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#41
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How can I blacken stainless steel spokes?
Chalo wrote:
jim beam wrote: Chalo wrote: Bill Sornson wrote: jim beam wrote: Bill Sornson wrote: Johan Bornman wrote: Nowadays with all the spoke options I am hard-pressed to keep, or indeed, find stock of all the permutations. How do they blacken spokes and can this be done in a workshop as and when needed? Wok with motor oil. Turn on high. destroys their strength. sigh. He's oversimplifying. �Some surface treatments (e.g. oil residue) will blacken well below the annealing point of stainless, you can soften well below annealing chalo. �you /do/ know about martensitic transitions don't you? Stainless spokes are always made of 300-series _austenitic_ stainless alloy, doctor. They don't heat treat. You can have martensitic spokes or whatever you like, but you'll have to make them yourself. er, on deformation, they become martensitic, circus clown. that's why they're magnetic. because you /do/ know austenitic steels are not magnetic don't you? you /have/ put a magnet up against bike spokes and pondered these things haven't you? A distinguished metallurgical expert like you certainly knows that at about 1100F, or about the temperature at which a steel item _glows red in normal room lighting_, 304 stainless begins to become "sensitized", or what most of us would think of as starting the annealing process. By the time it reaches 1850F it's fully annealed. It'd take a hell of a wok to dish up 1100F. By then you'd have a fire anyway if there were oil involved. Maybe you were thinking about those, ahem, "clever" aluminum spokes made by your favorite rim manufacturer? what are you like underneath that big red nose and funny shoes chalo? apart from being too dumb to know when you're hopelessly out of your depth that is. |
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#42
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How can I blacken stainless steel spokes?
Thanks for all the helpful comments.
Carl - enamelling is not an option, but nice try. I love your links. Peter suggested I just buy black spokes. Easier said than done. I'm not in the US or UK but in South Africa. It's a small market and finding non-standard spokes are difficult. I often have to repair X wheel with two black bladed spokes that need replacement or someone wants a Z wheel that matches his PowerTap or some other oddity. Buying/ importing a box of those specific spokes is not viable and secondly, they're not locally available. As it is, I'm cutting and threading to compensate for the lack of bladed spokes in the country, now I'm faced with the additional problem of black too. I'm looking for something whereby I can quickly/reasonably quickly colour a silver spoke to match that in an existing wheel. I've checked out the local electroplaters but I had no success. The only place that seems to do it is an armaments company and they're not interested in my half dozen spokes. |
#43
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How can I blacken stainless steel spokes?
On Thu, 14 May 2009 05:37:50 -0700, jim beam wrote:
Stainless spokes are always made of 300-series _austenitic_ stainless alloy, doctor. They don't heat treat. You can have martensitic spokes or whatever you like, but you'll have to make them yourself. er, on deformation, they become martensitic, circus clown. that's why they're magnetic. because you /do/ know austenitic steels are not magnetic don't you? you /have/ put a magnet up against bike spokes and pondered these things haven't you? As always with the stuff "jim beam" posts, it is wise to check. First off, a quick refresher on 300-series; these are Chromium-Nickle Austentic steels - the book I grabbed uses the old SAE numbers, but the last three digits are the same; 301 has the lowest Nickle, and 325 the highest; the range is from about 6% to over 20% Nickle enhances the stainless-ness, and most importantly in the instant discussion tends to maintain the austentic structure, with the result that the steel remains non-magnetic, even after cold-working. I do not know what variety of stainless is found in the spokes I have used. And, as we know, 'jim beam" places a value on experience that far exceeds that of fact as reported by his elders and betters... ....so... ....I took a magnet - one of those good strong "super-magnets" that they put in kids building toys, and went to where the spokes are. First some spokes I pulled out of a push-bike wheel some time ago - butted, stainless, marked with a "Z" (or perhaps an "N"; depends on how you look at it). The magnet didn't attract any of them. Next some spokes on the recumbent trike; straight, stainless, marked with something that is either a shield of a thickish "U". The magnet didn't attract any of 'em. THEN, just for fun, some motor-bike spokes - a set that I built in the 70's, stainless butted spokes from Buchannan's. Not magnetic. Another set from Buchannans, not built yet; also stainless and butted - just got em a few weeks ago. Not magnetic. This of course, is not exhaustive. And cold-working can & does affect the magnetic qualities of some stainless steels; but so far, it appears that for spokes is does so to a remarkable degree only in that small part of the cycle world where the sky is a different colour and there are no shift-keys. |
#44
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How can I blacken stainless steel spokes?
Johan Bornman wrote:
Thanks for all the helpful comments. Carl - enamelling is not an option, but nice try. I love your links. Peter suggested I just buy black spokes. Easier said than done. I'm not in the US or UK but in South Africa. It's a small market and finding non-standard spokes are difficult. I often have to repair X wheel with two black bladed spokes that need replacement or someone wants a Z wheel that matches his PowerTap or some other oddity. Buying/ importing a box of those specific spokes is not viable and secondly, they're not locally available. As it is, I'm cutting and threading to compensate for the lack of bladed spokes in the country, now I'm faced with the additional problem of black too. I'm looking for something whereby I can quickly/reasonably quickly colour a silver spoke to match that in an existing wheel. I've checked out the local electroplaters but I had no success. The only place that seems to do it is an armaments company and they're not interested in my half dozen spokes. For the occasional odd piece, we use a black paint pen. http://www.marvy.com/product_details.aspx?ProductID=40 Faster than you'd expect. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#45
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How can I blacken stainless steel spokes?
jtaylor wrote:
jim beam wrote: Chalo wrote: Stainless spokes are always made of 300-series _austenitic_ stainless alloy, doctor. *They don't heat treat. *You can have martensitic spokes or whatever you like, but you'll have to make them yourself. er, on deformation, they become martensitic, circus clown. *that's why they're magnetic. *because you /do/ know austenitic steels are not magnetic don't you? *you /have/ put a magnet up against bike spokes and pondered these things haven't you? As always with the stuff "jim beam" posts, it is wise to check. First off, a quick refresher on 300-series; these are Chromium-Nickle Austentic steels - the book I grabbed uses the old SAE numbers, but the last three digits are the same; 301 has the lowest Nickle, and 325 the highest; the range is from about 6% to over 20% *Nickle enhances the stainless-ness, and most importantly in the instant discussion tends to maintain the austentic structure, with the result that the steel remains non-magnetic, even after cold-working. I do not know what variety of stainless is found in the spokes I have used. And, as we know, 'jim beam" places a value on experience that far exceeds that of fact as reported by his elders and betters... ...so... ...I took a magnet - one of those good strong "super-magnets" that they put in kids building toys, and went to where the spokes are. First some spokes I pulled out of a push-bike wheel some time ago - butted, stainless, marked with a "Z" (or perhaps an "N"; depends on how you look at it). *The magnet didn't attract any of them. Next some spokes on the recumbent trike; straight, stainless, marked with something that is either a shield of a thickish "U". *The magnet didn't attract any of 'em. THEN, just for fun, some motor-bike spokes - a set that I built in the 70's, stainless butted spokes from Buchannan's. *Not magnetic. Another set from Buchannans, not built yet; also stainless and butted - just got em a few weeks ago. *Not magnetic. This of course, is not exhaustive. *And cold-working can & does affect the magnetic qualities of some stainless steels; but so far, it appears that for spokes is does so to a remarkable degree only in that small part of the cycle world where the sky is a different colour and there are no shift-keys. I shouldn't even bother correcting "jim beam's" more noteworthy technical errors within his purported field of expertise. All it nets us us more erroneous bull puckey and unwarranted abuse. But thanks for confirming what I was saying anyway. Chalo |
#46
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How can I blacken stainless steel spokes?
"_" wrote in message
.. . snip This of course, is not exhaustive. And cold-working can & does affect the magnetic qualities of some stainless steels; but so far, it appears that for spokes is does so to a remarkable degree only in that small part of the cycle world where the sky is a different colour and there are no shift-keys. LOL, that was a great post Cheers Dre |
#47
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How can I blacken stainless steel spokes?
On 5/13/2009 10:18 PM Tosspot wrote:
Mike Rocket J Squirrel wrote: On 5/13/2009 6:44 PM RonSonic wrote: On Wed, 13 May 2009 21:16:02 -0400, Still Just Me wrote: On Wed, 13 May 2009 22:05:52 GMT, Peter Cole wrote: I don't like nukes, wouldn't consider making one at home, but that doesn't mean I don't find the subject interesting. I think you need to open up your horizons a little more. Backyard ICBM's can be an enjoyable hobby. Neighborhood Nuclear Superiority is the new stainless gas grill. Which we can make black. Not without annealing the metal and causing nuclear Armagedon. Well, yeah. That goes without saying. -- Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Bend, Oregon |
#48
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How can I blacken stainless steel spokes?
In article
, Chalo wrote: jtaylor wrote: jim beam wrote: Chalo wrote: Stainless spokes are always made of 300-series _austenitic_ stainless alloy, doctor. *They don't heat treat. *You can have martensitic spokes or whatever you like, but you'll have to make them yourself. er, on deformation, they become martensitic, circus clown. *that's why they're magnetic. *because you /do/ know austenitic steels are not magnetic don't you? *you /have/ put a magnet up against bike spokes and pondered these things haven't you? As always with the stuff "jim beam" posts, it is wise to check. First off, a quick refresher on 300-series; these are Chromium-Nickle Austentic steels - the book I grabbed uses the old SAE numbers, but the last three digits are the same; 301 has the lowest Nickle, and 325 the highest; the range is from about 6% to over 20% *Nickle enhances the stainless-ness, and most importantly in the instant discussion tends to maintain the austentic structure, with the result that the steel remains non-magnetic, even after cold-working. I do not know what variety of stainless is found in the spokes I have used. And, as we know, 'jim beam" places a value on experience that far exceeds that of fact as reported by his elders and betters... ...so... ...I took a magnet - one of those good strong "super-magnets" that they put in kids building toys, and went to where the spokes are. First some spokes I pulled out of a push-bike wheel some time ago - butted, stainless, marked with a "Z" (or perhaps an "N"; depends on how you look at it). *The magnet didn't attract any of them. Next some spokes on the recumbent trike; straight, stainless, marked with something that is either a shield of a thickish "U". *The magnet didn't attract any of 'em. THEN, just for fun, some motor-bike spokes - a set that I built in the 70's, stainless butted spokes from Buchannan's. *Not magnetic. Another set from Buchannans, not built yet; also stainless and butted - just got em a few weeks ago. *Not magnetic. This of course, is not exhaustive. *And cold-working can & does affect the magnetic qualities of some stainless steels; but so far, it appears that for spokes is does so to a remarkable degree only in that small part of the cycle world where the sky is a different colour and there are no shift-keys. I shouldn't even bother correcting "jim beam's" more noteworthy technical errors within his purported field of expertise. All it nets us us more erroneous bull puckey and unwarranted abuse. But thanks for confirming what I was saying anyway. Thank you for recording the facts of the matter. We all learn a little bit (except jim beam). Furthermore, we must have the actual state of affairs to stand against jim beam's misstatements. It is not pleasant to do so. Thanks again. -- Michael Press |
#49
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How can I blacken stainless steel spokes?
Chalo wrote:
jtaylor wrote: jim beam wrote: Chalo wrote: Stainless spokes are always made of 300-series _austenitic_ stainless alloy, doctor. �They don't heat treat. �You can have martensitic spokes or whatever you like, but you'll have to make them yourself. er, on deformation, they become martensitic, circus clown. �that's why they're magnetic. �because you /do/ know austenitic steels are not magnetic don't you? �you /have/ put a magnet up against bike spokes and pondered these things haven't you? As always with the stuff "jim beam" posts, it is wise to check. First off, a quick refresher on 300-series; these are Chromium-Nickle Austentic steels - the book I grabbed uses the old SAE numbers, but the last three digits are the same; 301 has the lowest Nickle, and 325 the highest; the range is from about 6% to over 20% �Nickle enhances the stainless-ness, and most importantly in the instant discussion tends to maintain the austentic structure, with the result that the steel remains non-magnetic, even after cold-working. I do not know what variety of stainless is found in the spokes I have used. And, as we know, 'jim beam" places a value on experience that far exceeds that of fact as reported by his elders and betters... ...so... ...I took a magnet - one of those good strong "super-magnets" that they put in kids building toys, and went to where the spokes are. First some spokes I pulled out of a push-bike wheel some time ago - butted, stainless, marked with a "Z" (or perhaps an "N"; depends on how you look at it). �The magnet didn't attract any of them. Next some spokes on the recumbent trike; straight, stainless, marked with something that is either a shield of a thickish "U". �The magnet didn't attract any of 'em. THEN, just for fun, some motor-bike spokes - a set that I built in the 70's, stainless butted spokes from Buchannan's. �Not magnetic. Another set from Buchannans, not built yet; also stainless and butted - just got em a few weeks ago. �Not magnetic. This of course, is not exhaustive. �And cold-working can & does affect the magnetic qualities of some stainless steels; but so far, it appears that for spokes is does so to a remarkable degree only in that small part of the cycle world where the sky is a different colour and there are no shift-keys. I shouldn't even bother correcting "jim beam's" more noteworthy technical errors within his purported field of expertise. All it nets us us more erroneous bull puckey and unwarranted abuse. But thanks for confirming what I was saying anyway. Chalo wow! q: so how many liars does it take to deceive a clown? a: none - he can deceive himself. http://i42.tinypic.com/25ez3uf.jpg of course, all the ignorati will get their panties in a bunch and shout "superglue" long before they bother to get a magnet and expose the idiocy of the famous jtaylor who apparently doesn't know what a magnet is, but hey, stupidity is not a barrier to entry on usenet. |
#50
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How can I blacken stainless steel spokes?
On May 14, 9:56*pm, jim beam wrote:
Chalo wrote: jtaylor wrote: jim beam wrote: Chalo wrote: Stainless spokes are always made of 300-series _austenitic_ stainless alloy, doctor. They don't heat treat. You can have martensitic spokes or whatever you like, but you'll have to make them yourself. er, on deformation, they become martensitic, circus clown. that's why they're magnetic. because you /do/ know austenitic steels are not magnetic don't you? you /have/ put a magnet up against bike spokes and pondered these things haven't you? As always with the stuff "jim beam" posts, it is wise to check. First off, a quick refresher on 300-series; these are Chromium-Nickle Austentic steels - the book I grabbed uses the old SAE numbers, but the last three digits are the same; 301 has the lowest Nickle, and 325 the highest; the range is from about 6% to over 20% Nickle enhances the stainless-ness, and most importantly in the instant discussion tends to maintain the austentic structure, with the result that the steel remains non-magnetic, even after cold-working. I do not know what variety of stainless is found in the spokes I have used. And, as we know, 'jim beam" places a value on experience that far exceeds that of fact as reported by his elders and betters... ...so... ...I took a magnet - one of those good strong "super-magnets" that they put in kids building toys, and went to where the spokes are. First some spokes I pulled out of a push-bike wheel some time ago - butted, stainless, marked with a "Z" (or perhaps an "N"; depends on how you look at it). The magnet didn't attract any of them. Next some spokes on the recumbent trike; straight, stainless, marked with something that is either a shield of a thickish "U". The magnet didn't attract any of 'em. THEN, just for fun, some motor-bike spokes - a set that I built in the 70's, stainless butted spokes from Buchannan's. Not magnetic. Another set from Buchannans, not built yet; also stainless and butted - just got em a few weeks ago. Not magnetic. This of course, is not exhaustive. And cold-working can & does affect the magnetic qualities of some stainless steels; but so far, it appears that for spokes is does so to a remarkable degree only in that small part of the cycle world where the sky is a different colour and there are no shift-keys. I shouldn't even bother correcting "jim beam's" more noteworthy technical errors within his purported field of expertise. *All it nets us us more erroneous bull puckey and unwarranted abuse. But thanks for confirming what I was saying anyway. Chalo wow! q: so how many liars does it take to deceive a clown? a: none - he can deceive himself. http://i42.tinypic.com/25ez3uf.jpg of course, all the ignorati will get their panties in a bunch and shout "superglue" long before they bother to get a magnet and expose the idiocy of the famous jtaylor who apparently doesn't know what a magnet is, but hey, stupidity is not a barrier to entry on usenet.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - RBT SATs time! "Andre" is to "Scum" as "jim" is to "_____" a) clown b) ignorati c) bull****ter d) all of the above |
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