Rethinking getting Surly Long Haul Trucker frame?

On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 10:20:12 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

I believe you have just gone all around Robin Hood's barn to prove that the bumble bee can't fly. A very great number of bicycles have stands and they apparently work pretty well. I've got a couple myself and so far then have never failed. Whether a loaded front basket like my "city bike" or a pannier on the rack like other bikes, they work just like they are intended to

From your description I doubt that you have ever seen a tripod...
Like a surveyor uses, or a photographer, they don't have big wide
tires or a big wide "foot", and they seem to hold up some fairly
expensive gear.

-- Cheers, John B. -- Cheers, John B.


A tripod? I assume you are thinking the two bike tires and the kickstand make a tripod.
Three points touching the ground. Hmmmm? I've seen tripods for photography and telescopes. They have three equal length legs. All spaced at 120 degrees. A bike has two legs, the tires, spaced at 180 degrees. And the third leg, kickstand, spaced at 90 degrees between the tires. Not equal weight distribution. And the kickstand does not stand the bike up straight. The bike leans over a number of degrees. Sometimes it leans way over. Its not straight up and down like with cameras and telescopes. So calling the bicycle kickstand as part of a tripod, is foolish. I would never consider the bicycle kickstand to be part of a tripod system.



Well it has three contact points arranged in a triangle; looks like a
tripod; functions like a tripod.... What would you call it?


Despie what some people claim, I am not a fan of kickstands to support a weighted bicycle.
Not the single leg kickstand that comes out behind the crankset and causes the bike to lean over.

Different strokes for different folks I guess. Mine works - works on
three different bikes at the moment. Yours doesn't.

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sunday, January 27, 2013 6:46:08 AM UTC-5, J. B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 11:38:20 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski

wrote:



On Jan 25, 2:01�pm, "

wrote:





I don't recall kickstands working too well. �The bike tends to tip over. �I make sure I lean the bike against a solid wall so it cannot tip over. �Or just lay it on the ground so it can't fallover.. �Much better to be sure than take the risk of a bike falling over with a kickstand. �And for touring with loaded panniers? �Kickstands definitely do not work for that. �Might as well get of your bike and intentionally throw it on the ground as hard as you can. �Same effect as using a kickstand.



I agree about typical kickstands. There may be designs that works

well, but not the usual ones.



Blackburn used to sell a little stepped plastic block that one could

jam into a front brake lever to lock that brake. I use a variation on

that design on every bike I own, and have done so since long before

Blackburn started selling them. It makes the bike much more stable

when leaned against a wall, etc. - much more stable than a typical

kickstand.



- Frank Krygowski



A rubber band "parking brake" :-)



--

Cheers,



John B.

Or an old or new toe-strap. Or a short strap with velcro fastening at the ends.

Cheers

the single stalk kickstand is vestigal think from pre ten speed.

On Jan 27, 6:46*am, J.B.Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 11:38:20 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski









wrote:
On Jan 25, 2:01 pm, "
wrote:

I don't recall kickstands working too well. The bike tends to tip over.. I make sure I lean the bike against a solid wall so it cannot tip over. Or just lay it on the ground so it can't fallover. Much better to be sure than take the risk of a bike falling over with a kickstand. And for touring with loaded panniers? Kickstands definitely do not work for that. Might as well get of your bike and intentionally throw it on the ground as hard as you can. Same effect as using a kickstand.

I agree about typical kickstands. *There may be designs that works
well, but not the usual ones.

Blackburn used to sell a little stepped plastic block that one could
jam into a front brake lever to lock that brake. *I use a variation on
that design on every bike I own, and have done so since long before
Blackburn started selling them. *It makes the bike much more stable
when leaned against a wall, etc. - much more stable than a typical
kickstand.

- Frank Krygowski

A rubber band "parking brake" :-)

In the early 1970s, the "bike boom" in the U.S., most ten speeds had
centerpull brakes. Some had little cam action quick release levers at
the head tube cable stop, to loosen the brakes for wheel removal.

My best biking friend was visiting bike shops in Atlanta, GA looking
for his first "good" bike. He was obviously more knowledgeable than
the employees of one bike shop, who had set up that QR so the brakes
operated normally when it was in it's "loose" position. They were
convinced the mechanism was a parking brake.

That was enough for my friend (a fellow plant engineer) to choose
another shop. But it wouldn't be a bad idea to have three positions
on that style of QR; one for normal braking, one looser to remove the
wheel, and one tighter to lock the wheel.

- Frank Krygowski

On 1/27/2013 7:35 AM, Phil W Lee wrote:
Sir Ridesalot considered Sun, 27 Jan 2013
03:56:22 -0800 (PST) the perfect time to write:

On Sunday, January 27, 2013 6:46:08 AM UTC-5, J. B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 11:38:20 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski

wrote:



On Jan 25, 2:01�pm, "

wrote:





I don't recall kickstands working too well. �The bike tends to tip over. �I make sure I lean the bike against a solid wall so it cannot tip over. �Or just lay it on the ground so it can't fallover. �Much better to be sure than take the risk of a bike falling over with a kickstand. �And for touring with loaded
panniers? �Kickstands definitely do not work for that. �Might as well get of your bike and intentionally throw it on the ground as hard as you can. �Same effect as using a kickstand.



I agree about typical kickstands. There may be designs that works

well, but not the usual ones.



Blackburn used to sell a little stepped plastic block that one could

jam into a front brake lever to lock that brake. I use a variation on

that design on every bike I own, and have done so since long before

Blackburn started selling them. It makes the bike much more stable

when leaned against a wall, etc. - much more stable than a typical

kickstand.



- Frank Krygowski



A rubber band "parking brake" :-)



--

Cheers,



John B.

Or an old or new toe-strap. Or a short strap with velcro fastening at the ends.

Cheers

My front brake lever has a button that you press to keep it engaged.


Those are made for tricycles which otherwise can roll away
unattended.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 1/27/2013 7:35 AM, Phil W Lee wrote:

Or an old or new toe-strap. Or a short strap with velcro fastening at the ends.


What is a toe strap?

Cheers

My front brake lever has a button that you press to keep it engaged.

My front brake levers (no rear brake) on the Rotovelo have these.

--
Tom $herman

On Jan 27, 2:31*pm, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/27/2013 7:35 AM, Phil W Lee wrote:



My front brake lever has a button that you press to keep it engaged.

Those are made for tricycles which otherwise can roll away
unattended.

Ah! So a bicycle's tendency to fall over if nudged isn't a bug. It's
a feature!

- Frank Krygowski

On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 20:00:43 -0800, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On Jan 27, 2:31Â*pm, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/27/2013 7:35 AM, Phil W Lee wrote:



My front brake lever has a button that you press to keep it engaged.

Those are made for tricycles which otherwise can roll away unattended.

Ah! So a bicycle's tendency to fall over if nudged isn't a bug. It's a
feature!

Well if we couldn't lean them over cornering would be a bit interesting.
This would tend to give me the impression that this instability was a
feature.
--
davethedave

On Sunday, January 27, 2013 8:35:33 AM UTC-5, Phil W Lee wrote:
Sir Ridesalot considered Sun, 27 Jan 2013

03:56:22 -0800 (PST) the perfect time to write:



On Sunday, January 27, 2013 6:46:08 AM UTC-5, J. B. Slocomb wrote:

On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 11:38:20 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski



wrote:







On Jan 25, 2:01�pm, "



wrote:











I don't recall kickstands working too well. �The bike tends to tip over. �I make sure I lean the bike against a solid wall so it cannot tip over. �Or just lay it on the ground so it can't fallover. �Much better to be sure than take the risk of a bike falling over with a kickstand. �And for touring with loaded

panniers? �Kickstands definitely do not work for that. �Might as well get of your bike and intentionally throw it on the ground as hard as you can. �Same effect as using a kickstand.







I agree about typical kickstands. There may be designs that works



well, but not the usual ones.







Blackburn used to sell a little stepped plastic block that one could



jam into a front brake lever to lock that brake. I use a variation on



that design on every bike I own, and have done so since long before



Blackburn started selling them. It makes the bike much more stable



when leaned against a wall, etc. - much more stable than a typical



kickstand.







- Frank Krygowski







A rubber band "parking brake" :-)







--



Cheers,







John B.



Or an old or new toe-strap. Or a short strap with velcro fastening at the ends.



Cheers



My front brake lever has a button that you press to keep it engaged.



button ? comes with a suicide knob ? whom's responsoble for this atrocity ?

On 1/28/2013 6:30 PM, datakoll wrote:
On Sunday, January 27, 2013 8:35:33 AM UTC-5, Phil W Lee wrote:
Sir Ridesalot considered Sun, 27 Jan 2013

03:56:22 -0800 (PST) the perfect time to write:



On Sunday, January 27, 2013 6:46:08 AM UTC-5, J. B. Slocomb wrote:

On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 11:38:20 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski



wrote:







On Jan 25, 2:01�pm, "



wrote:











I don't recall kickstands working too well. �The bike tends to tip over. �I make sure I lean the bike against a solid wall so it cannot tip over. �Or just lay it on the ground so it can't fallover. �Much better to be sure than take the risk of a bike falling over with a kickstand. �And for touring with loaded

panniers? �Kickstands definitely do not work for that. �Might as well get of your bike and intentionally throw it on the ground as hard as you can. �Same effect as using a kickstand.







I agree about typical kickstands. There may be designs that works



well, but not the usual ones.







Blackburn used to sell a little stepped plastic block that one could



jam into a front brake lever to lock that brake. I use a variation on



that design on every bike I own, and have done so since long before



Blackburn started selling them. It makes the bike much more stable



when leaned against a wall, etc. - much more stable than a typical



kickstand.







- Frank Krygowski







A rubber band "parking brake" :-)







--



Cheers,







John B.



Or an old or new toe-strap. Or a short strap with velcro fastening at the ends.



Cheers



My front brake lever has a button that you press to keep it engaged.



button ? comes with a suicide knob ? whom's responsoble for this atrocity ?

Pulling the brake lever releases the parking brake.

--
Tom $herman