Who is at fault and how should it be dealt?

Excuse the cross-posting but I think this could be interesting for
discussion.

Came across this hypothetical scenario on a cycling forum...

Several riders are returning from their weekend club ride and are riding
together in a bunch. One cyclist signals turning and another cyclist,
riding second wheel in the group, looks back to wave him an extended
farewell. In the meanwhile, the cyclist at the head of the bunch signals
stopping at a congested round-about, slowing to an almost complete stop.
the cyclist waving his mate fails to heed the signal, and the loud
warnings of others behind him, and collides with the cyclist at the head
of the bunch writing-off his expensive carbon fiber frame.

Who is at fault here? If you were the cyclist with the wrecked frame,
what would you be thinking? What would you expect of the rider who
rammed you from behind?
--

Artoi wrote:
Excuse the cross-posting but I think this could be interesting for
discussion.

Came across this hypothetical scenario on a cycling forum...

Several riders are returning from their weekend club ride and are riding
together in a bunch. One cyclist signals turning and another cyclist,
riding second wheel in the group, looks back to wave him an extended
farewell. In the meanwhile, the cyclist at the head of the bunch signals
stopping at a congested round-about, slowing to an almost complete stop.
the cyclist waving his mate fails to heed the signal, and the loud
warnings of others behind him, and collides with the cyclist at the head
of the bunch writing-off his expensive carbon fiber frame.

Who is at fault here? If you were the cyclist with the wrecked frame,
what would you be thinking? What would you expect of the rider who
rammed you from behind?
--


Hypothetical, of course. I've never seen anyone "fail to heed".

Steve (no waving either)

In article ,
Steven Bornfeld wrote:

Artoi wrote:
Excuse the cross-posting but I think this could be interesting for
discussion.

Came across this hypothetical scenario on a cycling forum...

Several riders are returning from their weekend club ride and are riding
together in a bunch. One cyclist signals turning and another cyclist,
riding second wheel in the group, looks back to wave him an extended
farewell. In the meanwhile, the cyclist at the head of the bunch signals
stopping at a congested round-about, slowing to an almost complete stop.
the cyclist waving his mate fails to heed the signal, and the loud
warnings of others behind him, and collides with the cyclist at the head
of the bunch writing-off his expensive carbon fiber frame.

Who is at fault here? If you were the cyclist with the wrecked frame,
what would you be thinking? What would you expect of the rider who
rammed you from behind?
--

Hypothetical, of course. I've never seen anyone "fail to heed".

Well, let's just discuss it as a hypothetical...
--

Artoi wrote:
Excuse the cross-posting but I think this could be interesting for
discussion.

Came across this hypothetical scenario on a cycling forum...

Several riders are returning from their weekend club ride and are
riding together in a bunch. One cyclist signals turning and another
cyclist, riding second wheel in the group, looks back to wave him an
extended farewell. In the meanwhile, the cyclist at the head of the
bunch signals stopping at a congested round-about, slowing to an
almost complete stop. the cyclist waving his mate fails to heed the
signal, and the loud warnings of others behind him, and collides with
the cyclist at the head of the bunch writing-off his expensive carbon
fiber frame.

Who is at fault here? If you were the cyclist with the wrecked frame,
what would you be thinking? What would you expect of the rider who
rammed you from behind?

You'd have to be doing something really odd there. You aren't likely
to wreck a frame by crashing into it from behind at a slow speed
(wheels maybe, but frame?)- so unless this guy looking behind is
cruising down a hill at 50kph towards a busy roundabout while looking
back (which is really stupid), it doesn't seem likely in the first
place.

That said, if you aren't looking where you're going and you hit
something, you're pretty much automatically at fault, especially if
what you hit is in the right place. So - IMO, guy at the front gets a
new bike (in the same price range, not taking the **** with a 5 grand
colnago) and the guy not looking pays.

Pete

On Nov 21, 9:30 am, Pete wrote:
Artoi wrote:
Excuse the cross-posting but I think this could be interesting for
discussion.

Came across this hypothetical scenario on a cycling forum...

Several riders are returning from their weekend club ride and are
riding together in a bunch. One cyclist signals turning and another
cyclist, riding second wheel in the group, looks back to wave him an
extended farewell. In the meanwhile, the cyclist at the head of the
bunch signals stopping at a congested round-about, slowing to an
almost complete stop. the cyclist waving his mate fails to heed the
signal, and the loud warnings of others behind him, and collides with
the cyclist at the head of the bunch writing-off his expensive carbon
fiber frame.

Who is at fault here? If you were the cyclist with the wrecked frame,
what would you be thinking? What would you expect of the rider who
rammed you from behind?

You'd have to be doing something really odd there. You aren't likely
to wreck a frame by crashing into it from behind at a slow speed
(wheels maybe, but frame?)-

a digression, but i've seen exactly that. at a race a rider crossed
the line and stopped abruptly and a rider rammed him from behind
breaking his frame (a giant TCR carbon).

On Nov 21, 7:39 am, Artoi wrote:
Excuse the cross-posting but I think this could be interesting for
discussion.

Came across this hypothetical scenario on a cycling forum...

Several riders are returning from their weekend club ride and are riding
together in a bunch. One cyclist signals turning and another cyclist,
riding second wheel in the group, looks back to wave him an extended
farewell. In the meanwhile, the cyclist at the head of the bunch signals
stopping at a congested round-about, slowing to an almost complete stop.
the cyclist waving his mate fails to heed the signal, and the loud
warnings of others behind him, and collides with the cyclist at the head
of the bunch writing-off his expensive carbon fiber frame.

Who is at fault here? If you were the cyclist with the wrecked frame,
what would you be thinking? What would you expect of the rider who
rammed you from behind?

Don't look back. Glance. Real quick.

Because otherwise, you'll run into someone or something-- it's a
setup; nothing ever happens until you have your head turned.

What kind of new frame are you going to get g? --D-y

If you were the cyclist with the wrecked frame,
what would you be thinking?

I'd be thinking, what was I thinking riding with these f'ing ******s?

wrote:


If you were the cyclist with the wrecked frame,
what would you be thinking?

I'd be thinking, what was I thinking riding with these f'ing ******s?

But most people think that even if they don't end up with a wrecked frame.

--
Bill Asher

"Artoi" wrote in message
...
Excuse the cross-posting but I think this could be interesting for
discussion.

Came across this hypothetical scenario on a cycling forum...

Several riders are returning from their weekend club ride and are riding
together in a bunch. One cyclist signals turning and another cyclist,
riding second wheel in the group, looks back to wave him an extended
farewell. In the meanwhile, the cyclist at the head of the bunch signals
stopping at a congested round-about, slowing to an almost complete stop.
the cyclist waving his mate fails to heed the signal, and the loud
warnings of others behind him, and collides with the cyclist at the head
of the bunch writing-off his expensive carbon fiber frame.

Who is at fault here? If you were the cyclist with the wrecked frame,
what would you be thinking? What would you expect of the rider who
rammed you from behind?
--

Hell no. Any official or unoffical bunch ride has to be a case of ride at
your own risk or it loses all of its appeal and is no fun anymore. There's
always a risk of accident, even accidents caused by stupidity, in any type
of performance or bunch ride and if you can't live with that ride solo, buy
a cheaper bike and wear a full suit of armour lined with cotton wool.

Tend to their wounds and assist in getting your fallen comrade's bike up &
running again (or help guard it while someone fetches a vehicle to collect
it) but forget this financial liability nonsense. I think that would be an
appalling thing to happen to the sport.

Perhaps the answer here is insurance. Can you get insurance for this type of
thing?

--
www.ozcableguy.com
www.oztechnologies.com

On Nov 22, 10:19 am, "OzCableguy"
wrote:
"Artoi" wrote in message

...



Excuse the cross-posting but I think this could be interesting for
discussion.

Came across this hypothetical scenario on a cycling forum...

Several riders are returning from their weekend club ride and are riding
together in a bunch. One cyclist signals turning and another cyclist,
riding second wheel in the group, looks back to wave him an extended
farewell. In the meanwhile, the cyclist at the head of the bunch signals
stopping at a congested round-about, slowing to an almost complete stop.
the cyclist waving his mate fails to heed the signal, and the loud
warnings of others behind him, and collides with the cyclist at the head
of the bunch writing-off his expensive carbon fiber frame.

Who is at fault here? If you were the cyclist with the wrecked frame,
what would you be thinking? What would you expect of the rider who
rammed you from behind?
--

Hell no. Any official or unoffical bunch ride has to be a case of ride at
your own risk or it loses all of its appeal and is no fun anymore. There's
always a risk of accident, even accidents caused by stupidity, in any type
of performance or bunch ride and if you can't live with that ride solo, buy
a cheaper bike and wear a full suit of armour lined with cotton wool.

Tend to their wounds and assist in getting your fallen comrade's bike up &
running again (or help guard it while someone fetches a vehicle to collect
it) but forget this financial liability nonsense. I think that would be an
appalling thing to happen to the sport.

Surely you're joking?

It is fine to live-and-let live for minor accidents. Unfortunately,
not all accidents are so minor, or cause relatively little damage.

Perhaps the answer here is insurance. Can you get insurance for this type of
thing?

If you aren't at least third-party insured and you are racing (or
commuting), you're just being naive..

Low cost insurance (such as the standard BNSW membership) covers the
guilty party (in this case, the guy behind) for this sort of thing:

snip
POLICY INFORMATION

Insured:
Members of Bicycle New South Wales Incorporated

Scope of Cover:
Members of Bicycle New South Wales legal liability to compensate third
parties with regard to Personal Injury/Death and/or Property Damage as
a result of an occurrence arising from the bicycle riding activities
of the member.

Limit of Liability
$20,000,000 any one occurrence and in the aggregate

Deductible (excess)
$1,000 Each & Every Incident
snip