Why do my hard earned tax dollars support a bike team?

Tim McNamara wrote:

"Stefan Pavlik" writes:

In doing so, the USPS can and has kept stamp prices reasonably low

I'm always amazed to send letters to Europeans for under $1 and get
replies which may cost several times as much to send from Europe to
the US. I sent a letter to Ireland a few years ago, cost me US$.40
and the return from Ireland cost nearly US$5.00! Sending that letter
to Ireland now would cost more, but still probably a fraction of what
it would cost someone in Europe to send one to me.

Then again, when I lived in China it cost LESS to send a letter from
Beijing to the US than from the US to the US (around 20 cents vx. 33
cents IIRC). I never figured that one out. I suppose to the US
postal system the mail coming in from China looked like the pre-sorted
kind of "cut-rate commercial" junk mail that costs little to send, too
(only on a much larger scale).

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

Mark Hickey writes:

Tim McNamara wrote:

"Stefan Pavlik" writes:

In doing so, the USPS can and has kept stamp prices reasonably low

I'm always amazed to send letters to Europeans for under $1 and get
replies which may cost several times as much to send from Europe to
the US. I sent a letter to Ireland a few years ago, cost me US$.40
and the return from Ireland cost nearly US$5.00! Sending that
letter to Ireland now would cost more, but still probably a fraction
of what it would cost someone in Europe to send one to me.

Then again, when I lived in China it cost LESS to send a letter from
Beijing to the US than from the US to the US (around 20 cents vx. 33
cents IIRC). I never figured that one out. I suppose to the US
postal system the mail coming in from China looked like the
pre-sorted kind of "cut-rate commercial" junk mail that costs little
to send, too (only on a much larger scale).

That brings up a question I have never thought of. Presumably, I pay
USPS for the stamp and then once it gets to Ireland or France or Italy
or wherever, USPS is paying that country's postal service to actually
deliver the letter. How does that work? And how does it work in
reverse? I'm assuming that Mr. Armstrong and Co. are not out dropping
off letters and parcels on their training rides (contrary to the ads
on TV today).

On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 22:49:18 -0500, Tim McNamara
wrote:

That brings up a question I have never thought of. Presumably, I pay
USPS for the stamp and then once it gets to Ireland or France or Italy
or wherever, USPS is paying that country's postal service to actually
deliver the letter. How does that work? And how does it work in
reverse? I'm assuming that Mr. Armstrong and Co. are not out dropping
off letters and parcels on their training rides (contrary to the ads
on TV today).

as I recall, those rates and protocols are negotiated bilaterally
between national postal services directly and multilaterally through
the Universal Postal Union.

-Luigi

Fx199 wrote:

The problem with your logic, is that Japan's Govt supports and subsidizes
their
industry, hence no level playing field.

That would not explain why Detroit went on building
giant gas-guzzling V8s at a time of tremendous
upheaval in the oil market and increased national
consciousness of air pollution and other environmental
issues. Detroit sealed its own fate. Japanese cars
filled a need that Detroit could not/would not fill. The

need for economical no-nonsense autos had once been
satisfied by American companies; in fact, the
economical auto is a pure American invention. But in
1972, the Volkswagen Beetle surpassed the Model T as
best selling car of all time. By 1980, Toyota was the
world's top auto maker.

It was not a lack of subsidy and support that hurt
American car companies in that critical era. In fact,
IMO it was Detroit's faith that the govt. would
ultimately pave their way and bail them out (in many
ways) that led to the American auto industry's failure
to adapt to a changing market. Why did they expect
this treatment? Why not. The US govt. had already
helped a GM/Firestone/Mack Truck cabal replace
streetcar systems with buses in more than 100
American cities before 1950. The US govt. had already
given Lee Iacocca and his Big Three counterparts a
ten year grace period to meet the Clean Air Act of
1970 (which Lee fought tooth and nail even as the
Japanese and European companies produced engines,
years in advance, that met the new standards). Lee
was right to expect more gifts and support from US
taxpayers, and the gifts were forthcoming. Now there
is no more American Chrysler, but we have things like
huge tax breaks for small business owners who buy
the biggest SUVs. Support like this does not stimulate
innovation, it stifles it. No wonder the Japanese
continue to kick Ford's ass.

Robert

There are more Classics Specialists than there are Tour Specialists
these days.

Makes sense, doesn't it? There are few riders with the combination of
skills to win the Tour de France: Armstrong, Ullrich, maybe Hamilton.
Mayo doesn't yet but he is not yet mature. Julich did have the talent
but didn't have the head for it. Pantani's victory was a one-off.
The genetic sweepstakes are pretty selective for Tour winners. There
are many more riders with the abilities to win the Classics and the
smaller stage races. Luck is a greater factor in one-day races, too.

This is a wrong comparison. There are 10 WC ("classics") races and
only 1 tour each year. If you want to make such a comparison, compare
the two major disciplines in cycling: WC races and Grand Tours. I
think if you try to name the main contenders for those two types of
racing, you won't find more names for classics as for GT's. I agree
if there is a suprising winner it is mostly in classics. But if you
name top favourites, you'll have the same number of riders for each
"discipline". Prove me wrong but to me there aren't more riders with
the ability to win classics than riders with the ability to win a GT.

On 12 Jul 2004 05:43:44 -0700, (Kenny) wrote:

There are 10 WC ("classics") races and
only 1 tour each year. If you want to make such a comparison, compare
the two major disciplines in cycling: WC races and Grand Tours. I
think if you try to name the main contenders for those two types of
racing, you won't find more names for classics as for GT's.

Depends on what you mean by contenders for racing. If you mean who can
win a stage on a given day on one of the three Tours, as well as
winning overall G.C., yes. If you are including anyone that has a role
in the Tour, then also yes, but that has little to do with the thread
to date.

If you mean that there are as many legitimate contenders for winning
the G.C. of a Tour as there are winning any one of the classics i a
given year, that simply doesn't make sense.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

Luigi de Guzman writes:

On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 22:49:18 -0500, Tim McNamara
wrote:

That brings up a question I have never thought of. Presumably, I
pay USPS for the stamp and then once it gets to Ireland or France or
Italy or wherever, USPS is paying that country's postal service to
actually deliver the letter. How does that work? And how does it
work in reverse? I'm assuming that Mr. Armstrong and Co. are not
out dropping off letters and parcels on their training rides
(contrary to the ads on TV today).

as I recall, those rates and protocols are negotiated bilaterally
between national postal services directly and multilaterally through
the Universal Postal Union.

Huh. There's a body I've never heard of. Thanks. Even though I mail
things internationally, I'd never thought of this before Mark's post.

On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 13:16:42 -0500, Tim McNamara
wrote (more or less):

"Stefan Pavlik" writes:

In doing so, the USPS can and has kept stamp prices reasonably low

I'm always amazed to send letters to Europeans for under $1 and get
replies which may cost several times as much to send from Europe to
the US. I sent a letter to Ireland a few years ago, cost me US$.40
and the return from Ireland cost nearly US$5.00! Sending that letter
to Ireland now would cost more, but still probably a fraction of what
it would cost someone in Europe to send one to me.

Quite bizarre - I find postage from the US to the UK is much more
expensive than postage from the UK to the US.


--
Cheers,
Euan
Gawnsoft: http://www.gawnsoft.co.sr
Symbian/Epoc wiki: http://html.dnsalias.net:1122
Smalltalk links (harvested from comp.lang.smalltalk) http://html.dnsalias.net/gawnsoft/smalltalk

"Tim McNamara" wrote in message
...
(K. J. Papai) writes:


... But the
social structure of Europe has loosened immensely and with it the
rigid structure of teams is not as pronounced as it was. Successful
directeurs sportifs have learned how to work with this to best
advantage: Saiz, Riis, etc.

Oddly enough, I don't think Bruyneel is in that mix; he is rather old
school and the team exists to serve the needs of one man in one race.
The result is a team that dminates one race and is merely somewhat
competitive in most others.

Not to nitpick, but Heras did quite well in the Vuelta when he was with U.S.
Postal.
Second in 2002 (barely), first in 2003. That's a bit more than "somewhat
competitive".

Gawnsoft writes:

On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 13:16:42 -0500, Tim McNamara
wrote (more or less):

"Stefan Pavlik" writes:

In doing so, the USPS can and has kept stamp prices reasonably low

I'm always amazed to send letters to Europeans for under $1 and get
replies which may cost several times as much to send from Europe to
the US. I sent a letter to Ireland a few years ago, cost me US$.40
and the return from Ireland cost nearly US$5.00! Sending that
letter to Ireland now would cost more, but still probably a fraction
of what it would cost someone in Europe to send one to me.

Quite bizarre - I find postage from the US to the UK is much more
expensive than postage from the UK to the US.

Sending from within the US to the UK, or ordering from outside the US
for something to be sent from the US to the UK? Sending a letter or a
package? I've never sent anything but letters across the Pond and
don't know what parcel costs are. I sent postcards from France to the
US but can't remember how much it cost in 2002.

Have postage costs been rationalized with the advent of the Euro and
increased interrelationships between EU member states?