Ooops

Nick L Plate wrote:
On 1 Apr, 02:25, Carl Sundquist wrote:
Nick L Plate wrote:
On 1 Apr, 01:56, Carl Sundquist wrote:
Nick L Plate wrote:
On 31 Mar, 20:56, "Kerry Montgomery" wrote:
"Clive George" wrote in message
et... "Kerry Montgomery" wrote in message
m...
Have seen the photo, where is the video?
I saw it on the BBC site, but if you can't get that I found this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ftEFFv0h24
Clive,
Thanks much - amazing save by Bauge. Can't blame the crash on the tubular,
nor its glue.
Kerry
No but I can blame the UCI for not ensuring a valid machine
examination. What with all their regulations they miss an unglued
tyre.
TJ
You can blame them, but doing so will only serve to make you look
remarkably stupid.
The tyre was not glued. The gluing of tubular tyres is a fundamental
feature of bicycle safety. The checking for glued tyres is essential
for all disciplines. The machine should not have been permitted for
racing because the front tyre was not secured. This created a risk to
personal injury of the rider of the machine and those in competition
with him. The mechanic is at fault, the examiner is at fault, the
rider is at fault the governing body, UCI, is at fault. The stupidity
is with the UCI for not presenting a safe sport. As the world
governing body of the sport, they should have got it right with the
world championships.
TJ
DUMBASS (I have never used that address in caps before),

Show me the rule/regulation where the UCI is to blame.

Do you think that the organiser of a race is immune from performing a
proper machine examination because they are the 'world governing
body'? Are you not familiar with machine examination?

TJ

Last post from me on this.

First, you avoided the challenge.

Second, You obviously don't know or understand the difference between an
organizer and a sanctioning body.

Third, 1.3.001, 1.3.002, 1.3.003

Bye, bye.

On Wed, 1 Apr 2009 16:08:37 -0700 (PDT), Nick L Plate
wrote:


Do you think that the organiser of a race is immune from performing a
proper machine examination because they are the 'world governing
body'?

What do the rules say?

Are you not familiar with machine examination?

He's probably far more familiar with UCI rules than you are.

P. Chisholm wrote:
On Mar 31, 12:48 pm, Carl Sundquist wrote:
Hank Wirtz wrote:
On Mar 31, 11:19 am, Carl Sundquist wrote:
P. Chisholm wrote:
On Mar 30, 6:52 am, "Clive George" wrote:
"Qui si parla Campagnolo" wrote in ...
Still learning how to glue tubies on.
http://www.velonews.com/photo/90001
The video shows the tyre didn't cause the crash
So, it's OK for a tubular to roll on a track bike? No brakes, no heat
buildup, no long decents...?
He didn't say that. What he said was that the tire did not cause the
crash. Sireau was a goner before the tire came off. Watch the video.
But even so, a rolled tire _during_ a crash is a problem - whipping
effect, sudden immobility of the wheel, etc. If you're in a crash,
you'd rather have the wheel be free-spinning and self-contained.
You're still confusing a rolled tire as _contributing_ to a crash with a
tire that rolled _because_ of a crash. Having a free spinning, self
contained wheel would not have changed the outcome of that event whatsoever.

Since we are saying what somebody did or didn't say. I said that still
learning how to glue tubies. I never even mentioned the crash.



Touche'

Point to Mr. Chisholm.

wrote:
Carl Sundquist wrote:

Still learning how to glue tubies on.

http://www.velonews.com/photo/90001

The video shows the tyre didn't cause the crash

So, it's OK for a tubular to roll on a track bike? No brakes,
no heat buildup, no long decents...?

He didn't say that. What he said was that the tire did not cause
the crash. Sireau was a goner before the tire came off. Watch
the video.

Where? I see only still frames at the VeloNews site.

But even so, a rolled tire _during_ a crash is a problem -
whipping effect, sudden immobility of the wheel, etc. If you're
in a crash, you'd rather have the wheel be free-spinning and
self-contained.

You're still confusing a rolled tire as _contributing_ to a crash
with a tire that rolled _because_ of a crash. Having a free
spinning, self contained wheel would not have changed the outcome
of that event whatsoever.

Since we are saying what somebody did or didn't say. I said that
still learning how to glue tubies. I never even mentioned the
crash.

Those who rode tubulars should know that even a side force from a
lift-off and crossed wheel landing will collapse a wheel rather than
peel off the tire if it was glued and inflated reasonably. This guy
did not have the tire well glued so the comment "Still learning how to
glue tubies" is appropriate.

Bauge does a great broadslide and loses no tire while recovering and
not taking a dive. Many other sliding crashes in that series did not
roll tires:

http://www.velonews.com/photo/gallery/89933

Not as much to argumentative as to point out things to consider, but
have you seen a side force collapse an all carbon wheel? Also,
Sireau's front wheel was being pushed into the surface, whereas
Bauge's rear wheel was sliding (broadslide, as you put it). The
forces on the direction of the skids are far different enough are to
make comparison pointless.

I take it you haven't fallen off a bicycle in such circumstances and
don't appreciate the range of angular forces that cause
roll-offs. Bauge's side skid was over the range of angular contact
that occur in a fall, except that he got it back under control. I saw
no video of the tire coming off, but most of these occur from wheel
lift-off and landing off axis. Contrary to common belief, track tires
were glued with hard glue (shellac) to reduce rolling losses rather
than to prevent rolling tires, something that road glue does
excellently.

Jobst Brandt

I don't think you really understand what you wrote.

Also, you did not answer the question, "...have you seen a side force
collapse an all carbon wheel?" I'm not saying it hasn't happened, but
you shouldn't automatically be applying old rules to new applications.

Of course if Sireau had used a wire spoked wheel and it collapsed
instead of rolling a tire, TJ would be pointing his blame finger at
everybody under the sun for not following some imaginary safety regulation.