safety in numbers? Fail

Paul Carmichael wrote:

On 27/05/12 19:30, Squashme escribió:

http://www.thisisstaffordshire.co.uk...ed-hospital-bi...

the url is broken.

http://www.thisisstaffordshire.co.uk...ail/story.html

On May 26, 1:47*pm, "Mrcheerful" wrote:

So they were turning right from a side road without ascertaining that the
road was clear, probably relying on force of numbers to try and coerce
people into giving way to them.

An unlikely assumption. Some people (usually slower riders that don't
normally ride on their own) just lose road sense and play follow the
leader. In a leisurely group (and with few exceptions, a group with a
73 year old woman would be leisurely) a good leader would usually
point out when they are crossing or joining a busy road. Remarkable
but so be it. A silly mistake, no ulterior motive.

On Sun, 27 May 2012 10:30:51 -0700, Squashme wrote:

On May 26, 1:47 pm, "Mrcheerful" wrote:
"A PENSIONER was last night being treated for serious head injuries she
suffered in a collision with a motorbike.

The female cyclist was taken to the Unviersity Hospital of North
Staffordshire by air ambulance following the smash on the A54 in
Somerford,
Congleton, at 11.25am yesterday.

The 73-year-old woman was in a group of cyclists which was exiting from
Moss
Lane on to the A54, travelling towards Congleton."

So they were turning right from a side road without ascertaining that
the
road was clear, probably relying on force of numbers to try and coerce
people into giving way to them. Give way lines and signs need to be
obeyed
by all classes of road user. Visibility is good in both directions.

My thoughts are with the motorcyclist.

http://www.thisisstaffordshire.co.uk...ed-hospital-bi...

Anybody know this road? Not much detail, but if visibility is good in
both directions, does any blame attach to the motorcyclist?

Of course. He was on a Harley.

On Sun, 27 May 2012 10:30:51 -0700 (PDT), Squashme
wrote:

The female cyclist was taken to the Unviersity Hospital of North
Staffordshire by air ambulance following the smash on the A54 in Somerford,
Congleton, at 11.25am yesterday.


Anybody know this road? Not much detail, but if visibility is good in
both directions, does any blame attach to the motorcyclist?

Not if he could spell "University" properly.
Shocking.

On May 28, 1:18*am, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
On Sun, 27 May 2012 10:30:51 -0700 (PDT), Squashme

wrote:
The female cyclist was taken to the Unviersity Hospital of North
Staffordshire by air ambulance following the smash on the A54 in Somerford,
Congleton, at 11.25am yesterday.

Anybody know this road? Not much detail, but if visibility is good in
both directions, does any blame attach to the motorcyclist?

Not if he could spell "University" properly.
Shocking.

That's the way the newspaper spelt it, so it must be right. Perhaps it
is regional dialect.

On Sun, 27 May 2012 10:30:51 -0700 (PDT), Squashme
wrote:


Anybody know this road? Not much detail, but if visibility is good in
both directions, does any blame attach to the motorcyclist?

http://goo.gl/maps/K5uO is the junction and the cyclists would have
been turning right towards Congleton. There usually isn't much
traffic on the A54 to the west of the M6. I wonder if the group of
cyclists were "considering themselves a single vehicle" as some seem
to take it upon themselves to do to keep the group together and the
motorcyclist assumed they were simply a bunch of individuals who would
give way as they were supposed to? By the time each realised what was
happening it was too late.

On May 28, 12:31*pm, Peter Parry wrote:
On Sun, 27 May 2012 10:30:51 -0700 (PDT), Squashme

wrote:
Anybody know this road? Not much detail, but if visibility is good in
both directions, does any blame attach to the motorcyclist?

http://goo.gl/maps/K5uOis the junction and the cyclists would have
been turning right towards Congleton. *There usually isn't much
traffic on the A54 to the west of the M6. *I wonder if the group of
cyclists were "considering themselves a single vehicle" as some seem
to take it upon themselves to do to keep the group together and the
motorcyclist assumed they were simply a bunch of individuals who would
give way as they were supposed to? *By the time each realised what was
happening it was too late.

Only a few seconds to do anything.
Should have broken up into smaller batches. A large group restricts
what any individual can do. I suppose sending scouts ahead to either
bend would be cumbersome. And how often would they have to do it on a
ride?

On Mon, 28 May 2012 06:08:17 -0700, Phil W Lee
wrote:

Squashme considered Sun, 27 May 2012 10:30:51
-0700 (PDT) the perfect time to write:


Anybody know this road? Not much detail, but if visibility is good in
both directions, does any blame attach to the motorcyclist?

I believe I've used it in the past, having checked on Google Earth and
viewed the junction on Streetview.
As a (former) motorcyclist and cyclist, I would say that legal speeds
on that road would be rare among motorcyclists (even those on
Harleys), and judgment of the speed of an approaching motorcyclist is
quite likely to be sub-optimal in a 73 y.o of any transport type or
gender.
So without additional information, it seems likely that there was some
fault on both sides.

Really? When the sign clearly says "GIVE WAY" and there's no evidence the
motorcycle was speeding?

In article , Thomas says...

On Mon, 28 May 2012 06:08:17 -0700, Phil W Lee
wrote:

Squashme considered Sun, 27 May 2012 10:30:51
-0700 (PDT) the perfect time to write:

Anybody know this road? Not much detail, but if visibility is good in
both directions, does any blame attach to the motorcyclist?

I believe I've used it in the past, having checked on Google Earth and
viewed the junction on Streetview.
As a (former) motorcyclist and cyclist, I would say that legal speeds
on that road would be rare among motorcyclists (even those on
Harleys), and judgment of the speed of an approaching motorcyclist is
quite likely to be sub-optimal in a 73 y.o of any transport type or
gender.
So without additional information, it seems likely that there was some
fault on both sides.

Really? When the sign clearly says "GIVE WAY" and there's no evidence the
motorcycle was speeding?

It is *always* the fault of the motorcyclist. Look at the case of the
motorcyclist who was taking a bend to the left, positioned in about the
same place as the driver of a car would be. A Lithuanian truck driver
crossed the white line and hit him, causing injuries severe enough for
his right leg to be amputated.

On appeal, the truck driver's QC argued that the motorcyclist could have
been safe if he had been riding in the centre of his lane, rather than
out by the white line. Lord Justice Richards stated: "A finding of
negligence in this case would, to my mind, be to impose an unacceptably
high standard on the driver."

This was heard in the Court Of Appeal, which means legal precedent has
been set and this case can be referred to in future hearings.

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-...urt-overturns-
riders-crash-compensation/20647.html

I'd expect you to ride (in the UK) on the same line that I would - on a
left hander, out by the line for maximum visibility around the bend and
on a right hander, near enough in the gutter for maximum forward view.
It's OK if you're a trucker, though, as you can now legally swerve all
over the road, skittling other road users left and right as it is just
too onerous to stay on the correct side of the road.

--

Pip: Keeper of the Cable Ties

Pip wrote:

I'd expect you to ride (in the UK) on the same line that I would - on
a left hander, out by the line for maximum visibility around the bend
and on a right hander, near enough in the gutter for maximum forward
view. It's OK if you're a trucker, though, as you can now legally
swerve all over the road, skittling other road users left and right
as it is just too onerous to stay on the correct side of the road.

Did you read up on the circumstances? The Beak didn't seem to be far off the
mark, unless we think all narrow roads with blind bends should be closed to
large traffic. It was wheels across the white line because the road was
narrow and the truck was not moving rapidly.

That said the biker failed the second test. Keep your ****ing mouth shut.

What didn't get mentioned was the ~30% of accidents, where blame accrues to
a truck or HGV, being a LHD vehicle. Wouldn't want to set a legal precedent
forcing a change of tractor units at ports.

--
Hog

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