed by lightning,
but one should not stay inside during the entire season when thunderstorms
could occur.

Please Honor The Signature Separator, i.e. "-- ".

Sometimes I tell myself that but:

1. Lightning is random
2. Safe cycling is possible if accomodations are made for cyclists.

Most places, including the place where I live have not made any real
accomodations for cyclists. The reason that cycling accidents are rare is
that there are so few people who cycle. If more people cycled then the
number of incidents would increase and you wouldn't be able to call it
"statistically rare".

Before the accident, I had the experience, as I sure we have all had, of the
abusive driver who tries to run you off the road. Lightning isn't personal.
Car drivers aren't aware of cyclists and some are down right hostile.

No matter how rare these accidents may be, they are preventable. A lightning
strike is not.

The problem is that these "cyclist accommodations" are NOT safer IF they
intersect with roads and driveways used by motor vehicles, which the
accident statistics bear out. Motorists are usually NOT looking for
cyclists when they turn across a parallel bike lane or bike path. Even
worse are where bicycle paths cross roads without a control signal.

It is safer to ride where the motorists can see you in the manner of any
other vehicle.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
"Those who can't do, teach,
those who can’t teach, teach gym" - Anon.

"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...
Jeff Grippe wrote:
[...]
Most places, including the place where I live have not made any real
accomodations for cyclists. The reason that cycling accidents are rare is
that there are so few people who cycle. If more people cycled then the
number of incidents would increase and you wouldn't be able to call it
"statistically rare".

Before the accident, I had the experience, as I sure we have all had, of
the abusive driver who tries to run you off the road. Lightning isn't
personal. Car drivers aren't aware of cyclists and some are down right
hostile.

No matter how rare these accidents may be, they are preventable. A
lightning strike is not.

The problem is that these "cyclist accommodations" are NOT safer IF they
intersect with roads and driveways used by motor vehicles, which the
accident statistics bear out. Motorists are usually NOT looking for
cyclists when they turn across a parallel bike lane or bike path. Even
worse are where bicycle paths cross roads without a control signal.

A cyclist on a bike path has to stop, look and listen before crossing a road
regardless of the kind of intersection. Very many cyclists manage to get
themselves killed because they do not use the brains they were born with.

It is safer to ride where the motorists can see you in the manner of any
other vehicle.

Ah, if only that were true. But Jeff Grippe is right. It only takes one
blind motorist to kill you. The fact is that we are not as safe as we think
we are riding in traffic and sharing the road with motorists. We need our
own bike paths to be safe.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...
Edward Dolan wrote:
"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...
[...]
Sorry about your accident, but your misfortune is a statistically rare
event, and should not scare others off. People are killed by lightning,
but one should not stay inside during the entire season when
thunderstorms could occur.

I strongly recommend never going out of your house under any
circumstances whatsoever. Not only that, but stay in bed as much as
possible and in a storm get under your bed. You can't be too safe when
all the world is trying to kill you dead. Hells Bells, even your own body
is trying to kill you each and every day!

Statistics are for fools and charlatans. Same goes for so-called facts.
It is always best to consult wise men such as Ed Dolan the Great who
knows everything there is to know worth knowing.

Hi Ed,

Good to see you are still being an old coot on the newsgroup.

I am only here to keep an eye on you. A Tom Sherman unrestrained is a
horror I would not wish on any newsgroup, not even ARBR!

Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007

What are the numbers for?

"Those who can't do, teach,
those who can’t teach, teach gym" - Anon.

Only too true! I never in my life had a gym (Phy Ed) teacher who wasn't a
jerk.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...
Jeff Grippe wrote:
The problem is that these "cyclist accommodations" are NOT safer IF they
intersect with roads and driveways used by motor vehicles, which the
accident statistics bear out. Motorists are usually NOT looking for
cyclists when they turn across a parallel bike lane or bike path. Even
worse are where bicycle paths cross roads without a control signal.

It is safer to ride where the motorists can see you in the manner of any
other vehicle.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
"Those who can't do, teach,
those who can't teach, teach gym" - Anon.

Well, I did get hit in a driveway. It wasn't because someone was pulling out
of the driveway but rather in the space where the driveway was the bike lane
disappeared and I was riding with the cars. I got rear ended. 20 more yards
and I would have been back in the bike lane. I was on an Americrusier
Tricruiser which is a very high trike. When I pulled up next to cars I could
look in the window at almost eye level so I wasn't close to the ground. I
had a blinky light and I was wearing reflective ski pants (not that you
could see them from a rear end collision).

If the bike lane had continued through the driveway I would have been safe.
So the accomdation that you say wouldn't have protected me, would have
protected me if it were there.

Jeff

"Edward Dolan" wrote in message
news:0OednefUb5UL0xHUnZ2dnUVZ_szinZ2d@prairiewave. com...

A cyclist on a bike path has to stop, look and listen before crossing a
road regardless of the kind of intersection. Very many cyclists manage to
get themselves killed because they do not use the brains they were born
with.

It is safer to ride where the motorists can see you in the manner of any
other vehicle.

Ah, if only that were true. But Jeff Grippe is right. It only takes one
blind motorist to kill you. The fact is that we are not as safe as we
think we are riding in traffic and sharing the road with motorists. We
need our own bike paths to be safe.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota


You and I are on the same page here Ed.

YOU ARE NOT AS SAFE AS YOU THINK!

The day before, the hour before, I would have told you I was safe. I was
wrong.

I wore the right clothing. I had the right accessories (headlight and blinky
lights). I obeyed traffic laws such as stopping at stop signs and traffic
light. I did everything right. I was not as safe as I thought. You aren't
either unless you live in Seattle or Portland.

Jeff

"Jeff Grippe" wrote in message
m...

"Edward Dolan" wrote in message
news:0OednefUb5UL0xHUnZ2dnUVZ_szinZ2d@prairiewave. com...

A cyclist on a bike path has to stop, look and listen before crossing a
road regardless of the kind of intersection. Very many cyclists manage to
get themselves killed because they do not use the brains they were born
with.

It is safer to ride where the motorists can see you in the manner of any
other vehicle.

Ah, if only that were true. But Jeff Grippe is right. It only takes one
blind motorist to kill you. The fact is that we are not as safe as we
think we are riding in traffic and sharing the road with motorists. We
need our own bike paths to be safe.

You and I are on the same page here Ed.

YOU ARE NOT AS SAFE AS YOU THINK!

The day before, the hour before, I would have told you I was safe. I was
wrong.

I wore the right clothing. I had the right accessories (headlight and
blinky lights). I obeyed traffic laws such as stopping at stop signs and
traffic light. I did everything right. I was not as safe as I thought. You
aren't either unless you live in Seattle or Portland.

Having spent well over a month in Seattle at the VA being treated for
prostate cancer, I can tell you there is nothing safe about riding a bicycle
in Seattle unless you are on the bike trails. I suspect that is also true of
Portland. I have never seen or read of any large metro that has anywhere
near adequate bike trails. Some few cities do have fairly passable bike
trails. Minneapolis for instance is not bad, but the climate is inhuman and
not suited for cycling most of the year.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota