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THE CASE FOR A MANDATORY CYCLE HELMET LAW 
(IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA)
On Thursday, September 6, 2018 at 12:54:44 AM UTC-4, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Wed, 5 Sep 2018 12:41:29 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot wrote: Where I am there's virtually no talk about MANDATORY helmet laws. However many motorists and BICYCLISTS would like to see bicyclists licensed so t hat they can fined or charged whenever they hit someone or do something stupid and illegal that causes or nearly causes a vehicular accident involving a motor vehicle or other bicyclist. The Bicyclists can already be charged for violating the law in all 50 states in the US. No licensing necessary. Bicyclists (and others) may not be charged for stupidity, on the other hand, because being stupid is not against the law- unless said stupidity leads to breaking the law. Also, many here want to see electric scooters/pedal bikes licensed too since so many people using them totally disregard rules of the road and city bylawas as to where such things can be ridden. And yet a plurality if not majority of motor vehicle operators that I see every day violate some law or other while I am watching- speeding, changing lanes without signaling, driving while distracted, driving out of the designated lane, speeding, failing to stop for stop signs and traffic signals, speeding, nonfunctioning head/taillights, speeding, etc., etc., etc. Licensing clearly does not result in compliance with the law and, at least in my state, no actual competence to operate a motor vehicle in traffic is required to get a license. All licensing seems to do is create a false notion of accountability. Take people's licenses away and they just drive without one. What people here want is a means to identify bicyclists/bicycle who/that leave the scene. Thus the wish for bicycle licenses. Cheers |
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#12
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THE CASE FOR A MANDATORY CYCLE HELMET LAW 
(IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA)
On 06/09/2018 2:35 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, September 6, 2018 at 12:54:44 AM UTC-4, Tim McNamara wrote: On Wed, 5 Sep 2018 12:41:29 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot wrote: Where I am there's virtually no talk about MANDATORY helmet laws. However many motorists and BICYCLISTS would like to see bicyclists licensed so t hat they can fined or charged whenever they hit someone or do something stupid and illegal that causes or nearly causes a vehicular accident involving a motor vehicle or other bicyclist. The Bicyclists can already be charged for violating the law in all 50 states in the US. No licensing necessary. Bicyclists (and others) may not be charged for stupidity, on the other hand, because being stupid is not against the law- unless said stupidity leads to breaking the law. Also, many here want to see electric scooters/pedal bikes licensed too since so many people using them totally disregard rules of the road and city bylawas as to where such things can be ridden. And yet a plurality if not majority of motor vehicle operators that I see every day violate some law or other while I am watching- speeding, changing lanes without signaling, driving while distracted, driving out of the designated lane, speeding, failing to stop for stop signs and traffic signals, speeding, nonfunctioning head/taillights, speeding, etc., etc., etc. Licensing clearly does not result in compliance with the law and, at least in my state, no actual competence to operate a motor vehicle in traffic is required to get a license. All licensing seems to do is create a false notion of accountability. Take people's licenses away and they just drive without one. What people here want is a means to identify bicyclists/bicycle who/that leave the scene. Thus the wish for bicycle licenses. Cheers Here in Quebec they want that but there are also those that want licensing as a fee for cyclists. They seem to think that since they drive cars, they own the road and resent cyclists using THEIR roads. Of course they're wrong since property tax pays for most of the roads that cyclists use here and not licensing fees. And anyway, most of us also drive cars and pay the same taxes and fees that they do but use THEIR road less than they do. It's difficult to explain that to stupid though. |
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THE CASE FOR A MANDATORY CYCLE HELMET LAW 
(IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA)
On 9/6/2018 2:35 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, September 6, 2018 at 12:54:44 AM UTC-4, Tim McNamara wrote: On Wed, 5 Sep 2018 12:41:29 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot wrote: Where I am there's virtually no talk about MANDATORY helmet laws. However many motorists and BICYCLISTS would like to see bicyclists licensed so t hat they can fined or charged whenever they hit someone or do something stupid and illegal that causes or nearly causes a vehicular accident involving a motor vehicle or other bicyclist. The Bicyclists can already be charged for violating the law in all 50 states in the US. No licensing necessary. Bicyclists (and others) may not be charged for stupidity, on the other hand, because being stupid is not against the law- unless said stupidity leads to breaking the law. Also, many here want to see electric scooters/pedal bikes licensed too since so many people using them totally disregard rules of the road and city bylawas as to where such things can be ridden. And yet a plurality if not majority of motor vehicle operators that I see every day violate some law or other while I am watching- speeding, changing lanes without signaling, driving while distracted, driving out of the designated lane, speeding, failing to stop for stop signs and traffic signals, speeding, nonfunctioning head/taillights, speeding, etc., etc., etc. Licensing clearly does not result in compliance with the law and, at least in my state, no actual competence to operate a motor vehicle in traffic is required to get a license. All licensing seems to do is create a false notion of accountability. Take people's licenses away and they just drive without one. What people here want is a means to identify bicyclists/bicycle who/that leave the scene. Thus the wish for bicycle licenses. There are countless cases of motorists leaving the scene of an accident, usually followed by reports like "The driver was in a black SUV. It may have some front end damage. Anyone with information should call the local police..." There's almost never mention of a license plate number, probably because they're so difficult to read quickly and not easy to remember. Now extrapolate to a license plate on a bicycle. How easily would it be seen? How often would it make a difference? Bike registration has been tried many times. Most such schemes have abandoned within a year or two because the cost of running them greatly exceed the revenues and the benefits. But there are always true believers, just as with perpetual motion machines. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#14
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THE CASE FOR A MANDATORY CYCLE HELMET LAW 
(IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA)
Frank Krygowski writes:
On 9/6/2018 2:35 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Thursday, September 6, 2018 at 12:54:44 AM UTC-4, Tim McNamara wrote: On Wed, 5 Sep 2018 12:41:29 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot wrote: Where I am there's virtually no talk about MANDATORY helmet laws. However many motorists and BICYCLISTS would like to see bicyclists licensed so t hat they can fined or charged whenever they hit someone or do something stupid and illegal that causes or nearly causes a vehicular accident involving a motor vehicle or other bicyclist. The Bicyclists can already be charged for violating the law in all 50 states in the US. No licensing necessary. Bicyclists (and others) may not be charged for stupidity, on the other hand, because being stupid is not against the law- unless said stupidity leads to breaking the law. Also, many here want to see electric scooters/pedal bikes licensed too since so many people using them totally disregard rules of the road and city bylawas as to where such things can be ridden. And yet a plurality if not majority of motor vehicle operators that I see every day violate some law or other while I am watching- speeding, changing lanes without signaling, driving while distracted, driving out of the designated lane, speeding, failing to stop for stop signs and traffic signals, speeding, nonfunctioning head/taillights, speeding, etc., etc., etc. Licensing clearly does not result in compliance with the law and, at least in my state, no actual competence to operate a motor vehicle in traffic is required to get a license. All licensing seems to do is create a false notion of accountability. Take people's licenses away and they just drive without one. What people here want is a means to identify bicyclists/bicycle who/that leave the scene. Thus the wish for bicycle licenses. There are countless cases of motorists leaving the scene of an accident, usually followed by reports like "The driver was in a black SUV. It may have some front end damage. Anyone with information should call the local police..." There's almost never mention of a license plate number, probably because they're so difficult to read quickly and not easy to remember. Now extrapolate to a license plate on a bicycle. How easily would it be seen? How often would it make a difference? We live in a brave new world, in which cameras that can read and recognize license plates are sprinkled all over the landscape. This allows governments to keep track of our movements in way that would have been impossible not even a few years ago. Bicycle license plates would allow the same benevolent oversight for cyclists as it does for motorists. Once facial recognition software is ready for prime time pedestrians will enjoy the same benefits. -- |
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THE CASE FOR A MANDATORY CYCLE HELMET LAW (IN THE UNITED STATESOF AMERICA)
On Thursday, September 6, 2018 at 9:03:22 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
Frank Krygowski writes: On 9/6/2018 2:35 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Thursday, September 6, 2018 at 12:54:44 AM UTC-4, Tim McNamara wrote: On Wed, 5 Sep 2018 12:41:29 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot wrote: Where I am there's virtually no talk about MANDATORY helmet laws. However many motorists and BICYCLISTS would like to see bicyclists licensed so t hat they can fined or charged whenever they hit someone or do something stupid and illegal that causes or nearly causes a vehicular accident involving a motor vehicle or other bicyclist. The Bicyclists can already be charged for violating the law in all 50 states in the US. No licensing necessary. Bicyclists (and others) may not be charged for stupidity, on the other hand, because being stupid is not against the law- unless said stupidity leads to breaking the law. Also, many here want to see electric scooters/pedal bikes licensed too since so many people using them totally disregard rules of the road and city bylawas as to where such things can be ridden. And yet a plurality if not majority of motor vehicle operators that I see every day violate some law or other while I am watching- speeding, changing lanes without signaling, driving while distracted, driving out of the designated lane, speeding, failing to stop for stop signs and traffic signals, speeding, nonfunctioning head/taillights, speeding, etc., etc., etc. Licensing clearly does not result in compliance with the law and, at least in my state, no actual competence to operate a motor vehicle in traffic is required to get a license. All licensing seems to do is create a false notion of accountability. Take people's licenses away and they just drive without one. What people here want is a means to identify bicyclists/bicycle who/that leave the scene. Thus the wish for bicycle licenses. There are countless cases of motorists leaving the scene of an accident, usually followed by reports like "The driver was in a black SUV. It may have some front end damage. Anyone with information should call the local police..." There's almost never mention of a license plate number, probably because they're so difficult to read quickly and not easy to remember. Now extrapolate to a license plate on a bicycle. How easily would it be seen? How often would it make a difference? We live in a brave new world, in which cameras that can read and recognize license plates are sprinkled all over the landscape. This allows governments to keep track of our movements in way that would have been impossible not even a few years ago. Bicycle license plates would allow the same benevolent oversight for cyclists as it does for motorists. Once facial recognition software is ready for prime time pedestrians will enjoy the same benefits. License plate readers are both rare and not very effective. There is virtually NO WAY that facial recognition would work. This is the real world and not NCIS. |
#16
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THE CASE FOR A MANDATORY CYCLE HELMET LAW (IN THE UNITED STATESOF AMERICA)
On Thursday, September 6, 2018 at 9:03:22 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
Frank Krygowski writes: On 9/6/2018 2:35 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Thursday, September 6, 2018 at 12:54:44 AM UTC-4, Tim McNamara wrote: On Wed, 5 Sep 2018 12:41:29 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot wrote: Where I am there's virtually no talk about MANDATORY helmet laws. However many motorists and BICYCLISTS would like to see bicyclists licensed so t hat they can fined or charged whenever they hit someone or do something stupid and illegal that causes or nearly causes a vehicular accident involving a motor vehicle or other bicyclist. The Bicyclists can already be charged for violating the law in all 50 states in the US. No licensing necessary. Bicyclists (and others) may not be charged for stupidity, on the other hand, because being stupid is not against the law- unless said stupidity leads to breaking the law. Also, many here want to see electric scooters/pedal bikes licensed too since so many people using them totally disregard rules of the road and city bylawas as to where such things can be ridden. And yet a plurality if not majority of motor vehicle operators that I see every day violate some law or other while I am watching- speeding, changing lanes without signaling, driving while distracted, driving out of the designated lane, speeding, failing to stop for stop signs and traffic signals, speeding, nonfunctioning head/taillights, speeding, etc., etc., etc. Licensing clearly does not result in compliance with the law and, at least in my state, no actual competence to operate a motor vehicle in traffic is required to get a license. All licensing seems to do is create a false notion of accountability. Take people's licenses away and they just drive without one. What people here want is a means to identify bicyclists/bicycle who/that leave the scene. Thus the wish for bicycle licenses. There are countless cases of motorists leaving the scene of an accident, usually followed by reports like "The driver was in a black SUV. It may have some front end damage. Anyone with information should call the local police..." There's almost never mention of a license plate number, probably because they're so difficult to read quickly and not easy to remember. Now extrapolate to a license plate on a bicycle. How easily would it be seen? How often would it make a difference? We live in a brave new world, in which cameras that can read and recognize license plates are sprinkled all over the landscape. This allows governments to keep track of our movements in way that would have been impossible not even a few years ago. Bicycle license plates would allow the same benevolent oversight for cyclists as it does for motorists. Once facial recognition software is ready for prime time pedestrians will enjoy the same benefits. But since you brought this up, we have the 4th Amendment that protects us from unusual searches and/or seizures. That means that they have to have a COURT ORDER to search you or anything that you own. It also means that the basis of the Trump Tower "collusion" charges HAD TO HAVE A COURT ORDER TO TAPE THE COMMUJNICATIONS IN TRUMP TOWER. This of necessity would have had to be issued by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court. There is no record of the FICA issuing a FISA warrant. The FBI took it entirely in their hands to illegally tap Trump Tower. This so outraged at least one FBI agent that he passed a warning off to Trump. The illegality of this is so overwhelming in what is expected to be the nations foremost law enforcement agency that heads absolutely MUST roll. So where is the present Director of the FBI, Christopher Wray? |
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THE CASE FOR A MANDATORY CYCLE HELMET LAW (IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA)
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#19
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THE CASE FOR A MANDATORY CYCLE HELMET LAW 
(IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA)
On 9/5/2018 3:41 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Where I am there's virtually no talk about MANDATORY helmet laws. IIRC, you're somewhere in Ontario. There's virtually no talk about mandatory helmet laws there specifically because a group of cyclists - including one who used to post here - successfully argued against them. You should thank those cyclists for your freedom of choice. BTW, a few years ago my wife and I did a driving and camping trip to Cape Breton. While in a tiny town in New Brunswick, on a zero-traffic Sunday evening, we rode our bikes a few blocks to a restaurant and back. We were stopped on a residential street by a local cop and told that helmets were mandatory for all ages everywhere in Canada. She was wrong, of course. Yes, they are mandatory for all ages in NB and we knew that; but we didn't even bring them along. You'd be subject to the same nonsense if not for people you've argued against. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#20
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THE CASE FOR A MANDATORY CYCLE HELMET LAW 
(IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA)
On 9/6/2018 8:42 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/5/2018 3:41 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: Where I am there's virtually no talk about MANDATORY helmet laws. IIRC, you're somewhere in Ontario. There's virtually no talk about mandatory helmet laws there specifically because a group of cyclists - including one who used to post here - successfully argued against them. You should thank those cyclists for your freedom of choice. BTW, a few years ago my wife and I did a driving and camping trip to Cape Breton. While in a tiny town in New Brunswick, on a zero-traffic Sunday evening, we rode our bikes a few blocks to a restaurant and back. We were stopped on a residential street by a local cop and told that helmets were mandatory for all ages everywhere in Canada. She was wrong, of course. Yes, they are mandatory for all ages in NB and we knew that; but we didn't even bring them along. You'd be subject to the same nonsense if not for people you've argued against. Indeed, in a related issue the winning phrase was, "Let those who ride decide." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sd-XHD_GuM -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
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