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Shimano 11 speed chain



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 27th 20, 05:02 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_2_]
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Posts: 1,320
Default Shimano 11 speed chain

A guy came over to look at my Madone that I have for sale. He rode it around but said that it was making too much noise for him. After he had left, I put the bike up on the stand and discovered two problems, the front derailleur cable had slipped a little but more importantly, the Shimano 105 chain had either locked up a roller or had stretched the chain a little. 105 chains have been touted as having the best "bang for the buck" which is why I bought it. But you could see it sticking as it rolled over the rear lower idler pulley and throwing a wave down the chain when peddling fast. Lubricating with Park Teflon lubricant didn't make the slightest difference and manipulating the chain didn't reveal any hard spots in the chain. But of course that doesn't show a stuck roller or a stretched chain.

In any case I ordered a KMC chain. In their advertisement they specifically say that their 11 speed chains don't stretch which gives me the idea that it is common to other brands.

This is the only time I've ever seen anything like this. As it rolled over the idler pulley is made a definite CLUNK and you could watch it doing it on the work stand. I put the chain in the ultrasonic cleaner and it is now spotless but I will try and discover it that is still occurring and if it is I will measure the chain though since it only occurred on one link I wouldn't think you could measure anything.

In any case, KMC not only has always been super reliable with me but is pretty cheap. Or you can get a top of the line chain from them that is great.
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  #2  
Old October 27th 20, 06:43 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 5,227
Default Shimano 11 speed chain

On Tuesday, October 27, 2020 at 9:02:19 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
A guy came over to look at my Madone that I have for sale. He rode it around but said that it was making too much noise for him. After he had left, I put the bike up on the stand and discovered two problems, the front derailleur cable had slipped a little but more importantly, the Shimano 105 chain had either locked up a roller or had stretched the chain a little. 105 chains have been touted as having the best "bang for the buck" which is why I bought it. But you could see it sticking as it rolled over the rear lower idler pulley and throwing a wave down the chain when peddling fast. Lubricating with Park Teflon lubricant didn't make the slightest difference and manipulating the chain didn't reveal any hard spots in the chain. But of course that doesn't show a stuck roller or a stretched chain.

In any case I ordered a KMC chain. In their advertisement they specifically say that their 11 speed chains don't stretch which gives me the idea that it is common to other brands.

This is the only time I've ever seen anything like this. As it rolled over the idler pulley is made a definite CLUNK and you could watch it doing it on the work stand. I put the chain in the ultrasonic cleaner and it is now spotless but I will try and discover it that is still occurring and if it is I will measure the chain though since it only occurred on one link I wouldn't think you could measure anything.

In any case, KMC not only has always been super reliable with me but is pretty cheap. Or you can get a top of the line chain from them that is great..


KMC chains elongate over time due to pin an roller wear like every other chain. No chain stretches. They're not rubber bands, and and claiming that KMC chains don't "stretch" is like advertising corn as gluten free. But of course you know that. It sounds like you have a stiff link or your quick-link isn't seated properly. Pretty simple fix. Now that you have removed the chain, you need a new snap link according to the Shimano gods -- or a new pin. So at least one of your potential problems will be solved with reassembly. Another outside possibility is bad tension pulley or even a bad chainring holding on to the lower chord of the chain. That's unlikely, though. You should test ride your bikes before you try to sell them -- and how come you keep buying bikes, throw money at them and then sell them? You have to be taking losses. It's "buy low, sell high" -- not the opposite. The market for a used XL rim-brake Madone has to be tiny.


-- Jay Beattie.

  #3  
Old October 27th 20, 06:55 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_2_]
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Posts: 1,320
Default Shimano 11 speed chain

On Tuesday, October 27, 2020 at 9:02:19 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
A guy came over to look at my Madone that I have for sale. He rode it around but said that it was making too much noise for him. After he had left, I put the bike up on the stand and discovered two problems, the front derailleur cable had slipped a little but more importantly, the Shimano 105 chain had either locked up a roller or had stretched the chain a little. 105 chains have been touted as having the best "bang for the buck" which is why I bought it. But you could see it sticking as it rolled over the rear lower idler pulley and throwing a wave down the chain when peddling fast. Lubricating with Park Teflon lubricant didn't make the slightest difference and manipulating the chain didn't reveal any hard spots in the chain. But of course that doesn't show a stuck roller or a stretched chain.

In any case I ordered a KMC chain. In their advertisement they specifically say that their 11 speed chains don't stretch which gives me the idea that it is common to other brands.

This is the only time I've ever seen anything like this. As it rolled over the idler pulley is made a definite CLUNK and you could watch it doing it on the work stand. I put the chain in the ultrasonic cleaner and it is now spotless but I will try and discover it that is still occurring and if it is I will measure the chain though since it only occurred on one link I wouldn't think you could measure anything.

In any case, KMC not only has always been super reliable with me but is pretty cheap. Or you can get a top of the line chain from them that is great..

Well, after the ultrasonic cleaning, the sticking link disappeared.

But the chain was extremely noisy still so I lubricated it with Rock and Roll which didn't stop the noise so they I measured the chain and it is worn out after only perhaps 500 miles. Hopefully when the KMC arrives tomorrow that will silence the drive train. I will hereafter stay away from Shimano chains. It isn't as if new parts should be so noisy.

Then I have to pull the rear derailleur off of the Look. In the next to largest cog the derailleur idler pulley frame is dragging against the largest cog. It never did that with the other 10 speed rear derailleur so I can always replace it with the original one that went with the set. I replaced it with the original that had a totally different frame on it and the dragging was gone. Looking at a similar 10 speed Chorus on eBay, it has the same sort of large frame on it that gets in the way. Looking at another, it has the cutaway frame. I wonder what this is all about?
  #4  
Old October 27th 20, 07:02 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_2_]
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Posts: 1,320
Default Shimano 11 speed chain

On Tuesday, October 27, 2020 at 10:43:41 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, October 27, 2020 at 9:02:19 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
A guy came over to look at my Madone that I have for sale. He rode it around but said that it was making too much noise for him. After he had left, I put the bike up on the stand and discovered two problems, the front derailleur cable had slipped a little but more importantly, the Shimano 105 chain had either locked up a roller or had stretched the chain a little. 105 chains have been touted as having the best "bang for the buck" which is why I bought it. But you could see it sticking as it rolled over the rear lower idler pulley and throwing a wave down the chain when peddling fast. Lubricating with Park Teflon lubricant didn't make the slightest difference and manipulating the chain didn't reveal any hard spots in the chain. But of course that doesn't show a stuck roller or a stretched chain.

In any case I ordered a KMC chain. In their advertisement they specifically say that their 11 speed chains don't stretch which gives me the idea that it is common to other brands.

This is the only time I've ever seen anything like this. As it rolled over the idler pulley is made a definite CLUNK and you could watch it doing it on the work stand. I put the chain in the ultrasonic cleaner and it is now spotless but I will try and discover it that is still occurring and if it is I will measure the chain though since it only occurred on one link I wouldn't think you could measure anything.

In any case, KMC not only has always been super reliable with me but is pretty cheap. Or you can get a top of the line chain from them that is great.

KMC chains elongate over time due to pin an roller wear like every other chain. No chain stretches. They're not rubber bands, and and claiming that KMC chains don't "stretch" is like advertising corn as gluten free. But of course you know that. It sounds like you have a stiff link or your quick-link isn't seated properly. Pretty simple fix. Now that you have removed the chain, you need a new snap link according to the Shimano gods -- or a new pin. So at least one of your potential problems will be solved with reassembly. Another outside possibility is bad tension pulley or even a bad chainring holding on to the lower chord of the chain. That's unlikely, though. You should test ride your bikes before you try to sell them -- and how come you keep buying bikes, throw money at them and then sell them? You have to be taking losses. It's "buy low, sell high" -- not the opposite. The market for a used XL rim-brake Madone has to be tiny.


Roller wear is always referred to as chain stretch. Let Andrew explain why the rollers get thinner from wear but laying a chain out flat and measuring it with a ruler will show elongation. Since that hop disappeared with the ultrasonic cleaning in heavy degreaser soap, I assume that it had a clod of hardened grease in there. I have KMC chains with a thousand miles on them and showing no appreciable wear. And they cost the same as a 105 chain.
  #5  
Old October 27th 20, 07:47 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 12,410
Default Shimano 11 speed chain

On 10/27/2020 11:02 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
A guy came over to look at my Madone that I have for sale. He rode it around but said that it was making too much noise for him. After he had left, I put the bike up on the stand and discovered two problems, the front derailleur cable had slipped a little but more importantly, the Shimano 105 chain had either locked up a roller or had stretched the chain a little. 105 chains have been touted as having the best "bang for the buck" which is why I bought it. But you could see it sticking as it rolled over the rear lower idler pulley and throwing a wave down the chain when peddling fast. Lubricating with Park Teflon lubricant didn't make the slightest difference and manipulating the chain didn't reveal any hard spots in the chain. But of course that doesn't show a stuck roller or a stretched chain.

In any case I ordered a KMC chain. In their advertisement they specifically say that their 11 speed chains don't stretch which gives me the idea that it is common to other brands.

This is the only time I've ever seen anything like this. As it rolled over the idler pulley is made a definite CLUNK and you could watch it doing it on the work stand. I put the chain in the ultrasonic cleaner and it is now spotless but I will try and discover it that is still occurring and if it is I will measure the chain though since it only occurred on one link I wouldn't think you could measure anything.

In any case, KMC not only has always been super reliable with me but is pretty cheap. Or you can get a top of the line chain from them that is great.


You symptom means there's an improperly set rivet or a
snaplink not completely locked or an actual damaged link.
This is a rider safety issue so backpedal in high gear to
locate the offending link, examine closely and either
correct that problem or replace the chain.

If you have any doubt, replace the chain as a broken link
especially while standing in traffic can mean a serious injury.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #6  
Old October 27th 20, 08:46 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_2_]
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Posts: 1,320
Default Shimano 11 speed chain

On Tuesday, October 27, 2020 at 11:48:13 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/27/2020 11:02 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
A guy came over to look at my Madone that I have for sale. He rode it around but said that it was making too much noise for him. After he had left, I put the bike up on the stand and discovered two problems, the front derailleur cable had slipped a little but more importantly, the Shimano 105 chain had either locked up a roller or had stretched the chain a little. 105 chains have been touted as having the best "bang for the buck" which is why I bought it. But you could see it sticking as it rolled over the rear lower idler pulley and throwing a wave down the chain when peddling fast. Lubricating with Park Teflon lubricant didn't make the slightest difference and manipulating the chain didn't reveal any hard spots in the chain. But of course that doesn't show a stuck roller or a stretched chain.

In any case I ordered a KMC chain. In their advertisement they specifically say that their 11 speed chains don't stretch which gives me the idea that it is common to other brands.

This is the only time I've ever seen anything like this. As it rolled over the idler pulley is made a definite CLUNK and you could watch it doing it on the work stand. I put the chain in the ultrasonic cleaner and it is now spotless but I will try and discover it that is still occurring and if it is I will measure the chain though since it only occurred on one link I wouldn't think you could measure anything.

In any case, KMC not only has always been super reliable with me but is pretty cheap. Or you can get a top of the line chain from them that is great.

You symptom means there's an improperly set rivet or a
snaplink not completely locked or an actual damaged link.
This is a rider safety issue so backpedal in high gear to
locate the offending link, examine closely and either
correct that problem or replace the chain.

If you have any doubt, replace the chain as a broken link
especially while standing in traffic can mean a serious injury.


Inspected, nothing can be seen and the skipping ended with the ultrasonic cleaning. But the chain is worn out with the chain measuring tool so it will be replaced. I don't stand to accelerate away from a stop light or sign so broken chains are usually nothing more than a nasty surprise. What is even worse is a broken pedal axle or in one case the retaining mechanism that holds the pedal on the axle broke shooting my foot out to the side and making me lose my balance and fall directly in front of traffic. Fortunately, I had accelerated away from that sign so rapidly that I was well ahead of the cars and they had plenty of time to stop.
  #7  
Old October 28th 20, 12:21 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_2_]
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Posts: 1,320
Default Shimano 11 speed chain

On Tuesday, October 27, 2020 at 12:46:21 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, October 27, 2020 at 11:48:13 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/27/2020 11:02 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
A guy came over to look at my Madone that I have for sale. He rode it around but said that it was making too much noise for him. After he had left, I put the bike up on the stand and discovered two problems, the front derailleur cable had slipped a little but more importantly, the Shimano 105 chain had either locked up a roller or had stretched the chain a little. 105 chains have been touted as having the best "bang for the buck" which is why I bought it. But you could see it sticking as it rolled over the rear lower idler pulley and throwing a wave down the chain when peddling fast. Lubricating with Park Teflon lubricant didn't make the slightest difference and manipulating the chain didn't reveal any hard spots in the chain. But of course that doesn't show a stuck roller or a stretched chain.

In any case I ordered a KMC chain. In their advertisement they specifically say that their 11 speed chains don't stretch which gives me the idea that it is common to other brands.

This is the only time I've ever seen anything like this. As it rolled over the idler pulley is made a definite CLUNK and you could watch it doing it on the work stand. I put the chain in the ultrasonic cleaner and it is now spotless but I will try and discover it that is still occurring and if it is I will measure the chain though since it only occurred on one link I wouldn't think you could measure anything.

In any case, KMC not only has always been super reliable with me but is pretty cheap. Or you can get a top of the line chain from them that is great.

You symptom means there's an improperly set rivet or a
snaplink not completely locked or an actual damaged link.
This is a rider safety issue so backpedal in high gear to
locate the offending link, examine closely and either
correct that problem or replace the chain.

If you have any doubt, replace the chain as a broken link
especially while standing in traffic can mean a serious injury.

Inspected, nothing can be seen and the skipping ended with the ultrasonic cleaning. But the chain is worn out with the chain measuring tool so it will be replaced. I don't stand to accelerate away from a stop light or sign so broken chains are usually nothing more than a nasty surprise. What is even worse is a broken pedal axle or in one case the retaining mechanism that holds the pedal on the axle broke shooting my foot out to the side and making me lose my balance and fall directly in front of traffic. Fortunately, I had accelerated away from that sign so rapidly that I was well ahead of the cars and they had plenty of time to stop.

As I was noting that there were two 10 speed rear Campy derailleurs on eBay with different configurations of the idler pully frame it struck me that the only difference was that they were put together upside down. Took the second one I had and reversed it and it is fine. This is something that you can't do with DuraAce. It only goes together one way.
  #8  
Old October 28th 20, 12:27 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,320
Default Shimano 11 speed chain

On Tuesday, October 27, 2020 at 10:43:41 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:

The market for a used XL rim-brake Madone has to be tiny.


That is the sort of thing that I expect to come from a midget. But then considering the other things you say perhaps you are a midget.
  #9  
Old October 29th 20, 04:32 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,320
Default Shimano 11 speed chain

On Tuesday, October 27, 2020 at 4:27:21 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, October 27, 2020 at 10:43:41 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:

The market for a used XL rim-brake Madone has to be tiny.

That is the sort of thing that I expect to come from a midget. But then considering the other things you say perhaps you are a midget.


One of the problems I'm having is that even the new 11 speed chain is noisy.. I've sprayed it well with Rock and Roll which usually quiets anything, but it continues. My 10 speed Campy stuff is quiet. I simply cannot find a position on the DuraAce stuff in which the drive train is either quiet or has minimal noise no matter how I adjust the alignment of the front derailleur.. It shifts perfectly but has continuous chain noise except in high gear in the 11. Of course the Campy shifters have micro-adjust on the front derailleur and the DuraAce only has two positions.
 




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