Spoke threads exposed on new wheel - Safe?

Pete- DT 2.0 x 16mm have 22.5 turns worth of thread, 12mm have 18. BRBR

Grazie for the specifics.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Jobst- That's not the way it was supposed to work. That would require a
different spoke length for the same ERD but different nipple lengths.
BRBR

Correct, altho I used them for CXP-30, which required them so enough nipple was
exposed inside the rim for building BUT when calculating I rounded down and
subtracted one MM for these nipps.

Jobst As you
see from this thread, ones first impression is that the threads should
be longer, when in reality they should not, all rim ERD's requiring
the same length spoke regardless of nipple type. BRBR


But for DT they are and this 'may' help the OP.



Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Pete Biggs writes:

I just noticed that Peter Chisholm has recommended just
replacing the nips with 16mm. That's probably the best &
cheapest solution, although it may look a little goofy.

That won't help much, the threads in most longer nipples not
being any longer than the short ones. It will only be a
cover-up, not an improvement in thread engagement.

Does that include DT: one of the most popular makes?

DT 2.0 x 16mm have 22.5 turns worth of thread, 12mm have 18.

That's not the way it was supposed to work.

Not supposed to work for what?

The way it was supposed to work is that all rims with the same ERD
used the same spoke length. The way to make that work is that all
spoke nipples, regardless of length, have the same length of thread
starting at the head end, the rest of the nipple having a smooth
tubular bore as spoke nipples have.

I don't mean you're supposed to use all the thread up, just that
this test indicates that more of the nipple is threaded. If I'm
correct then 16mm would help if one has already selected spokes that
are too short and isn't doesn't want to change the spokes - which is
the OP's situation, I thought.

That for a too short spoke, the one with more thread would help, is
correct but as I said, it is not what the industry formerly worked
from. That is why there is an ERD dimension that is used in spoke
length calculations.

That would require a different spoke length for the same ERD but
different nipple lengths.

Required for what?

FOR DIFFERENT NIPPLE LENGTHS.

I hope someone who doesn't build wheels didn't mess this up.

Whom mess what up?

The spoke length required for a given ERD. I think I'm hearing echos.
Are you sure you read the above?

As you see from this thread, ones first impression is that the
threads should be longer, when in reality they should not

Should? *Are* DT 16mm threads longer or are they not longer?

DT does not always do what one "should" as you nay have seen with long
spoke elbows that caused a rash of elbow failures reported here.

, all rim ERD's requiring the same length spoke regardless of
nipple type.

I have one inch nipples for wood rims that have the same length of
threads at the head end as medium and short nipples, the ones
commonly used on metal rims today... except for he aero crew.

I'm screwing nipple onto spoke (with an extra long threaded
section) and counting turns from the point where it engages enough
to just hold, to point where end of spoke is flush with top of
head.

That's too bad.

The above was just a test - not done on a wheel.

Where have all the experts gone???

I would expect an expert to understand what I was doing and to write
a clearer explanation and correction if I was measuring the wrong
thing rather than speak in riddles. If I am right, then I expect
experts to know a DT 16mm nipple has a longer thread.

That you found nipples with more thread is a boon to those who
miscalculate their spoke lengths, but is a loss to those who did it
correctly and wanted to use these nipples because their rim cross
section required a longer reach nipple.

What is the best way of measuring the length of the threaded section
within the nipple?

Cut just the threads off a spoke of the size appropriate for the
nipple so that it has a flat end and insert it into the nipple
normally and measure how fat it goes in.

Jobst Brandt

On inspection, I noticed that the left side as 2-3
threads exposed all
around whereas the right side has 5-6 threads exposed.
I'm comcerned
that the spokes are too short and I don't have enough
threads embedded
in the brass nipples. BRBR


Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
They are too short. You could use 16mm nipps tho, which may fix the problem.

Peter! I didn't expect that from you.

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/NIPPLES.JPG

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Once again, as far as my understanding goes, if the nipples don't fail when
you stress relieve the spokes, they will not fail when you ride the wheel.

Ed Chait

On inspection, I noticed that the left side as 2-3 threads exposed
all
around whereas the right side has 5-6 threads exposed. I'm comcerned
that the spokes are too short and I don't have enough threads embedded
in the brass nipples. BRBR


Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:

They are too short. You could use 16mm nipps tho, which may fix the
problem.


A Muzi wrote:
Peter! I didn't expect that from you.

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/NIPPLES.JPG

I didn't know when I wrote that that DT has since changed to
4mm extra thread in the long nipples.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

andy- http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/NIPPLES.JPG

I didn't know when I wrote that that DT has since changed to
4mm extra thread in the long nipples.
BRBR

'so 'kay-I have used a bunch of DT 16mm nipps when building CXP-30s when they
were the rave...

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

A Muzi wrote:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/NIPPLES.JPG

I didn't know when I wrote that that DT has since changed to
4mm extra thread in the long nipples.

It's not as much as much as 4mm but the DT 16mm nipples I recently bought
do have more thread than 12mm nipples. Might be just enough to make the
difference between success and failure with some too-short spokes.

My DT 16mm spokes have 4.5 more threads (whole turns).

How many threads per mm in DT 2.0 nipples/spokes?

~PB

B.C. Cletta wrote:
: or (B): simply measure the depth of the hole from the bead diameter,
: 622-mm for a 700c. don't forget to 2x it.

Is that 622mm consistent for different rims? When I swap my front and rear
wheels on my truing stand, I have to adjust the vertical truing doohickey by
about 1mm.

- mark

"Pete Biggs" wrote:

DT 2.0 x 16mm have 22.5 turns worth of thread, 12mm have 18.

That's not the way it was supposed to work.

Not supposed to work for what? I don't mean you're supposed to use all
the thread up, just that this test indicates that more of the nipple is
threaded. If I'm correct then 16mm would help if one has already selected
spokes that are too short and isn't doesn't want to change the spokes -
which is the OP's situation, I thought.

Some folks may think that threading more of the nipple is a good
thing. At the risk of stating the obvious, the problem with a longer
threaded section is that the nipple will bottom out on the unthreaded
part of the spoke if the "correct" spoke length is used.

Art Harris