For Carl Fogel to decipher

On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 15:01:22 -0800 (PST), Chalo
wrote:

Carl Fogel wrote:

A few early safeties, like this 1887 Victor, came with spade handles:

http://www.auctionflex.com/auctionim..._2BX0UT5PJ.jpg

Note the t-fitting on the end of the spoon brake to allow the rider to
work the brake from the spade handle.

It seems like these bikes all have the same color paint.

Chalo

Dear Chalo,

Blue, with red pinstripes:

http://www.eriding.net/media/photos/...ans_vb_542.jpg

http://www.eriding.net/media/photos/...ans_vb_537.jpg

Brown, with white pinstripes:

http://www.eriding.net/media/photos/...ans_vb_517.jpg

http://www.eriding.net/media/photos/...ans_vb_520.jpg

Hard to say:

http://www.auctionflex.com/auctionim..._21D1FF1FV.jpg

Tan:

http://www.auctionflex.com/auctionim..._2BX0UT5PJ.jpg

High-speed color, regrettably ordinary handlebar:

http://www.eriding.net/media/photos/...ans_vb_531.jpg

I forgot this one with mallet handles and a semi-disk front wheel,
which I've seen up close in the owner's home:
http://www.goldenoldy.org/Greeley06US.jpg
http://www.goldenoldy.org/Greeley05US.jpg

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

The Pedersen bicycle frame was patented in 1893 by Danish engineer
Mikael Pedersen. There is the same kind of innovative spirit as in the
other bicycles of the time you showed in your images.

The frame construction is all triangles, and a pylon (a rod between the
back of the seat and rear axle.)

Here is the basic idea of frame construction:

http://www.pedersenbicycle.dk/

Seat is a belt construction. Here you can see the series of srings under
the seat

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...hrrad_2004.jpg

Here is the short history of the bike

http://www.pedersenbicycle.dk/

And this is a longer lectu

http://www.dursley-pedersen.net/

Here is my bike:

http://picasaweb.google.com/heikkika...rameModel2001#


--
Heikki Kastemaa
kulttuurinavigaattori
Helsinki, Finland

puh./tel 050 356 3827
hkastemaa miumau welho.com
http://kulttuurinavigaattori.blogspot.com/

On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 21:48:06 +0200, Heikki Kastemaa
wrote:

The Pedersen bicycle frame was patented in 1893 by Danish engineer
Mikael Pedersen. There is the same kind of innovative spirit as in the
other bicycles of the time you showed in your images.

The frame construction is all triangles, and a pylon (a rod between the
back of the seat and rear axle.)

Here is the basic idea of frame construction:

http://www.pedersenbicycle.dk/

Seat is a belt construction. Here you can see the series of srings under
the seat

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...hrrad_2004.jpg

Here is the short history of the bike

http://www.pedersenbicycle.dk/

And this is a longer lectu

http://www.dursley-pedersen.net/

Here is my bike:

http://picasaweb.google.com/heikkika...rameModel2001#

Dear Heikki,

A few posts in which Pedersens have been mentioned:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.b...gel+peders en

I confess that I find the weird pear-shaped hub of the early Pedersens
more interesting than the frame, which Pedersen originally designed to
accomodate the slung seat.

The idea of a non-round hub is, as far as I know, unique to Pedersen.
It didn't work worth a damn, but I love oddball stuff like that.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

wrote:
I confess that I find the weird pear-shaped hub of the early Pedersens
more interesting than the frame, which Pedersen originally designed to
accomodate the slung seat.

The idea of a non-round hub is, as far as I know, unique to Pedersen.
It didn't work worth a damn, but I love oddball stuff like that.

I scanned through some links about Pedersons, but I didn't see the non-round
hub. Can you take a moment to send me a link? I'm curious about how that worked
(or didn't work, as you say).

Have you seen the Pantour suspension hub? I guess you'd call it round, but the
axle doesn't always go through the axis of that cylinder. Link:

http://www.pantourhub.com/products.html

--
Dave
dvt at psu dot edu

On Sat, 22 Nov 2008 10:31:23 -0500, Dave wrote:

wrote:
I confess that I find the weird pear-shaped hub of the early Pedersens
more interesting than the frame, which Pedersen originally designed to
accomodate the slung seat.

The idea of a non-round hub is, as far as I know, unique to Pedersen.
It didn't work worth a damn, but I love oddball stuff like that.

I scanned through some links about Pedersons, but I didn't see the non-round
hub. Can you take a moment to send me a link? I'm curious about how that worked
(or didn't work, as you say).

Have you seen the Pantour suspension hub? I guess you'd call it round, but the
axle doesn't always go through the axis of that cylinder. Link:

http://www.pantourhub.com/products.html

Dear Dave,

You'd think that Pedersen enthusiasts would be sinfully proud of the
early pear-shaped hubs, but the hubs are hard to find:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.b...1981de40a48bab

As for the Pantour suspension hub, they've come up a few times:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.b...t=0&scoring=d&

But it's the non-roundness of the early Pedersen hub gear that would
give SpokeCalc nightmares.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

wrote:
You'd think that Pedersen enthusiasts would be sinfully proud of the
early pear-shaped hubs, but the hubs are hard to find:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.b...1981de40a48bab

As for the Pantour suspension hub, they've come up a few times:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.b...t=0&scoring=d&

But it's the non-roundness of the early Pedersen hub gear that would
give SpokeCalc nightmares.

Thanks for the photo links. From the picture and the diagram, I see that the
spoke flange is not round. It looks like the spoke holes are drilled in a round
pattern, but there's a big gap on one side! I'm sure there's not a matching gap
in the rim drilling, so I don't think there would be more than two of any length
spoke in the wheel. You're right... it looks like a wheelbuilder's nightmare.

--
Dave
dvt at psu dot edu

On Sat, 22 Nov 2008 20:06:58 -0500, Dave wrote:

wrote:
You'd think that Pedersen enthusiasts would be sinfully proud of the
early pear-shaped hubs, but the hubs are hard to find:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.b...1981de40a48bab

As for the Pantour suspension hub, they've come up a few times:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.b...t=0&scoring=d&

But it's the non-roundness of the early Pedersen hub gear that would
give SpokeCalc nightmares.

Thanks for the photo links. From the picture and the diagram, I see that the
spoke flange is not round. It looks like the spoke holes are drilled in a round
pattern, but there's a big gap on one side! I'm sure there's not a matching gap
in the rim drilling, so I don't think there would be more than two of any length
spoke in the wheel. You're right... it looks like a wheelbuilder's nightmare.

Dear Dave,

Yes, the early Pedersen hub is a good example of how eccentrics can't
help pushing things too far.

First, Pedersen designed that whole oddball frame in order to
accomodate his idea of slinging a better seat (or at least he said
so).

People can put up with oddball frames.

But then Pedersen made the poor hub pear-shaped to accomodate the
gears instead of just adding big round flanges. The spoke nightmare
caused by the asymmetrical hub was too much for dealers to put up
with.

I still want to see a spokecalc program for pear-shaped hubs.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel