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  #1  
Old October 18th 04, 04:54 AM
James S. Prine
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Default OT Flame War

The US has violated or withdrawn from treaties when it felt it was the
correct course of action. This is a rather weak argument for supporting
racist colonialism.


You contend that the U.S. sent military forces to South Vietnam simply for
purposes of racist colonialism?

"Colonel David Crockett...would *not* have supported Kerry."


So what?


Perhaps because Crockett valued honesty, character, integrity, and moral
courage? All virtues sadly absent in Kerry.

As the sign in Baghdad said, "Saddam Gone, Job Done, Go Home". Good advice.


Well, we had Hanoi Jane, so I take it you're attempting to become "Baghdad
Tom"?

g




James S. Prine

"Colonel David Crockett...would *not* have supported Kerry."

http://hometown.aol.com/jsprine/


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  #2  
Old October 18th 04, 04:58 AM
James S. Prine
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They have a long way to go to equal the 2-3 million Vietnamese civilians
killed by the US


Cites, please? And have you forgotten the splendid work of the VC...*routine*
assassinations, mass murders, mass rapes, torture, theft, etc.? The V.C.
didn't invent atrocities, but they certainly put a fine polish on their
methods.

Not as random acts, but as policy. In fact, if Kerry had substituted "VC" for
"U.S." when he condemned the actions of U.S. troops in the field, he would have
been pretty accurate.


James S. Prine

"Colonel David Crockett...would *not* have supported Kerry."

http://hometown.aol.com/jsprine/


  #3  
Old October 18th 04, 05:12 AM
Tom Sherman
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James S. Prine wrote:

The US has violated or withdrawn from treaties when it felt it was the
correct course of action. This is a rather weak argument for supporting
racist colonialism.



You contend that the U.S. sent military forces to South Vietnam simply for
purposes of racist colonialism?


That is why the French were there, and why the US supported the French
instead of the Vietnamese nationalists in the late 1940's and 1950's.
The Vietnamese turned to "Communism" as a means of national liberation,
not from ideology.

"Colonel David Crockett...would *not* have supported Kerry."


So what?



Perhaps because Crockett valued honesty, character, integrity, and moral
courage? All virtues sadly absent in Kerry.


And even more absent in Dick Cheney and George W. Bush, who didn't even
have the decency to fight in a war they supported.

As the sign in Baghdad said, "Saddam Gone, Job Done, Go Home". Good advice.



Well, we had Hanoi Jane, so I take it you're attempting to become "Baghdad
Tom"?

g


Putting a "g" after such statements does nothing to make them more
acceptable.

--
Tom Sherman - Curmudgeon and Pedant

  #4  
Old October 18th 04, 05:18 AM
Tom Sherman
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James S. Prine wrote:

They have a long way to go to equal the 2-3 million Vietnamese civilians
killed by the US



Cites, please?...


This is common historical knowledge - would you ask for a citation that
Germany invaded Poland in 1939? Sheesh!

--
Tom Sherman - Curmudgeon and Pedant

  #5  
Old October 18th 04, 06:59 AM
Mark Leuck
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"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...
James S. Prine wrote:

They have a long way to go to equal the 2-3 million Vietnamese civilians
killed by the US



Cites, please?...


This is common historical knowledge - would you ask for a citation that
Germany invaded Poland in 1939? Sheesh!

--
Tom Sherman - Curmudgeon and Pedant


When ask for facts you deflect the issue, I've yet to see any evidence the
US killed 2 to 3 million people

Considering all of the other complaints you seem to have about the US
perhaps you want to believe this happend?


  #6  
Old October 18th 04, 07:36 AM
Edward Dolan
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"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...
James S. Prine wrote:

[...]
What is your solution, apart from your notion of returning to a form of
isolationism?


Stop propping up corrupt dictatorships in the Arab and Muslim world (and
everywhere else for that matter), removing US forces from the Middle East,
and stop shielding Israel in the UN from the consequences of its illegal
and immoral actions in the occupied territories, and make it clear that
the US does not support a "Greater Israel" encompassing everything west of
the Jordan River.


Mr. Sherman has never understood real politik and he never will. He is an
idealist and operates in a world of how things ought to be instead of how
they in fact are. That is just another reason why we do not want to have a
liberal like Kerry in the White House. The times are too precarious for such
foolishness.

Israel is more than capable of looking after it's own interests without any
input from the US.

After these actions are taken, there will be almost no support for anti-US
terrorists, so the few remaining fanatics can be dealt with by
international law enforcement.


Mr. Sherman also does not understand the nature of the Islamic religion
which advocates Jihad (Holy War). Until this religion is reformed, we will
always be in danger from them because they may be able to acquire nuclear
weapons.

I was not advocating isolationism, and to say so it a deliberate
distortion, i.e. falsehood.


Mr. Sherman would have this nation interfere abroad in order to further his
liberal agenda. It would be interesting right now for instance to know what
he thinks this country should be doing about the genocide that is presently
occurring in the Sudan.

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota




  #7  
Old October 18th 04, 08:22 AM
Edward Dolan
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"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...
James S. Prine wrote:

The US has violated or withdrawn from treaties when it felt it was the
correct course of action. This is a rather weak argument for supporting
racist colonialism.



You contend that the U.S. sent military forces to South Vietnam simply
for
purposes of racist colonialism?


That is why the French were there, and why the US supported the French
instead of the Vietnamese nationalists in the late 1940's and 1950's. The
Vietnamese turned to "Communism" as a means of national liberation, not
from ideology.


If in fact that is what the North Vietnamese did, then it was an incredibly
stupid thing for them to do. The Vietnam War was lost because Johnson did
not know how to fight a war. Kerry would be the same sort of loser asshole.
That is why we want Bush to be our president for the next 4 years.

"Colonel David Crockett...would *not* have supported Kerry."

So what?



Perhaps because Crockett valued honesty, character, integrity, and moral
courage? All virtues sadly absent in Kerry.


And even more absent in Dick Cheney and George W. Bush, who didn't even
have the decency to fight in a war they supported.


Now Mr. Sherman has gone completely bonkers. Why should nice middle class
and upper class kids be in the trenches when there are plenty of lower class
kids who can do that sort of thing. When I was in the Navy I noted that it
was only the lower class kids (usually from the South) who thought the Navy
was a good deal. We middle class types couldn't wait to get out. It has been
ever thus.

As the sign in Baghdad said, "Saddam Gone, Job Done, Go Home". Good
advice.



Well, we had Hanoi Jane, so I take it you're attempting to become
"Baghdad
Tom"?

g


Putting a "g" after such statements does nothing to make them more
acceptable.


Mr. Sherman is a classic appeaser and an apologist for evil in this world.
He is that because he hates America above all else which he thinks is
nothing but a country for the very rich. In others words, he is nutty as a
fruit cake.

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota





  #8  
Old October 18th 04, 08:45 AM
Edward Dolan
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Default


"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...
James S. Prine wrote:

They have a long way to go to equal the 2-3 million Vietnamese civilians
killed by the US



Cites, please?...


This is common historical knowledge - would you ask for a citation that
Germany invaded Poland in 1939? Sheesh!


I see that Mr. Sherman, the pedant, is falling down on the job badly. He
used to look up this stuff for us and present it as a fact. But of course, I
could always dispute his so-called facts, so maybe he has given up on that
particular liberal tactic. Now he can just have his "common historical
knowledge" and I can just have my "common historical knowledge." I will
leave it to the reader as to who has any intelligence and wisdom when it
comes to common historical knowledge.

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota


  #9  
Old October 18th 04, 05:04 PM
James S. Prine
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This is common historical knowledge - would you ask for a citation that
Germany invaded Poland in 1939?


No, the 'facts' about the Vietnamese civilians killed during the Vietnam War
were generated primarily by propaganda-happy the Communists...hardly people I'd
base any serious research on.




James S. Prine

"Colonel David Crockett...would *not* have supported Kerry."

http://hometown.aol.com/jsprine/


  #10  
Old October 18th 04, 05:10 PM
James S. Prine
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Default

Such studies of the state of education are regularly published by the
mainstream media in the US, so this should be common knowledge for
literate people.


Interesting that you insinuate that those who differ from your prejudices
aren't literate people. The U.S. mainstream media is hardly unbiased. Of
course I've seen on television programs where befuddled U.S. college students
couldn't locate the U.S. on a globe, but to imply that nearly all Americans are
that ignorant is clearly inaccurate.

I am sure if you look you can find references for such
studies.


I'm sure if you look, you can find references to a time when aeronautical
engineers still "proved" that the common bumblebee couldn't fly, due to its
weight/lift ratio.

In short, just because it's a 'reference', it doesn't have to be factual.





James S. Prine

"Colonel David Crockett...would *not* have supported Kerry."

http://hometown.aol.com/jsprine/


 




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