Should Cyclists Pack Guns?

On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 09:07:54 -0500, Curtis L. Russell
wrote:

On Thu, 19 Apr 2007 21:02:04 -0400,
wrote:

Gee, would this relate to the statistics that "black men are
more at risk of being shot than any other group" ? To which the media
always fail to add the reality ".... shot by other black men,
typically over 'turf', drugs, gangs, and money".

You need to read better newspapers. The fact that the violence is
black on black is regularly reported - in fact, it is in the interest
of cities that want tourist dollars to make that as clear as possible.

Very often, the race of the shooter is never mentioned in the
news if he's black. Sometimes it is, but very often not. But if it's
a white guy that shot a black - you KNOW what the headline is going to
be ! "WHITE GUY SHOOTS BLACK GUY !!!!", even if race had nothing to
do with it. But if it's a black-on-black, or black-on-white shooting,
they often just say 'street crime'.


And it is also brought up regularly by black leaders, from Bill Cosby
to Jesse Jackson to black mayors of major cities.

Like the ex-mayor of DC, Marion Barry, who, after going to
prison for being caught on video tape smoking crack in a hotel room
with a prostitute, was then elected to the City Council, where he is
of course 'anti gun'. Great leaders they pick. People can talk all
they want about Republican corruption, and lord knows there's enough
of it to talk about and then some ( and DumbocRat corruption, too -
one of Darth Nancy's Demo Speaker predecessors went to prsion, too ),
but geez, Louise ! When the guy is on video tape, played nightly on
every TV and cable station ..... they RE-ELECT him when he gets out of
prison ?????

Let's face it, there's a very different culture at work there.
One that accepts things like whoring, crack-smoking, 15 year old
unmarried mothers, vanishing fathers, family and friends in prison or
dead, nightly gunfire in the neighborhood, etc, all as 'normal'. One
that also leads to them periodically burning down their own
neighborhoods in some kind of misguided protest against people who
live in OTHER neighborhoods. Real bright !



No one is hiding
this issue.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

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"Wayne Pein" wrote in message
...
M. MacDonald wrote:

think that's what he meant by "more eventful(less)."

He did say the motorcyclists bother them (i.e ranchers and farmers) less
since they all go by in 15 minutes and it doesn't require them to stay
off the road all day so the bicyclists can ride 3-4 abreast all over the
roadway like they normally do around here.

They don't like riding in their "exclusive lanes" because of stickers, so
they ride in the car track areas of the main roadway.

No wonder some get run over.

Mack




In response to a previous post of yours, bicyclists don't pay registration
fees or need licenses because they do little damage to other people, the
roads, or the environment. And quit complaining. If you don't like paying,
just ride a bicycle. It's free for anyone.

Many bicyclists don't want "exclusive lanes." We're usually OK with
generously sharing a part of OUR standard lane with faster motorists. Yes,
the vehicle operator in front, including bicycle drivers, can claim it's
their lane.

Bicycle lanes reduce bicyclists' space, get filled with debris, and are
first a benefit to motorists for easier passing, and secondly a benefit to
some bicyclists who are fearful of overtaking traffic.

I don't have difficulty dealing with bicyclists when I drive my car or
motorcycle. But apparently inept drivers do. Are you inept?

Wayne


Yup. I don't know how to pedal.


--


By it's very nature, my sig. makes this posting 100% on topic.

"Of course, you'll have the good taste not to mention that I posted this."

Thumper

"I don't want a pickle..."
http://www.thumpers-roadhouse.ws

2007 H-D FXSTD Deuce
2006 Buell Ulysees
2006 BMW K1200GT
2004 H-D Road King Classic
1978 Triumph T140V Bonneville
1975 Triumph T160 Trident
1974 Norton Commando Interstate
1969 BSA R75 Red Rocket III
1962 Triumph T20 Tiger Cub
1958 BSA Super Bantam COCK
1954 Velocette MAC

wrote in message
oups.com...
On Apr 19, 10:15 pm, "B. Peg" wrote:
"Wayne Pein" wrote:
.... bicyclists don't pay registration fees or need licenses because
they
do little damage to other people, the roads, or the environment.

Oh really?

So how come you don't pay for your special little piece of tarmac?

Actually, I do. I pay taxes and fees for my cars and motorcycle, plus
other taxes that end up used for construction and maintenance of
roads. When I ride my bicycle, I'm on roads I helped pay for.

And I'm causing far less damage and expense than I do when I'm using
my other vehicles.

Should it be free at the exclusion of vehicular traffic?

In my state, bikes _are_ vehicular traffic. They're defined that way
in state law. But no, I don't care to exclude motor vehicle traffic
(assuming that's what you mean). I'm competent at sharing the road,
and most drivers are. Some yahoos in cars are not, but you can't
prevent a bell curve from having a bottom tail.

Why should vehicular
taxes pay for your free asphalt that impedes their travel?

'Taint free. I help pay for it. And if my presence impedes your
travel, it's likely because you're not as competent at driving as one
would hope. But again, there's that bell curve...


Many bicyclists don't want "exclusive lanes." We're usually OK with
generously sharing a part of OUR standard lane with faster motorists.

So you have no problem riding in the middle of the road with traffic?

I certainly don't. Like Wayne, I'm no fan of bike lanes.

So we don't need bicycle lanes then.

Many, many cyclists are of that opinion.

Give them back to those who did pay for them and could use them.

You're misinformed about the issue of paying for them, but I'm willing
to give them up.

I hope by "generously sharing" you weren't
referring to bicyclists who ride side-by-side and take up the entire
rural
byways.

In actual fact, that is generally legal. Read the state laws, or the
Uniform Vehicle Code. Most states specifically permit two-abreast
riding. And it is sometimes necessary for a cyclist to take a lane,
for reasons many motorists don't comprehend.

One difficulty cyclists have is that there are too many people who
think they know all about how it should be done, but who actually are
- well, the bottom of yet another bell curve. Cyclists you think of
as rude may simply be careful, and reacting to situations you're not
even dimly aware of.

Of course, it _is_ possible some cyclists are just rude. But
motorists are hardly innocent of that!

Sorry, but you seem more inept at understanding your selfish demands on
road
usage and encroach into the lanes of those who do pay for their use. As
it
is, you pay nothing for something that costs a lot to maintain and build.

Sorry, but you seem to be inept at understanding the relevant laws,
and the reasons cyclist sometimes must be in your precious way, as
well as the economics of road and traffic expense.

I agree that the debris problem comes from their lack of usage - which
could
be put to better use for traffic flow and parking. If you want it clean,
why
not pay for it? It shouldn't be paid out of the pockets of those who
don't
or cannot use a bicycle.

If you're talking about debris in bike lanes, I don't want to clean
them, because I don't want bike lanes at all, at least in any
situation I've encountered. Take that issue up with a bike lane fan.

I wouldn't have a problem with bicycles paying a license fee in states
where
they wish to have exclusive lanes or paved trails. Might even serve to
help
locate lost or stolen bikes as well. Would you be opposed to paying a
$100
year for a license/sticker like dirt bikers who don't use the tarmac?

Hell yes. It would be like paying a $100 fee for a walking license.

Cyclists cause zero road damage. They require zero police enforcement
expense. They don't generate the need for expensive infrastructure
like freeways, heavy-duty bridges, or even traffic lights. They
generate zero pollution, zero health problems. They cause nearly zero
injuries to any other road user.

If you accurately figured the true costs of your motoring, you'd
probably find you're paying a tiny fraction of it. Non-drivers are
subsidizing you.

- Frank Krygowski

You guys are rude, inconsiderate and a danger to motorists.

Thumper

On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 11:06:32 -0500, Curtis L. Russell
wrote:

On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 10:35:59 -0400,
wrote:

Let's face it, there's a very different culture at work there.
One that accepts things like whoring, crack-smoking, 15 year old
unmarried mothers, vanishing fathers, family and friends in prison or
dead, nightly gunfire in the neighborhood, etc, all as 'normal'. One
that also leads to them periodically burning down their own
neighborhoods in some kind of misguided protest against people who
live in OTHER neighborhoods. Real bright !

I congratulate you on being able to respond so quickly and only
occasionally letting your code words slip. The problems are real, but
so is being a racist.

You are a racist.

I am a REALIST. That's different. My statement above it true
fact, and you know it. Speaking the truth is not being 'xxx-ist'.

If you can't admit that ghetto 'culture', which is mainly
black and latino 'culture', is decidely different than non-ghetto
culture ( which is both black and white, a little bit of latino, a
good bit of Asian ), you are blind or a fool.


Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

--
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"Qui si parla Campagnolo" wrote in message ://webspawner.com/users/bikeforpeace
snip
I think there are way to many guns, way to easy to get them BUT they
are there and are not going to go away but a clearly insane person
like Cho should not have been able to buy a gun..THAT needs to be
fixed somehow.


I got a handgun permit.
Took an application asking for EVERY job and residence I've ever had.
And references, all of which they called.
Took six months for it to be approved.
Then I had to go to the main police station to get interviewed and
fingerprinted.

Now I've got a permit that allows me to buy a handgun.
That entails going to the gun shop, buying the handgun,
bringing the receipt back out to the main station to be examined
and the serial number recorded, returning to the shop with a signed
approval, taking possession of the gun, and bringing it back to the
station so they can examine the gun and make sure the numbers match.
Then I can bring it home.

One wonders why some states make it easier to buy a gun than
get a driver's license.

JP

On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 10:35:59 -0400,
wrote:

Let's face it, there's a very different culture at work there.
One that accepts things like whoring, crack-smoking, 15 year old
unmarried mothers, vanishing fathers, family and friends in prison or
dead, nightly gunfire in the neighborhood, etc, all as 'normal'. One
that also leads to them periodically burning down their own
neighborhoods in some kind of misguided protest against people who
live in OTHER neighborhoods. Real bright !

I congratulate you on being able to respond so quickly and only
occasionally letting your code words slip. The problems are real, but
so is being a racist.

You are a racist.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

B. Peg wrote:

"Wayne Pein" wrote:
.... bicyclists don't pay registration fees or need licenses because they
do little damage to other people, the roads, or the environment.


Oh really?

So how come you don't pay for your special little piece of tarmac? Should
it be free at the exclusion of vehicular traffic? Why should vehicular
taxes pay for your free asphalt that impedes their travel?

You're a hoot. Bicyclists DO pay for their tarmac. It's called taxes.
And most bicyclists are also motorists. Quit your whining.



Many bicyclists don't want "exclusive lanes." We're usually OK with
generously sharing a part of OUR standard lane with faster motorists.


So you have no problem riding in the middle of the road with traffic? So
we don't need bicycle lanes then. Give them back to those who did pay for
them and could use them. I hope by "generously sharing" you weren't
referring to bicyclists who ride side-by-side and take up the entire rural
byways.


Sometimes we generously share, sometimes we don't. Get used to it. I
don't have to give you a piece of my birthday cake if I don't want to.

If you can't deal with slow traffic on rural byways, learn how to drive
better. I don't have a problem, why do you? Do you also have a problem
with slow moving farm tractors?


Bicycle lanes reduce bicyclists' space, get filled with debris, and are
first a benefit to motorists for easier passing, and secondly a benefit to
some bicyclists who are fearful of overtaking traffic.

I don't have difficulty dealing with bicyclists when I drive my car or
motorcycle. But apparently inept drivers do. Are you inept?


Sorry, but you seem more inept at understanding your selfish demands on road
usage and encroach into the lanes of those who do pay for their use. As it
is, you pay nothing for something that costs a lot to maintain and build.

The fact that gas taxes in part pay for roads doesn't mean that non gas
users can't use them. If you don't like paying gas tax, ride a bike.
Decision makers have decided that is free. Quit whining. Or whine to
decision makers, but don't whine at bicyclists for using what we are
entitled to.



I agree that the debris problem comes from their lack of usage - which could
be put to better use for traffic flow and parking. If you want it clean, why
not pay for it? It shouldn't be paid out of the pockets of those who don't
or cannot use a bicycle.

I don't want it clean. I don't want it at all.

I wouldn't have a problem with bicycles paying a license fee in states where
they wish to have exclusive lanes or paved trails. Might even serve to help
locate lost or stolen bikes as well. Would you be opposed to paying a $100
year for a license/sticker like dirt bikers who don't use the tarmac?

I don't want exclusive space, so no, I won't pay. If decision makers
make me pay, I'll agree to pay 1/100 of what motorists pay since that is
about what a bike weighs. Factor in the fact that bikes don't use gas
(that's a good thing) and one could justify even less fee.


Wayne

On 20 Apr 2007 05:38:46 -0700, Qui si parla Campagnolo
wrote:

On Apr 19, 9:34 am, donquijote1954
wrote:
Hey, we get screamed at, doored at, spitted upon, pushed around and
even killed, isn't it time we enjoy the same benefits as other
Americans? When is a cyclist going into a rage and mow down all those
careless SUV drivers who make us feel worthless?

Imagine this scenario: You get hit and as you roll down the pavement
you draw and...

I guess we cyclists are too pacific for that (or just that we aren't
Republicans), but in light of all that violence out there, shouldn't
we rethink our strategy (everyone to himself) and get together to
launch a good nonviolent campaign?

Here's a good identifying T-shirt...http://www.cafepress.com/burncalories

Still Bush defends the right to bear arms

EVEN as President George Bush told the nation he was praying for the
victims, and that the killings in a place of learning would affect
"every American classroom and community", a White House official said
Mr Bush continued to believe in the "right to bear arms".

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2007/...html?from=top5

WELCOME TO THE JUNGLEhttp://webspawner.com/users/donquijote

BIKE FOR PEACEhttp://webspawner.com/users/bikeforpeace

I think there are way to many guns, way to easy to get them BUT they
are there and are not going to go away but a clearly insane person
like Cho should not have been able to buy a gun..THAT needs to be
fixed somehow.

It would be nice.

Then again, the largest mass murder in US history occured in
1990 ( I may have the year wrong ) when an unemployed Cuban in NYC
torched a nightclub called, funny enough, HappyLand, killing 87
people. His weapon was a gallon of gas and a match. In 1986, an
arson in a hotel in SAn Jaun killed 97.

How do we stop deadly things from falling into the wrong hands ?
Often we can't.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_t...e_sponsored.29


Murder (criminal rather than terrorism or state sponsored)
See also List of serial killers by country and Spree killer

50,000 - Thugee cult, India ~1700 - 1890
931 - Behram, Thugee cult leader, India, (1790 - 1830)
~650 - Erzsébet Báthory, Kingdom of Hungary, (c.1585 - 1610) - total
disputed
500 - Circus arson, (Niterói, Brazil, 1961)
400 - Abadan theater arson (Abadan, Iran, 1978)
300+ - Pedro Lopez, Colombia, Peru, Ecuador, (1969 - 1980) - total
disputed
~250 - Dr. Harold Shipman, Hyde, United Kingdom, (1970s?-1998)
198 - Daugu Subway Fire (Daegu, South Korea, 2003)
163+ - Dr John Bodkin Adams, Eastbourne, United Kingdom, (1946-1956).
Acquitted controversially but pathologist Francis Camps suspected him
of killing 163 patients.[6]
140 - Luis Garavito, Colombia, (1992-1998)
100 - Donald Henry "Pee Wee" Gaskins, serial killer from Johnsonville,
South Carolina who prior to his execution, claimed over 100 killed
97 - Dupont Plaza Hotel arson, San Juan, Puerto Rico, 1986)
87 - Happyland Fire, New York City, (1990)
80+ - Bruno Ludke, Germany, (1928 - 1943) there is some evidence that
Ludke may have been framed by the Nazis
65 - Yang Xinhai, China (PRC), (1999 - 2004)
63 - Arson at a Macedonian disco in Gothenburg, Sweden (1998)
58+ - Giuseppe Greco, Mafiosi from Sicily (1977 - 1985)
57 - Woo Bum-Kon, South Korea (1982)
53 - Andrei Chikatilo, Ukraine, (1982 - 1990)
52 - Anatoly Onopriyenko, Ukraine, (1996)
48+ - Gary Ridgway, Green River Killer, Washington, USA (1980s)
45 - Bath School Disaster, Bath, Michigan, USA (1927)
38 - Moses Sithole, South Africa, (1994 - 1995)
35 - Port Arthur Massacre, Australia (1996)
33 - Virginia Tech Massacre, (2007)
33 - John Wayne Gacy, Chicago, (1970s)
29-40 - Charles Cullen, New Jersey and Pennsylvania, USA (1988 - 2003)
27–63 Marcel Petiot, France, (1926 - 1944)
27+ - Cedric Maake, South Africa, (1996 -1997)
27 - Dean Corll, Houston, Texas, USA (1970 - 1973)
27 - Maria Swanenburg Leiden, Netherlands, (1880-1883)
24+ - Fritz Haarmann, Hanover, Germany (1919-1924)
24 - Bela Kiss, Cinkota, Hungary (1912 - 1916)
23 - Albert Guay, Quebec, (1949)
23 - Ted Bundy, Florida, (1970s)
--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

Thumper wrote:




You guys are rude, inconsiderate and a danger to motorists.

Thumper

Better watch out Thumper. Spike Bike is gonna get you.

Wayne

"Wayne Pein" wrote in message
...
Thumper wrote:




You guys are rude, inconsiderate and a danger to motorists.

Thumper

Better watch out Thumper. Spike Bike is gonna get you.

Why for telling the truth? Don't ask what happened to the last Mass...what ever
those morons call themselves that tried one of their little trick when I when by
at the legal limit. Insurance is a good thing to have a vehicle why don't you
have it on that push bike?