Getting a new bike should is fun?

On Nov 20, 4:21 am, "Bill Sornson" wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
Andre Jute
Not slack, busy choosing a new bike

COMPLETELY OFF-TOPIC IN THIS NEWSGROUP!!!

I apologize abjectly for talking about bicycles.

(Whaddya gettin'?)

Frustrated. I'm six weeks into the process and no forrarder.

It isn't even like I'm undecided and window shopping. I know precisely
what I want: a very simple, unbreakable, infinitely servicable bike
with refined comfort. So I'm speccing lugged steel, lowish (trapeze or
mixte) standover, long wheelbase, Rohloff hub, Big Apple 60-622,
dynohub, disc brakes, no suspension. (I'm even thinking of keeping to
cable-operated discs in order to keep everything simple.)

Doesn't sound like much to ask for, does it? So I thought. I was in
for a disappointment. Only two firms actually build a bike like that
and dealing with their dealers is a nightmare of unanswered letters
and rude shop assistants wittering on in German about long delivery
lists. Actually, when I got to see the bike from one of those firms, I
crossed it off my list (after six weeks or so, all I have to show for
my time is lists, mostly of what doesn't work, or doesn't work
together). Their bike isn't simple at all, too many little
crossbracing pipes for my liking. (I actually have a better -- fully
triangulated -- small-pipe design than theirs on my drawing board, but
I filed it because of the uncertainties of finding a builder.)

Okay, so can you buy a frame off the shelf? The hell you can. There is
only one steel frame actually available off the shelf for 700Cx2.35in
BIg Apples and that is the Surly Karate Monkey, and, while brilliant
by its own lights, for me such a short chassis bike is simply crude
and rough.

Then I decided to give up most of what I wanted and just buy a
Cannondale, which at least is beautifully presented and can be fitted
up with the Karate Monkey fork if the Headshok is too much trouble,
and a guy who has the same frame wrote to me saying it looks like 50mm
tyres might fit, and 42mm certainly will because he's done it. The
dealers advertising it couldn't deliver; Cannondale had sold out.

Okay. So back to where I started. Can I get a custom frame made?
Should be easy, I thought. But most of the guys on a list Clive
referred me to, and other lists I already had, are no longer in
business, and the ones who are good enough to have survived are full
up and/or very casual about new customers, usually both. Sample: A
week after writing to him, I called one guy and asked him if he's
interested. Oh, yes, he said, he's reading my spec and he'll get back
to me with a quote by the end of another week. I'm still waiting.

Now I'm talking to another firm, a longtime survivor of excellent
reputation They're happy for me to talk directly to the guy who'll be
brazing my bike, so at least the time I invested in the spec got me a
hearing with a guy who can make it happen.

But I'm so cynical from my experiences these last couple of months, I
have a fallback position, in which I have traced a lugged steel frame
available off the shelf with which I have to give up only two of my
desires (drop back from 60mm to 50mm tyres, and give up either the low
standover or the disc brakes, because the dedicated Rohloff lugged
frame is not available in the trapeze, only a generic long horizontal
slot with which you cannot use disc brakes). However, even here, after
two letters querying whether the 50mm BA will fit with space left for
a suitable mudguard, I have different answers from different people
and will have to ask again.

At least one of my lists is a sourced outfitting schedule, which is
already something saved from this frustrating waste of time.

BS (bike stuff)

Bike stuff and bull****, in my present mood, are not much different.
I'm about a hairbreadth from saying thehellwithit and building the
bike I want out of wood, which is a wonderful material.

Andre Jute
Frustrated

Like root canal. When it is over, you know it was the right thing to
do.

Andre Jute wrote:

On Nov 20, 4:21 am, "Bill Sornson" wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
Andre Jute
Not slack, busy choosing a new bike

COMPLETELY OFF-TOPIC IN THIS NEWSGROUP!!!

I apologize abjectly for talking about bicycles.

(Whaddya gettin'?)

Frustrated. I'm six weeks into the process and no forrarder.

It isn't even like I'm undecided and window shopping. I know precisely
what I want: a very simple, unbreakable, infinitely servicable bike
with refined comfort. So I'm speccing lugged steel, lowish (trapeze or
mixte) standover, long wheelbase, Rohloff hub, Big Apple 60-622,
dynohub, disc brakes, no suspension. (I'm even thinking of keeping to
cable-operated discs in order to keep everything simple.)

Doesn't sound like much to ask for, does it? So I thought. I was in
for a disappointment. Only two firms actually build a bike like that
and dealing with their dealers is a nightmare of unanswered letters
and rude shop assistants wittering on in German about long delivery
lists. Actually, when I got to see the bike from one of those firms, I
crossed it off my list (after six weeks or so, all I have to show for
my time is lists, mostly of what doesn't work, or doesn't work
together). Their bike isn't simple at all, too many little
crossbracing pipes for my liking. (I actually have a better -- fully
triangulated -- small-pipe design than theirs on my drawing board, but
I filed it because of the uncertainties of finding a builder.)

Okay, so can you buy a frame off the shelf? The hell you can. There is
only one steel frame actually available off the shelf for 700Cx2.35in
BIg Apples and that is the Surly Karate Monkey, and, while brilliant
by its own lights, for me such a short chassis bike is simply crude
and rough.

Then I decided to give up most of what I wanted and just buy a
Cannondale, which at least is beautifully presented and can be fitted
up with the Karate Monkey fork if the Headshok is too much trouble,
and a guy who has the same frame wrote to me saying it looks like 50mm
tyres might fit, and 42mm certainly will because he's done it. The
dealers advertising it couldn't deliver; Cannondale had sold out.

Okay. So back to where I started. Can I get a custom frame made?
Should be easy, I thought. But most of the guys on a list Clive
referred me to, and other lists I already had, are no longer in
business, and the ones who are good enough to have survived are full
up and/or very casual about new customers, usually both. Sample: A
week after writing to him, I called one guy and asked him if he's
interested. Oh, yes, he said, he's reading my spec and he'll get back
to me with a quote by the end of another week. I'm still waiting.

Now I'm talking to another firm, a longtime survivor of excellent
reputation They're happy for me to talk directly to the guy who'll be
brazing my bike, so at least the time I invested in the spec got me a
hearing with a guy who can make it happen.

But I'm so cynical from my experiences these last couple of months, I
have a fallback position, in which I have traced a lugged steel frame
available off the shelf with which I have to give up only two of my
desires (drop back from 60mm to 50mm tyres, and give up either the low
standover or the disc brakes, because the dedicated Rohloff lugged
frame is not available in the trapeze, only a generic long horizontal
slot with which you cannot use disc brakes). However, even here, after
two letters querying whether the 50mm BA will fit with space left for
a suitable mudguard, I have different answers from different people
and will have to ask again.

At least one of my lists is a sourced outfitting schedule, which is
already something saved from this frustrating waste of time.

BS (bike stuff)

Bike stuff and bull****, in my present mood, are not much different.
I'm about a hairbreadth from saying thehellwithit and building the
bike I want out of wood, which is a wonderful material.

Andre Jute
Frustrated

"Andre Jute" wrote...

[...]
Not slack, busy choosing a new bike
[...]
Frustrated. I'm six weeks into the process and no forrarder.
[...]
Andre Jute
Frustrated

Although I agree with the fact that you shouldn't look for bikes
too far away from home, I must say that I finally got my
very classical Roberts steel touring bike and I'm delighted with
it and quite happy with the whole buying experience.

I'll write a bit more about it as soon as I can (and in the hope
it's not too OT...). Here's the bike:
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/2282/img5643cu2.jpg
(I hope this link works!)

bye
Gennaro

On Nov 20, 2:21*am, Andre Jute wrote:
On Nov 20, 4:21 am, "Bill Sornson" wrote:

Andre Jute wrote:
Andre Jute
Not slack, busy choosing a new bike

COMPLETELY OFF-TOPIC IN THIS NEWSGROUP!!!

I apologize abjectly for talking about bicycles.

(Whaddya gettin'?)

Frustrated. I'm six weeks into the process and no forrarder.

It isn't even like I'm undecided and window shopping. I know precisely
what I want: a very simple, unbreakable, infinitely servicable bike
with refined comfort. So I'm speccing lugged steel, lowish (trapeze or
mixte) standover, long wheelbase, Rohloff hub, Big Apple 60-622,
dynohub, disc brakes, no suspension. (I'm even thinking of keeping to
cable-operated discs in order to keep everything simple.)

Doesn't sound like much to ask for, does it? So I thought. I was in
for a disappointment. Only two firms actually build a bike like that
and dealing with their dealers is a nightmare of unanswered letters
and rude shop assistants wittering on in German about long delivery
lists. Actually, when I got to see the bike from one of those firms, I
crossed it off my list (after six weeks or so, all I have to show for
my time is lists, mostly of what doesn't work, or doesn't work
together). Their bike isn't simple at all, too many little
crossbracing pipes for my liking. (I actually have a better -- fully
triangulated -- small-pipe design than theirs on my drawing board, but
I filed it because of the uncertainties of finding a builder.)

Okay, so can you buy a frame off the shelf? The hell you can. There is
only one steel frame actually available off the shelf for 700Cx2.35in
BIg Apples and that is the Surly Karate Monkey, and, while brilliant
by its own lights, for me such a short chassis bike is simply crude
and rough.

Then I decided to give up most of what I wanted and just buy a
Cannondale, which at least is beautifully presented *and can be fitted
up with the Karate Monkey fork if the Headshok is too much trouble,
and a guy who has the same frame wrote to me saying it looks like 50mm
tyres might fit, and 42mm certainly will because he's done it. The
dealers advertising it couldn't deliver; Cannondale had sold out.

Okay. So back to where I started. Can I get a custom frame made?

Waterfordbikes.com

Richard could do it.

Should be easy, I thought. But most of the guys on a list Clive
referred me to, and other lists I already had, are no longer in
business, and the ones who are good enough to have survived are full
up and/or very casual about new customers, usually both. Sample: A
week after writing to him, I called one guy and asked him if he's
interested. Oh, yes, he said, he's reading my spec and he'll get back
to me with a quote by the end of another week. I'm still waiting.

Now I'm talking to another firm, a longtime survivor of excellent
reputation They're happy for me to talk directly to the guy who'll be
brazing my bike, so at least the time I invested in the spec got me a
hearing with a guy who can make it happen.

But I'm so cynical from my experiences these last couple of months, I
have a fallback position, in which I have traced a lugged steel frame
available off the shelf with which I have to give up only two of my
desires (drop back from 60mm to 50mm tyres, and give up either the low
standover or the disc brakes, because the dedicated Rohloff lugged
frame is not available in the trapeze, only a generic long horizontal
slot with which you cannot use disc brakes). However, even here, after
two letters querying whether the 50mm BA will fit with space left for
a suitable mudguard, I have different answers from different people
and will have to ask again.

At least one of my lists is a sourced outfitting schedule, which is
already something saved from this frustrating waste of time.

BS (bike stuff)

Bike stuff and bull****, in my present mood, are not much different.
I'm about a hairbreadth from saying thehellwithit and building the
bike I want out of wood, which is a wonderful material.

Andre Jute
Frustrated

Andre Jute schreef:
On Nov 20, 4:21 am, "Bill Sornson" wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
Andre Jute
Not slack, busy choosing a new bike
COMPLETELY OFF-TOPIC IN THIS NEWSGROUP!!!

I apologize abjectly for talking about bicycles.

(Whaddya gettin'?)

Frustrated. I'm six weeks into the process and no forrarder.

It isn't even like I'm undecided and window shopping. I know precisely
what I want: a very simple, unbreakable, infinitely servicable bike
with refined comfort. So I'm speccing lugged steel, lowish (trapeze or
mixte) standover, long wheelbase, Rohloff hub, Big Apple 60-622,
dynohub, disc brakes, no suspension. (I'm even thinking of keeping to
cable-operated discs in order to keep everything simple.)

Doesn't sound like much to ask for, does it? So I thought. I was in
for a disappointment. Only two firms actually build a bike like that
and dealing with their dealers is a nightmare of unanswered letters
and rude shop assistants wittering on in German about long delivery
lists. Actually, when I got to see the bike from one of those firms, I
crossed it off my list (after six weeks or so, all I have to show for
my time is lists, mostly of what doesn't work, or doesn't work
together). Their bike isn't simple at all, too many little
crossbracing pipes for my liking. (I actually have a better -- fully
triangulated -- small-pipe design than theirs on my drawing board, but
I filed it because of the uncertainties of finding a builder.)

Okay, so can you buy a frame off the shelf? The hell you can. There is
only one steel frame actually available off the shelf for 700Cx2.35in
BIg Apples and that is the Surly Karate Monkey, and, while brilliant
by its own lights, for me such a short chassis bike is simply crude
and rough.

Then I decided to give up most of what I wanted and just buy a
Cannondale, which at least is beautifully presented and can be fitted
up with the Karate Monkey fork if the Headshok is too much trouble,
and a guy who has the same frame wrote to me saying it looks like 50mm
tyres might fit, and 42mm certainly will because he's done it. The
dealers advertising it couldn't deliver; Cannondale had sold out.

Okay. So back to where I started. Can I get a custom frame made?
Should be easy, I thought. But most of the guys on a list Clive
referred me to, and other lists I already had, are no longer in
business, and the ones who are good enough to have survived are full
up and/or very casual about new customers, usually both. Sample: A
week after writing to him, I called one guy and asked him if he's
interested. Oh, yes, he said, he's reading my spec and he'll get back
to me with a quote by the end of another week. I'm still waiting.

Now I'm talking to another firm, a longtime survivor of excellent
reputation They're happy for me to talk directly to the guy who'll be
brazing my bike, so at least the time I invested in the spec got me a
hearing with a guy who can make it happen.

But I'm so cynical from my experiences these last couple of months, I
have a fallback position, in which I have traced a lugged steel frame
available off the shelf with which I have to give up only two of my
desires (drop back from 60mm to 50mm tyres, and give up either the low
standover or the disc brakes, because the dedicated Rohloff lugged
frame is not available in the trapeze, only a generic long horizontal
slot with which you cannot use disc brakes). However, even here, after
two letters querying whether the 50mm BA will fit with space left for
a suitable mudguard, I have different answers from different people
and will have to ask again.

At least one of my lists is a sourced outfitting schedule, which is
already something saved from this frustrating waste of time.

BS (bike stuff)

Bike stuff and bull****, in my present mood, are not much different.
I'm about a hairbreadth from saying thehellwithit and building the
bike I want out of wood, which is a wonderful material.

Andre Jute
Frustrated


Andre, look around at:

http://www.santosbikes.nl/

I read they comming to Ireland. I have one of their bikes.
http://picasaweb.google.nl/LoetjeH/Santos#
It has an eccentric BB.....

Lou

Qui si parla Campagnolo aka Peter Chisholm wrote:
On Nov 20, 2:21 am, Andre Jute wrote:
[...]
Okay. So back to where I started. Can I get a custom frame made?

Waterfordbikes.com

Richard could do it.
[...]

Hey, I already pointed out the Waterford mixte [1] frame to Mr. Jute,
and suggested asking for modifications to fit the desired Rohloff hub
and 60-622 Schwalbe Big Apple tires. Our local economy [2] needs all the
help it can get right now. But Mr. Jute dismissed the idea as ridiculous
[3].

[1] http://waterfordbikes.com/now/models.php?Model=655.
[2] I have no investment or business interest in Waterford Precision Cycles.
[3]
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/browse_thread/thread/400dd212e8403864/6333c6a36de8ffbf?hl=en&lnk=gst&q=sherman+waterford +mixte#6333c6a36de8ffbf.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
If you are not a part of the solution, you are a part of the precipitate.

André Jute wrote:
[...] It isn't even like I'm undecided and window shopping. I know precisely
what I want: a very simple, unbreakable, infinitely servicable bike
with refined comfort. So I'm speccing lugged steel[...]

No deicing salts in Ireland?

This is what eventually happens to steel frames around he
http://www.yellowjersey.org/mitch.html.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
If you are not a part of the solution, you are a part of the precipitate.

On Nov 20, 11:19*am, "Gennaro" wrote:
"Andre Jute" wrote...

[...]

Not slack, busy choosing a new bike
[...]
Frustrated. I'm six weeks into the process and no forrarder.
[...]
Andre Jute
Frustrated

Although I agree with the fact that you shouldn't look for bikes
too far away from home, I must say that I finally got my
very classical Roberts steel touring bike and I'm delighted with
it and quite happy with the whole buying experience.

I'll write a bit more about it as soon as I can (and in the hope
it's not too OT...). Here's the bike:http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/2282/img5643cu2.jpg
(I hope this link works!)

bye
Gennaro

Nice bike. I don't see how a fellow's new bike can be off-topic at
all. The frame is the basis of all the tech -- in fact the last
bastion of individuality on bikes, now that everything else is bought
off the shelf and not even a bracket is manufactured by the bicyclist.

Andre Jute
Once cyclists were men

On Nov 20, 3:27*pm, Qui si parla Campagnolo
wrote:
On Nov 20, 2:21*am, Andre Jute wrote:



On Nov 20, 4:21 am, "Bill Sornson" wrote:

Andre Jute wrote:
Andre Jute
Not slack, busy choosing a new bike

COMPLETELY OFF-TOPIC IN THIS NEWSGROUP!!!

I apologize abjectly for talking about bicycles.

(Whaddya gettin'?)

Frustrated. I'm six weeks into the process and no forrarder.

It isn't even like I'm undecided and window shopping. I know precisely
what I want: a very simple, unbreakable, infinitely servicable bike
with refined comfort. So I'm speccing lugged steel, lowish (trapeze or
mixte) standover, long wheelbase, Rohloff hub, Big Apple 60-622,
dynohub, disc brakes, no suspension. (I'm even thinking of keeping to
cable-operated discs in order to keep everything simple.)

Doesn't sound like much to ask for, does it? So I thought. I was in
for a disappointment. Only two firms actually build a bike like that
and dealing with their dealers is a nightmare of unanswered letters
and rude shop assistants wittering on in German about long delivery
lists. Actually, when I got to see the bike from one of those firms, I
crossed it off my list (after six weeks or so, all I have to show for
my time is lists, mostly of what doesn't work, or doesn't work
together). Their bike isn't simple at all, too many little
crossbracing pipes for my liking. (I actually have a better -- fully
triangulated -- small-pipe design than theirs on my drawing board, but
I filed it because of the uncertainties of finding a builder.)

Okay, so can you buy a frame off the shelf? The hell you can. There is
only one steel frame actually available off the shelf for 700Cx2.35in
BIg Apples and that is the Surly Karate Monkey, and, while brilliant
by its own lights, for me such a short chassis bike is simply crude
and rough.

Then I decided to give up most of what I wanted and just buy a
Cannondale, which at least is beautifully presented *and can be fitted
up with the Karate Monkey fork if the Headshok is too much trouble,
and a guy who has the same frame wrote to me saying it looks like 50mm
tyres might fit, and 42mm certainly will because he's done it. The
dealers advertising it couldn't deliver; Cannondale had sold out.

Okay. So back to where I started. Can I get a custom frame made?

Waterfordbikes.com

Richard could do it.

I'm in Ireland. The States is a bit far. Carriage would be a killer
for a box big enough to hold a frame, and then I would have to pay
import duty and sales taxes. And by then a Waterford frame, which
starts out very expensive indeed by European standards and doesn't
appear to offer anything a good European frame doesn't, will be so
expensive that it will leave a sour taste in my mouth every time I
ride it -- I'm not exactly an ascetic but there is a certain pride in
getting decent value for your money.

One of the grand things about the European Union is that one can order
from any country starting at the edge of the Atlantic, where I live in
Ireland, to deep into the former Soviet Union, and pay no customs
duties and sales taxes only once (in theory, my local customs can make
me pay the difference between sales tax in the country of origin and
Ireland, where it is higher; in practice they don't bother).

-- Andre Jute

Should be easy, I thought. But most of the guys on a list Clive
referred me to, and other lists I already had, are no longer in
business, and the ones who are good enough to have survived are full
up and/or very casual about new customers, usually both. Sample: A
week after writing to him, I called one guy and asked him if he's
interested. Oh, yes, he said, he's reading my spec and he'll get back
to me with a quote by the end of another week. I'm still waiting.

Now I'm talking to another firm, a longtime survivor of excellent
reputation They're happy for me to talk directly to the guy who'll be
brazing my bike, so at least the time I invested in the spec got me a
hearing with a guy who can make it happen.

But I'm so cynical from my experiences these last couple of months, I
have a fallback position, in which I have traced a lugged steel frame
available off the shelf with which I have to give up only two of my
desires (drop back from 60mm to 50mm tyres, and give up either the low
standover or the disc brakes, because the dedicated Rohloff lugged
frame is not available in the trapeze, only a generic long horizontal
slot with which you cannot use disc brakes). However, even here, after
two letters querying whether the 50mm BA will fit with space left for
a suitable mudguard, I have different answers from different people
and will have to ask again.

At least one of my lists is a sourced outfitting schedule, which is
already something saved from this frustrating waste of time.

BS (bike stuff)

Bike stuff and bull****, in my present mood, are not much different.
I'm about a hairbreadth from saying thehellwithit and building the
bike I want out of wood, which is a wonderful material.

Andre Jute
Frustrated

On Nov 20, 6:59*pm, Lou Holtman wrote:
Andre Jute schreef:



On Nov 20, 4:21 am, "Bill Sornson" wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
Andre Jute
Not slack, busy choosing a new bike
COMPLETELY OFF-TOPIC IN THIS NEWSGROUP!!!

I apologize abjectly for talking about bicycles.

(Whaddya gettin'?)

Frustrated. I'm six weeks into the process and no forrarder.

It isn't even like I'm undecided and window shopping. I know precisely
what I want: a very simple, unbreakable, infinitely servicable bike
with refined comfort. So I'm speccing lugged steel, lowish (trapeze or
mixte) standover, long wheelbase, Rohloff hub, Big Apple 60-622,
dynohub, disc brakes, no suspension. (I'm even thinking of keeping to
cable-operated discs in order to keep everything simple.)

Doesn't sound like much to ask for, does it? So I thought. I was in
for a disappointment. Only two firms actually build a bike like that
and dealing with their dealers is a nightmare of unanswered letters
and rude shop assistants wittering on in German about long delivery
lists. Actually, when I got to see the bike from one of those firms, I
crossed it off my list (after six weeks or so, all I have to show for
my time is lists, mostly of what doesn't work, or doesn't work
together). Their bike isn't simple at all, too many little
crossbracing pipes for my liking. (I actually have a better -- fully
triangulated -- small-pipe design than theirs on my drawing board, but
I filed it because of the uncertainties of finding a builder.)

Okay, so can you buy a frame off the shelf? The hell you can. There is
only one steel frame actually available off the shelf for 700Cx2.35in
BIg Apples and that is the Surly Karate Monkey, and, while brilliant
by its own lights, for me such a short chassis bike is simply crude
and rough.

Then I decided to give up most of what I wanted and just buy a
Cannondale, which at least is beautifully presented *and can be fitted
up with the Karate Monkey fork if the Headshok is too much trouble,
and a guy who has the same frame wrote to me saying it looks like 50mm
tyres might fit, and 42mm certainly will because he's done it. The
dealers advertising it couldn't deliver; Cannondale had sold out.

Okay. So back to where I started. Can I get a custom frame made?
Should be easy, I thought. But most of the guys on a list Clive
referred me to, and other lists I already had, are no longer in
business, and the ones who are good enough to have survived are full
up and/or very casual about new customers, usually both. Sample: A
week after writing to him, I called one guy and asked him if he's
interested. Oh, yes, he said, he's reading my spec and he'll get back
to me with a quote by the end of another week. I'm still waiting.

Now I'm talking to another firm, a longtime survivor of excellent
reputation They're happy for me to talk directly to the guy who'll be
brazing my bike, so at least the time I invested in the spec got me a
hearing with a guy who can make it happen.

But I'm so cynical from my experiences these last couple of months, I
have a fallback position, in which I have traced a lugged steel frame
available off the shelf with which I have to give up only two of my
desires (drop back from 60mm to 50mm tyres, and give up either the low
standover or the disc brakes, because the dedicated Rohloff lugged
frame is not available in the trapeze, only a generic long horizontal
slot with which you cannot use disc brakes). However, even here, after
two letters querying whether the 50mm BA will fit with space left for
a suitable mudguard, I have different answers from different people
and will have to ask again.

At least one of my lists is a sourced outfitting schedule, which is
already something saved from this frustrating waste of time.

BS (bike stuff)

Bike stuff and bull****, in my present mood, are not much different.
I'm about a hairbreadth from saying thehellwithit and building the
bike I want out of wood, which is a wonderful material.

Andre Jute
Frustrated

Andre, look around at:

http://www.santosbikes.nl/

I read they comming to Ireland. I have one of their bikes.http://picasaweb.google.nl/LoetjeH/Santos#
It has an eccentric BB.....

Lou

What an impressive bike! Made all the more striking by careful choice
of bright accents against the black. I've added Santos to my list but
I'm really very keen on a brazed bike with lugs. -- Andre Jute