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#11
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On 2005-04-06, jj wrote:
Preston, also accept my sympathy and empathy for what happened to you. If these people knew what a kind and wonderful person you were they would never think of talking to you like that. We need more great guys like you in the world. Well, I'm not sure I deserve that kind of praise, but I appreciate it nonetheless. Thanks. I think you did the right thing. Get the phone out, get out of this guy's way and be prepared to call it in with the license number. A camera phone that could resolve a license number would be ideal. No need to actually complete the call, though if there is an online 'bad driver' dB it could help if they get other road rage calls. Yeah, no camera phone here. Too bad in this case, I guess. I thought about maybe just getting an ultra-small camera, but what a pain that I'd have to carry that on me at all times for idiots like this. Once you got the cell out, this mere fact caused the guy to realize he was out-smarted and thus was thwarted. Yeah, it was kind of funny. Him staring forward cussing violently at... I guess the rear-view mirror. As far as carrying mace. You only really need to have mace if you think that someone will confront you and this is very unlikely. The chances that you could get it out and spray them are very small. You're vulnerable on the bike and by getting out mace you might risk escalation. However there have been instances where people got out of cars and walked up to cyclists. I agree. You just wonder when good common sense is enough when you see something like this, you know. What worries me about these kinds of guys is that if you provoke them then the next guy that has to confront them on a bike might have a much harder time with them. Who knows you might have been a victim of such an event where he had a minor encounter with a biker and the guy flipped him off and rode away before he could say something. I agree. And, like I said before, when someone has wronged me in traffic I'll be the first to admit I've done the 1 finger salute when I didn't have the time to explain what they did wrong. However, I've been trying to get better at not doing that, knowing that what you say above is true. But don't let it get to you, man. Come on rbm and tell your buds and we'll give you hugs and props and then blow it off. Keep riding. Oh, I won't stop riding. I've been threatened. Called a "homo" (I don't even wear any lycra). Had someone ride my bike wheel and rev the engine to try to threaten to run me down because I wasn't on the sidewalk. I've seen it all. And I keep riding. It just gets old sometimes. In fact you helped me today with your post to appreciate how nice (in comparison) everybody is in my town... ;-) What town? I live in Bicycle City, supposedly (Portland, Oregon Metro Area). You wouldn't know it, though. Preston |
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#12
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On 2005-04-06, David L. Johnson wrote:
On Tue, 05 Apr 2005 21:48:31 -0700, frkrygow wrote: Preston Crawford wrote: ... But at a certain point when not only are you being threatened by their vehicles, but they're threatening to wield weapons, what do you do? I'm at a loss. First, what you did was fine. It worked, and the guy is probably frustrated in knowing that the law is on your side. He may even learn from the experience. At this point, let it go. Don't fret about it. Don't accept the negative energy. It happens to us all, and I know very well that it is sometimes hard to let it go. I can list a half-dozen instances that _still_ gall me. But I will not even relate them, since that only makes it worse. Same here and same on the it only makes it worse. I have a virtual catalogue in my head. It's a shame. After several instances within a week at one intersection, I altered my commute route to avoid it. No problems since. Some roads tend to generate this crap. Am I being cowardly by avoiding the confrontations? Should we seek out, or seek to avoid, situations that lead to confrontation? For me, the two routes are more-or-less equivalent. The I would definitely avoid it. Problem is this is literally the only road tht goes from my apartment complex to the main arterial. So I don't have a choice. Heck, I might see this guy tomorrow. BTW, just taking pictures is not enough. All you see is pictures of a red-faced fool giving you the finger. Hardly a death threat there. You need full-motion video with sound to get their ass in jail. Until your phone has that, you flat-out will not win in court, and we all know it. That's probably true, unfortunately. I wish it were enough. Isn't threatening assault illegal? Preston |
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#14
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On 2005-04-06, Neil Brooks wrote:
Preston Crawford wrote: [story of flagrant automotive bullying snipped] Of course, I shout back that I'm going to call the police and he'll go to jail for assault, I pull my cell phone out and start to dial, he starts cussing loudly to himself in the car staring forward. Preston, I'm sorry you had this experience. Many of us have. If you started the dialing process on your phone, that (IMHO) is the best and only thing you should have done. Cyclists taking on cars is a high risk, low reward proposition. If you have a camera in that phone of yours, take a pic of him, his car, and his license plate if you can, then go to the Police station with all of that. Here's one received on the ListServ for San Diego County Bicycle Coalition: "On Tuesday, 3/22 around 3pm, I was biking along Nobel, past Lebon, toward Genessee, when a passenger from a passing car leaned halfway out the window and bashed me over the head with a baseball bat, then sped away. I did not crash. The license plate started with "3P" and I think the 3rd character was "W." I could not get the make or model of the car, but it was a color about pink. I have reported the incident to the police." Be careful out there. Interesting. Wonder if Portland has anything of the sort. Preston |
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Ack - sorry this happened to you. I've had similar happen to me too. Just goes to show that put an amoeba-brain behind the wheel of a car and he/she remains an amoeba-brain. My husband was deliberately knocked off his bike by a motorist coming on to the wrong side of the road (for him), aiming at my husband and hitting him. It was awful. Thankfully my husband had only minor injuries. But the bottom line is the arseholes who deliberately act thus are in a minority, and you can't live your life in a "what if it happens again" state where you become too frightened to get back on the bike and cycle legally and legitimately - or the thugs have won. Don't let them do this to you. Give yourself time to get over the shock of what has happened - be gentle on yourself. Cheers, helen s |
#16
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"Preston Crawford" wrote in message ... And the driver was probably driving one of those huge SUV's and was probably the only person in it! Ken |
#17
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On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 02:41:50 -0500, Preston Crawford
wrote: On 2005-04-06, Leo Lichtman wrote: "jj" wrote: (clip) In that event the first thing you want to do if you can't immediately escape and ride off down a side street is get off the bike. (clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ However, keep in mind that if he starts to get out of the car, you may be able to position yourself to ride off. That's going to leave him looking pretty stupid. This is one circumstance where I believe everyone will agree that riding on the sidewalk or against traffic would be justified. I've replayed this over and over again and I thought of the above scenario. And the first thought that popped into my head was that I'd head for his car, pull the keys and call the cops. Don't know why. Maybe I just haven't gotten over it yet. Preston No, no, no...you do -not- want to do something pre-emptive like that. Trust me. Think about it. Do you really want your life intertwined with this a-hole? It then becomes a 'he said, she said' incident and you risk further escalation. It started as anonymous, keep it that way, de-escalate, calm him down, but first get the hell out of there, ride off. Of course if the guy hits you or runs you off the road then there's reason to get a license number and report it. You are already a winner by avoiding the confrontation. You ride off and he can't touch you - you win, baybee. Believe me I understand the desire to put these guys in their place, but it never works. You absolutely did the right thing. (I say this as a big guy who has trained in three martial arts, and can squat 300lbs for reps and could crush most people like a twig, btw. g) jj |
#18
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On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 01:25:30 -0400, "David L. Johnson"
wrote: On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 00:01:32 -0400, jj wrote: In that event the first thing you want to do if you can't immediately escape and ride off down a side street is get off the bike. (Sitting on the bike makes you a sitting duck for getting punched with one foot clipped in.) Put the bike between you and them This advise works better for dogs than for rednecks. But then, the dogs are less belligerent, and smarter. Right, but I was speaking from experience, and only if you are trapped and can't get out of there...if it escalates from there you are in a great position off the bike with it between you to defend. Straddling on the bike holding the handlebars is the worst place to be when people come up to you, iow. If you suddenly get stuck like that still on the bike and there's an imminent confrontation quickly unclip and then you can post both feet on the ground and raise up the front wheel and ward them off if necessary. What I'm getting at is it's easy to be taken unawares and people can be up upon you before you realize it. Also beware of people coming up behind you while someone in front of you distracts you. 360degree as it were. Again, speaking from experience. jj |
#19
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On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 01:22:56 -0400, "David L. Johnson"
wrote: On Tue, 05 Apr 2005 21:48:31 -0700, frkrygow wrote: Preston Crawford wrote: ... But at a certain point when not only are you being threatened by their vehicles, but they're threatening to wield weapons, what do you do? I'm at a loss. First, what you did was fine. It worked, and the guy is probably frustrated in knowing that the law is on your side. He may even learn from the experience. At this point, let it go. Don't fret about it. Don't accept the negative energy. It happens to us all, and I know very well that it is sometimes hard to let it go. I can list a half-dozen instances that _still_ gall me. But I will not even relate them, since that only makes it worse. It's a matter of self-talk. Realize this is totally anonymous - these guys don't know you and if they met you out of the car at a party they'd probably like you. People get behind the wheel they turn into a-holes. It happens to you, to me, to saintly little old ladies, to priests, everybody. After several instances within a week at one intersection, I altered my commute route to avoid it. No problems since. Some roads tend to generate this crap. Am I being cowardly by avoiding the confrontations?* Not at all. This is a hot topic on many of the self-defense board and those are often populated by guys who are frequently armed, stone dead killers with several blackbelts and years of fighting experience in the ring. They -all- say de-escalate, defuse and escape. It's not an easy path and sometimes we have to go through a bad event to realize this. You escape and ride away-you win. You avoid-you win. You turn the sitch around and make a friend- you win big! The alternative is you enter the legal system, you get sued, you get hurt, this guy escalates, you get shot, yada, yada and yeah, all the time you are in the right. It makes no difference. You get involved with this crap and you lose, essentially. It's a hard lesson to learn and it basically involves retraining your psyche with self-talk. Should we seek out, or seek to avoid, situations that lead to confrontation? For me, the two routes are more-or-less equivalent. The new route involves a left turn onto an artery without benefit of a light (avoiding that was the reason to take the road-rage route), but since traffic is usually backed up at this point, it's not a problem usually. Perfect solution. Props. BTW, just taking pictures is not enough. All you see is pictures of a red-faced fool giving you the finger. Hardly a death threat there. You need full-motion video with sound to get their ass in jail. Until your phone has that, you flat-out will not win in court, and we all know it. Not to be didactic but the purpose of the camera/phone is just as an icon. If possible get a snap of the license number, but in general 99.999% of the time - escape, blow it off, come to rbm and de-stress if necessary with your buds. The cops are less then interested in some guy reporting a road rage incident involving words and more often than not they end up focussing on -you-. Heck even if the guy ran you off the road it's yawnable to most cops. They weren't there they can't prove anything. Even if the cop sees it happen they're unlikely to intervene if it's just words. Having said that where there are bad driver report boards, by all means register these guys and post license numbers. The cops will intervene if they can establish a history I believe. (I hope). jj |
#20
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On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 02:49:30 -0500, Preston Crawford
wrote: That's probably true, unfortunately. I wish it were enough. Isn't threatening assault illegal? Preston Yes, it's a class I misdemeanor, iirc. However it's frequently not proveable. If you were riding with a bud and he heard this then it would be actionable and the cops would most likely go and talk to the guy if you could get a positive ID. Again, going this route can get your life intertwined with some anonymous a-hole. If it's a guy you are going to see again day after day it might be worth the trouble to try and make a friend. Believe me it's possible. I made "friends" with some guy who had set up a trap on the road to try and kill me. Yeah he's still an a-hole, but now he waves at me. g And, now it's not a seminal incident in my life but something that I chuckle at because I outwitted him. All you have to do is go up to him and become an individual - 'hi, sorry if I upset you - let's talk - be friends'. It's very disarming. It's all about your mental health, not creating a bad event to ruminate about. That's why you talk to your buds and come to realize you won, bro. jj |
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