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Riding up Oliver's Hill to be barred



 
 
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  #21  
Old March 15th 07, 07:41 AM posted to aus.bicycle
SteveA[_5_]
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Default Riding up Oliver's Hill to be barred


byron27 Wrote:
they have a race every year on the freeway from Belmont up to Joondalup
in Perth (about 40 clicks i guess) which is awesome. 3 lanes of traffic
all to yourself.

biggest danger is hitting the reflective lane markers at 50+!



And it's on this Sunday. 30km race at 7:15am. Then 30km charity ride
with 4 starting groups at 15 minute intervals from 7:30am. Then family
10km ride starting at 9:30am.

I'm riding the short course as I want to ride with the family and the
11 year old is not allowed by race rules in ride the longer route.
(Have to be 12 or older to ride the 30km).

SteveA


--
SteveA

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  #22  
Old March 15th 07, 10:40 AM posted to aus.bicycle
rdk[_3_]
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Default Riding up Oliver's Hill to be barred


Aren't bikes banned from Brunton Ave? I think ther'e a sign there,
anyway.


--
rdk

  #23  
Old March 15th 07, 11:11 AM posted to aus.bicycle
SomeGuy[_21_]
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Default Riding up Oliver's Hill to be barred


AndrewJ Wrote:
Of course it is possible to prohibit vehicles. In this case, it is much
safer to ride up Hopes Rise... I always ride up this way, and would not
even think of taking the alternative.


I use Hopes Rise most times I go that way, but when I've done the hell
ride we went up the main road. Forcing 200 cyclists onto a narrow strip
of road which is also used by pedestrians is absolutely nuts. Given the
sheer size of the hell ride I don't think those riding in it are in
real danger of not being seen, it seems to me to be more of a matter
of Frankston police having a go at cyclists. The way they have gone
about stopping cyclists using the main road supports this theory too.


--
SomeGuy

  #24  
Old March 15th 07, 01:21 PM posted to aus.bicycle
rooman[_49_]
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Default Riding up Oliver's Hill to be barred


Bleve Wrote:
On Mar 15, 3:08 pm, Zebee Johnstone wrote:
In aus.bicycle on 14 Mar 2007 20:38:11 -0700

Bleve wrote:

Interesting to see if it's actually legal to force riders off a

normal
road. If there's a police direction, that's one thing, but a
permanent rule? Is it legal on normal roadways to prohibit a class

of
vehicle?


Most freeways in most states prohibit animals and animal-drawn

vehicles.
Some prohibit bicycles on part or all.

Some roads have weight limits, some have size limits. Don't see why
they can't be about underweight as well as overweight


I thought freeways were a different (special) case though? My
understanding was that a normal gazetted road was open to all
'vehicles' (which, AFAIK, includes bicycles). Thus the question.
And, Andrew, I've ridden up Olivers Hill and felt as safe as I feel on
most busy roads. Your paranoia does not mean the road is any more or
less safe than any other road.




Zebee

we've covered this before....and discussed the for's and against on
sending bunches up Hopes Rise...

I guess some local constable plod has a nose out of joint or has a
buddy who has influence...

large groups of 30 ( yes legal number is 30, then a permit etc etc) are
safer on the main roadway, Hopes Rise is very dangerous above 15klm per
hour and when numbers are large...

Hope's Rise is fine for small groups and individuals and I recommend it
for that purpose...am not enamoured about any form of compulsory signage
directing all bicycle traffic ( and it is traffic) up Hopes Rise at all
times...

The Black Rock ride doesnt cause any issues at the time of day it rides
Ollies, obvious to me this is some way of getting to it without
expressly saying so...will be interesting therefore to see the reaction
of the non organisers especially the old salts from StKilda CC...., they
dont have to use Ollies anyway to go up towards Mt Eliza, there is Karr
Street, and any other number of ways through Frankston to get to Mt
Eliza...

I would suggest a better solution to the climb up Ollies for all
traffic is to limit the speed limit to below 60kph and warning though
traffic and traffic on the limit to use the right hand lane...bikes are
not the only vehicles that use Ollies below 40klmph, many trucks,
graders, tractors and slow cars find the climb onerous and slow....will
they be going up Hopes rise too?


--
rooman

  #25  
Old March 15th 07, 03:08 PM posted to aus.bicycle
Peter Signorini
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Default Riding up Oliver's Hill to be barred


"Bleve" wrote:

I thought freeways were a different (special) case though? My
understanding was that a normal gazetted road was open to all
'vehicles' (which, AFAIK, includes bicycles).


Correct by my understanding (I'll have to double check the road rules)

Is there a sign that says specifically "No bikes" or "Bicyclists
prohibited"? Because that would be needed to stand up under the law. And
even then I believe it would only apply to a freeway as they have special
rules. A public road is just that - a road for the public to use, using
whatever legally recognized vehicle they are travelling in/on.

This joke of an issue reminds me of the main road into Korumburra. Check it
out in your Vicroads directory. A normal main road that is marked in green:
4 kms of 'freeway' coming into Korumburra from Melbourne. Most country
freeways you can now ride on, and this one is (I think) no exception. But
back in the early 80s freeway riding was banned for bikes. That made 4 kms
of ordinary two-lane highway an illegal ride by the letter of the law

--
Cheers
Peter

~~~ ~ _@
~~ ~ _- \,
~~ (*)/ (*)





  #26  
Old March 18th 07, 08:08 AM posted to aus.bicycle
AndrewJ
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Posts: 81
Default Riding up Oliver's Hill to be barred

On Mar 16, 1:08 am, "Peter Signorini"
wrote:
"Bleve" wrote:

I thought freeways were a different (special) case though? My
understanding was that a normal gazetted road was open to all
'vehicles' (which, AFAIK, includes bicycles).


Correct by my understanding (I'll have to double check the road rules)

Is there a sign that says specifically "No bikes" or "Bicyclists
prohibited"? Because that would be needed to stand up under the law. And
even then I believe it would only apply to a freeway as they have special
rules. A public road is just that - a road for the public to use, using
whatever legally recognized vehicle they are travelling in/on.

This joke of an issue reminds me of the main road into Korumburra. Check it
out in your Vicroads directory. A normal main road that is marked in green:
4 kms of 'freeway' coming into Korumburra from Melbourne. Most country
freeways you can now ride on, and this one is (I think) no exception. But
back in the early 80s freeway riding was banned for bikes. That made 4 kms
of ordinary two-lane highway an illegal ride by the letter of the law

--
Cheers
Peter

~~~ ~ _@
~~ ~ _- \,
~~ (*)/ (*)

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I think the right way to manage this for the "Hell Ride" is to
designate it an official event
that is held every week at the same time. Then put traffic conditions
on all of the
roads, including Frankston that apply at that time that make it safe
for the race and the
cars to be present.

So, for example, 7am - 9am, on section X, there is a lane (obviously
the leftmost lane) where cars have to give preference to bicycle
groups in progress. This needs designated signage. As the ride
progresses south, the
conditions move with the ride.

Given that the car traffic is very light at this time, this should not
impede car traffic. But it
does require the riders to use only a single lane. This work at
Olivers Hill, in that cars would veer
right and use the right lane up the hill.

I still don't think you can mix a group race with normal car traffic
without some conditions.
This avoids banning cars completely from the road (unlikely to be
achieved), and requires some
discipline from the racers. Nobody is ever going to support the group
running red lights.

[You can see I've given it some thought, and decided the Hell Ride is
more important than
the car traffic at that time of day. ]




  #27  
Old March 18th 07, 12:16 PM posted to aus.bicycle
ProfTournesol[_4_]
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Posts: 1
Default Riding up Oliver's Hill to be barred


Bleve Wrote:
On Mar 15, 1:36 pm, EuanB EuanB.2ng...@no-
mx.forums.cyclingforums.com wrote:
Frankston Leader






http://www.frankstonleader.com.au/article/2007/03/12/11384_fsv_news.html
]

RIDING UP OLIVERS HILL TO BE BARRED


12Mar07


SOUTH-BOUND CYCLISTS WILL ALMOST CERTAINLY BE BARRED FROM RIDING

OVER
OLIVERS HILL, FRANKSTON, VIA THE NEPEAN HIGHWAY.
A sign that advises cyclists to cross via Hopes Rise, beside the
Nepean Highway, will be changed to compel their use of the detour.
Sgt Bruce Buchan, of Frankston traffic police, said last
Thursday that Hopes Rise was safer for cyclists and VicRoads

planned to
enforce the change.
Olivers Hill is crossed by hundreds of sporting cyclists in each
Saturday morning's ``hell ride'' from inner-Melbourne bayside

suburbs
to Mt Eliza.
Some hell riders avoid Hopes Rise, which has a number of speed
humps, but Frankston police have been directing them to the detour.
A Queensland rider who broke from a south-bound pack of cyclists
on Saturday, March 3, to climb the hill via the highway faces a

$140
infringement notice or a court summons for having defied a

policeman's
lawful direction.


On the face of it not a bad idea in this particular case. What are

the
ramifications for other roads where the advisory signs directing
cyclists off the main highway through more dangerous routes? There's
one particular case on Princes Highway that springs to mind.


Interesting to see if it's actually legal to force riders off a normal
road. If there's a police direction, that's one thing, but a
permanent rule? Is it legal on normal roadways to prohibit a class of
vehicle?
[/color]
it's certainly common practice to limit oversize vehicles, eg trucks
are restricted (apparently) on Beach Road. There are height
restrictions in the CityLink tunnels.


--
ProfTournesol



  #28  
Old March 18th 07, 09:16 PM posted to aus.bicycle
MikeyOz[_2_]
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Posts: 1
Default Riding up Oliver's Hill to be barred


AndrewJ Wrote:

I think the right way to manage this for the "Hell Ride" is to
designate it an official event
that is held every week at the same time. Then put traffic conditions
on all of the
roads, including Frankston that apply at that time that make it safe
for the race and the
cars to be present.

So, for example, 7am - 9am, on section X, there is a lane (obviously
the leftmost lane) where cars have to give preference to bicycle
groups in progress. This needs designated signage. As the ride
progresses south, the
conditions move with the ride.

Given that the car traffic is very light at this time, this should not
impede car traffic. But it
does require the riders to use only a single lane. This work at
Olivers Hill, in that cars would veer
right and use the right lane up the hill.

I still don't think you can mix a group race with normal car traffic
without some conditions.
This avoids banning cars completely from the road (unlikely to be
achieved), and requires some
discipline from the racers. Nobody is ever going to support the group
running red lights.

[You can see I've given it some thought, and decided the Hell Ride is
more important than
the car traffic at that time of day. ]


whatever it is you are smoking you should stop it before it affects you
even more.


--
MikeyOz

  #29  
Old March 18th 07, 10:36 PM posted to aus.bicycle
DaveB
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Posts: 435
Default Riding up Oliver's Hill to be barred

AndrewJ wrote:
I think the right way to manage this for the "Hell Ride" is to
designate it an official event
that is held every week at the same time. Then put traffic conditions
on all of the
roads, including Frankston that apply at that time that make it safe
for the race and the
cars to be present.


So there will be entry fees for this training ride I assume in order to
cover road closures and the insurance that would be required to run an
official event on the roads? And of course everyone would be happy to
pay for that even though you can do the same ride for free. Bit more
thought required.

DaveB
  #30  
Old March 18th 07, 11:10 PM posted to aus.bicycle
byron27[_24_]
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Posts: 1
Default Riding up Oliver's Hill to be barred


DaveB Wrote:
AndrewJ wrote:
I think the right way to manage this for the "Hell Ride" is to
designate it an official event
that is held every week at the same time. Then put traffic conditions
on all of the
roads, including Frankston that apply at that time that make it safe
for the race and the
cars to be present.


So there will be entry fees for this training ride I assume in order to
cover road closures and the insurance that would be required to run an
official event on the roads? And of course everyone would be happy to
pay for that even though you can do the same ride for free. Bit more
thought required.

DaveB

In all the time i have spent in the Hell Ride group they have stayed
in one lane all at once for maybe 2-3 minutes.

I feel that one of the main issues, that has been mentioned previously,
is respect for the road rules by all members of the group. In the (rare)
instances i have been on public group rides like this in Perth (Papa's
public holiday rides) where there are over 80-90 riders, the group
stays within one lane and slows coming into lights in case in turns.

The Hell Ride seems to be full of PBR's (professional bunch riders) who
rarely, if ever race, and get all their competitive urges out in a
public group ride. This leads to excessive chopping, pushing through
non existent gaps and treating the road as their closed race course.
This is the only group ride i have ever done where i fear for my safety
to the degree where i refuse to do it anymore.

How to change the attitude of the ride? i have no idea. i know when
people start racing a lot they treat group rides as training and know
when the real racing is.


--
byron27



 




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