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#21
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State your opinion on COVID-19
On Sat, 28 Mar 2020 21:09:46 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote: Ralph Barone writes: AMuzi wrote: On 3/28/2020 2:18 PM, Mark J. wrote: On 3/28/2020 10:09 AM, AMuzi wrote: On 3/28/2020 11:01 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote: As usual, discussions here have devolved into childish name calling by some, demeaning published facts and data, quick political jabs, defensive changes of subjet, and "I know better than anyone" allusions. Things get obscured. So I'd like to get a direct answer, especially from Tom and from Andrew. Tom: Do you really think COVID-19 is no worse than an ordinary seasonal flu? Andrew: Do you really think COVID-19 is no worse than an ordinary seasonal flu? Of course, this is a discussion group. Others are very welcome to give their opinion too. BTW, our bike club now has its first member in intensive care on a ventilator. I consider him a really good friend, one of the guys who (almost) always came on my night rides. He's much younger than me and has been a hell of a rider, a daily commuter, fast and high mileage. Up to here, yes. Death is not trivial to the fatality himself, but the numbers haven't supported panic so far. I will change my opinion when/if the numbers change [...] Sadly, give it a week or two. Cases are roughly quadrupling each week in the US [based on CDC reports]. Exponential growth doesn't catch the public eye when the absolute numbers are low, but those low numbers don't last long. We are solidly on track to eclipse the "regular-flu" numbers. Mark J. but having known people who died of pneumonia from influenza, my point was merely that it's the same death (and an unpleasant one at that) to fewer people. see also: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/images/about...nza-burden.png If influenza were unknown until this year, people would freak out at forty million infected and 50,000 Americans dead. If you want to do something useful and patriotic, do something about the even larger number of Americans who die annually by _hospital acquired infection_. That number is not getting smaller year over year- it's growing. Another danger is a mental incapacity caused by a political correctness infestation. From WMAL today: https://www.wmal.com/news/yes-we-lon...uldnt-anymore/ Headline: "Yes, we long have referred to disease outbreaks by geographic places. Here’s why we shouldn’t anymore" Main argument worthy of a failing grade in a high school logic class: "During the 2003 SARS outbreak, media coverage of the disease led to the stigmatization of Asian communities in countries such as Canada. It devastated Chinese-owned businesses, especially those located in Chinatowns." I looked for SARS on a map. Couldn't find it. Perhaps in time all this will pass, just as we no longer use "the French disease". Or “the Spanish Flu”, named after the one country that had the balls to admit it existed. You oversimplify -- Spain was neutral during the Great War, so their press remained freer than that of combatant nations. "In war, the first casualty is the truth". I think that is an over simplification. In war, or perhaps at any time, there are at least two truths, our's and their's. "Our" news is, of course, true and honest while "Their" news is, of course, nothing but lies :-) (Then there is "that other news" that both Us and Them label as pure fabrication :-) -- cheers, John B. |
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#22
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State your opinion on COVID-19
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 08:40:50 +0700, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 28 Mar 2020 21:00:31 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 3/28/2020 7:15 PM, Radey Shouman wrote: Frank Krygowski writes: We have one friend with whom we shared a six-foot-separated picnic. She has no symptoms, but she had to take off her mask to eat. Other friends (we've seen a dozen, max) have been almost as careful, but no masks. A dozen since the Ohio "shelter in place" order? Honestly that seems like a large number to me. Our social life is pretty much all remote now, aside from two or three chance meetings. About half of those were on March 17, before the official order, but even then we were being very careful. At that time, they had said "6 feet minimum" and (I think) "no more than 10 in a group." Since then, the friends we've seen have all been outdoors, on well-separated hikes, walks or bike rides. And since then, we've been to only one grocery, one deli for takeout, and one pharmacy. BTW, the pharmacy (a block from our house) was closed for several days for "deep cleaning." Apparently one or two employees tested positive. I was in there today to get a prescription, and all the old staff had been temporarily replaced. They're all in self quarantine. I read about "cleaning" and I understand that virus are not living, in the sense of other creatures and I have also read that a dead body is not capable of transmitting a viral disease, but how long does a virus, or perhaps more accurately a virion, remain viable and able to infect another creature if it is outside a living body. Or in simple terms if a virion falls on the floor how long can it lay there and still be capable of causing a disease? It depends on the surface. For sars-Cov2, Cu about 4 hours to plastic for weeks. also depends on the mu-flora and wheather if gets consumed ' |
#23
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State your opinion on COVID-19
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 03:03:38 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote: On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 08:40:50 +0700, John B. wrote: On Sat, 28 Mar 2020 21:00:31 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 3/28/2020 7:15 PM, Radey Shouman wrote: Frank Krygowski writes: We have one friend with whom we shared a six-foot-separated picnic. She has no symptoms, but she had to take off her mask to eat. Other friends (we've seen a dozen, max) have been almost as careful, but no masks. A dozen since the Ohio "shelter in place" order? Honestly that seems like a large number to me. Our social life is pretty much all remote now, aside from two or three chance meetings. About half of those were on March 17, before the official order, but even then we were being very careful. At that time, they had said "6 feet minimum" and (I think) "no more than 10 in a group." Since then, the friends we've seen have all been outdoors, on well-separated hikes, walks or bike rides. And since then, we've been to only one grocery, one deli for takeout, and one pharmacy. BTW, the pharmacy (a block from our house) was closed for several days for "deep cleaning." Apparently one or two employees tested positive. I was in there today to get a prescription, and all the old staff had been temporarily replaced. They're all in self quarantine. I read about "cleaning" and I understand that virus are not living, in the sense of other creatures and I have also read that a dead body is not capable of transmitting a viral disease, but how long does a virus, or perhaps more accurately a virion, remain viable and able to infect another creature if it is outside a living body. Or in simple terms if a virion falls on the floor how long can it lay there and still be capable of causing a disease? It depends on the surface. For sars-Cov2, Cu about 4 hours to plastic for weeks. also depends on the mu-flora and wheather if gets consumed ' Ok, on a plastic surface it is viable for weeks. But what is Cu? and I did look... and came across 82 definitions, starting with Credit Union and ending with Coefficient of Utilization. -- cheers, John B. |
#24
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State your opinion on COVID-19
On Sunday, 29 March 2020 00:18:31 UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 03:03:38 -0000 (UTC), news18 wrote: On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 08:40:50 +0700, John B. wrote: On Sat, 28 Mar 2020 21:00:31 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 3/28/2020 7:15 PM, Radey Shouman wrote: Frank Krygowski writes: We have one friend with whom we shared a six-foot-separated picnic. She has no symptoms, but she had to take off her mask to eat. Other friends (we've seen a dozen, max) have been almost as careful, but no masks. A dozen since the Ohio "shelter in place" order? Honestly that seems like a large number to me. Our social life is pretty much all remote now, aside from two or three chance meetings. About half of those were on March 17, before the official order, but even then we were being very careful. At that time, they had said "6 feet minimum" and (I think) "no more than 10 in a group." Since then, the friends we've seen have all been outdoors, on well-separated hikes, walks or bike rides. And since then, we've been to only one grocery, one deli for takeout, and one pharmacy. BTW, the pharmacy (a block from our house) was closed for several days for "deep cleaning." Apparently one or two employees tested positive. I was in there today to get a prescription, and all the old staff had been temporarily replaced. They're all in self quarantine. I read about "cleaning" and I understand that virus are not living, in the sense of other creatures and I have also read that a dead body is not capable of transmitting a viral disease, but how long does a virus, or perhaps more accurately a virion, remain viable and able to infect another creature if it is outside a living body. Or in simple terms if a virion falls on the floor how long can it lay there and still be capable of causing a disease? It depends on the surface. For sars-Cov2, Cu about 4 hours to plastic for weeks. also depends on the mu-flora and wheather if gets consumed ' Ok, on a plastic surface it is viable for weeks. But what is Cu? and I did look... and came across 82 definitions, starting with Credit Union and ending with Coefficient of Utilization. -- cheers, John B. Cu (from Latin: cuprum)is the symbol for copper. Cheers |
#25
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State your opinion on COVID-19
On Sat, 28 Mar 2020 22:12:37 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote: On Sunday, 29 March 2020 00:18:31 UTC-4, John B. wrote: On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 03:03:38 -0000 (UTC), news18 wrote: On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 08:40:50 +0700, John B. wrote: On Sat, 28 Mar 2020 21:00:31 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 3/28/2020 7:15 PM, Radey Shouman wrote: Frank Krygowski writes: We have one friend with whom we shared a six-foot-separated picnic. She has no symptoms, but she had to take off her mask to eat. Other friends (we've seen a dozen, max) have been almost as careful, but no masks. A dozen since the Ohio "shelter in place" order? Honestly that seems like a large number to me. Our social life is pretty much all remote now, aside from two or three chance meetings. About half of those were on March 17, before the official order, but even then we were being very careful. At that time, they had said "6 feet minimum" and (I think) "no more than 10 in a group." Since then, the friends we've seen have all been outdoors, on well-separated hikes, walks or bike rides. And since then, we've been to only one grocery, one deli for takeout, and one pharmacy. BTW, the pharmacy (a block from our house) was closed for several days for "deep cleaning." Apparently one or two employees tested positive. I was in there today to get a prescription, and all the old staff had been temporarily replaced. They're all in self quarantine. I read about "cleaning" and I understand that virus are not living, in the sense of other creatures and I have also read that a dead body is not capable of transmitting a viral disease, but how long does a virus, or perhaps more accurately a virion, remain viable and able to infect another creature if it is outside a living body. Or in simple terms if a virion falls on the floor how long can it lay there and still be capable of causing a disease? It depends on the surface. For sars-Cov2, Cu about 4 hours to plastic for weeks. also depends on the mu-flora and wheather if gets consumed ' Ok, on a plastic surface it is viable for weeks. But what is Cu? and I did look... and came across 82 definitions, starting with Credit Union and ending with Coefficient of Utilization. -- cheers, John B. Cu (from Latin: cuprum)is the symbol for copper. Cheers Or Christian Union, or Coming Unglued, or Celeron Unit, or Cardiac Unit, or... :-) -- cheers, John B. |
#26
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State your opinion on COVID-19
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 13:12:34 +0700, John B. wrote:
It depends on the surface. For sars-Cov2, Cu about 4 hours to plastic for weeks. also depends on the mu-flora and wheather if gets consumed ' Ok, on a plastic surface it is viable for weeks. But what is Cu? and I did look... and came across 82 definitions, starting with Credit Union and ending with Coefficient of Utilization. -- cheers, John B. Cu (from Latin: cuprum)is the symbol for copper. Cheers Or Christian Union, or Coming Unglued, or Celeron Unit, or Cardiac Unit, or... :-) Yes, any of those might have it too, but you wouldn't normally define them as a surface |
#27
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State your opinion on COVID-19
On 3/28/2020 9:04 PM, jbeattie wrote:
I blew off a ride today to go on a walk with my wife. We saw lots of people and passed some within feet. We stopped at the Safeway and even stopped at a coffee shop in Multnomah Village, although you can't go inside. They were set up at the door -- bought some beans for home espresso. https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1901/...4b285de2_b.jpg There's a second coffee shop in town that was open as well -- but not the Blue Star Donuts (mega-expensive curated donuts) or the collection of other eateries. The weed shop was open, of course. When I say "Multnomah Village," I feel like I'm with Frank, back in Ohi-oh. It even has a visitor's guide, which is impressive for a wide spot in the road. https://tinyurl.com/vmoofse We usually walk the urban trails rather than the neighborhoods, but the 'hoods are fun now and then. I suspect that "village," like ours, was once rather separate from the next closest city, village, etc. but got swallowed by urban expansion. Regarding "the 'hoods": Our bike ride with a friend the other day was a bit unusual. We live toward the edge of the urban-suburban complex, so we head for country roads for most of our recreational rides. But when our friend showed up the other day, I proposed heading into the suburbs. We did over 25 miles cruising streets that we almost never explore. I sought out neighborhoods dating back to the 1920s, some of the areas first suburbs. Lots of homes with interesting and varied architecture. (I suspect the first to flee the cities had money to hire architects.) I also showed off several of the sneaky shortcuts I've discovered over the years. Many of them were probably originated by kids, giving back ways out of cul-de-sacs, into parks, through cemeteries, etc. It turned out to be an interesting ride. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#28
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State your opinion on COVID-19
with John B wrote:
On Sat, 28 Mar 2020 09:45:07 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Saturday, 28 March 2020 12:01:47 UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote: As usual, discussions here have devolved into childish name calling by some, demeaning published facts and data, quick political jabs, defensive changes of subjet, and "I know better than anyone" allusions. Things get obscured. *SKIP* Thailand has imposed some pretty draconian regulations to fight the virus and while I'm not sure whether it is a viable calculation their new cases number is 8% of total cases. The U.S. with apparently fewer restrictions has a new case total of about 14% of the total cases. At this rate the U.S. will exceed 200,000 cases in about 4 more days :-( For kernel's sake, can we start to think in ratios, plz? Let me reframe this. X -- grand total cases (not mentioned in the post by "John B"; I'm not going to figure out at how many it is/was (at time of posting by "John B")) x_t -- cases in Thailand (0.08X) x_u -- cases in USA (0.14X) p_t -- population in Thailland (694 of 100K people, estimate 2018) p_u -- population in USA (3087 of 100K people, estimate 2019) Now, r_t would be ( x_t X / p_t ) or ( 1.15e-4 X ), and r_u would be ( x_u X / p_u ) or ( 4.54e-5 X ). Now, it looks like USA is going 2.54 better then Thailand. But important question is -- at what timespan? plz fill in blanks and/or correct me if I'm wrong. -- Torvalds' goal for Linux is very simple: World Domination Stallman's goal for GNU is even simpler: Freedom |
#29
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State your opinion on COVID-19
On 3/28/2020 6:56 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
AMuzi wrote: On 3/28/2020 2:18 PM, Mark J. wrote: On 3/28/2020 10:09 AM, AMuzi wrote: On 3/28/2020 11:01 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote: As usual, discussions here have devolved into childish name calling by some, demeaning published facts and data, quick political jabs, defensive changes of subjet, and "I know better than anyone" allusions. Things get obscured. So I'd like to get a direct answer, especially from Tom and from Andrew. Tom: Do you really think COVID-19 is no worse than an ordinary seasonal flu? Andrew: Do you really think COVID-19 is no worse than an ordinary seasonal flu? Of course, this is a discussion group. Others are very welcome to give their opinion too. BTW, our bike club now has its first member in intensive care on a ventilator. I consider him a really good friend, one of the guys who (almost) always came on my night rides. He's much younger than me and has been a hell of a rider, a daily commuter, fast and high mileage. Up to here, yes. Death is not trivial to the fatality himself, but the numbers haven't supported panic so far. I will change my opinion when/if the numbers change [...] Sadly, give it a week or two. Cases are roughly quadrupling each week in the US [based on CDC reports]. Exponential growth doesn't catch the public eye when the absolute numbers are low, but those low numbers don't last long. We are solidly on track to eclipse the "regular-flu" numbers. Mark J. but having known people who died of pneumonia from influenza, my point was merely that it's the same death (and an unpleasant one at that) to fewer people. see also: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/images/about...nza-burden.png If influenza were unknown until this year, people would freak out at forty million infected and 50,000 Americans dead. If you want to do something useful and patriotic, do something about the even larger number of Americans who die annually by _hospital acquired infection_. That number is not getting smaller year over year- it's growing. Another danger is a mental incapacity caused by a political correctness infestation. From WMAL today: https://www.wmal.com/news/yes-we-lon...uldnt-anymore/ Headline: "Yes, we long have referred to disease outbreaks by geographic places. Here’s why we shouldn’t anymore" Main argument worthy of a failing grade in a high school logic class: "During the 2003 SARS outbreak, media coverage of the disease led to the stigmatization of Asian communities in countries such as Canada. It devastated Chinese-owned businesses, especially those located in Chinatowns." I looked for SARS on a map. Couldn't find it. Perhaps in time all this will pass, just as we no longer use "the French disease". Or “the Spanish Flu”, named after the one country that had the balls to admit it existed. Correct and well publicized. Wartime censorship applied to the 'civilized world' while Spain remained neutral with some of the very few free press organizations. Hence the name. Why doesn't anyone think 'Marburg' is racist? Same gruesome death as Ebola. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#30
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State your opinion on COVID-19
news18 wrote:
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 13:12:34 +0700, John B. wrote: It depends on the surface. For sars-Cov2, Cu about 4 hours to plastic for weeks. also depends on the mu-flora and wheather if gets consumed ' Ok, on a plastic surface it is viable for weeks. But what is Cu? and I did look... and came across 82 definitions, starting with Credit Union and ending with Coefficient of Utilization. Cu (from Latin: cuprum)is the symbol for copper. Cheers Or Christian Union, or Coming Unglued, or Celeron Unit, or Cardiac Unit, or... :-) Yes, any of those might have it too, but you wouldn't normally define them as a surface John, here's an airbus driver's ed test for you: http://avherald.com/h?article=4d1e782d You have fourty (40) seconds to find out, without looking at the comments, which one is the least important data piece among these four, A. 6.43 miles, B. 668 ft, C. 7 nanometers, or D. 2000 fpm. (Correct answer earns you one Former Flyer Mile with Thai Air.) |
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