A few months waxing chain

On Tuesday, December 18, 2018 at 1:55:55 PM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, December 18, 2018 at 3:14:35 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Tuesday, December 18, 2018 at 2:27:33 AM UTC+1, wrote:
On Sunday, December 16, 2018 at 5:50:22 PM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, December 16, 2018 at 3:20:48 PM UTC-8, news18 wrote:
On Sun, 16 Dec 2018 12:28:42 -0800, jbeattie wrote:


I do those three times a week. And them I'm not too good to ride with
the old and slow group. I did a ride before the big fires here where I
generated 340 watts for almost 10 miles. That may not be much around
here but it sure as hell is a great deal more than you loud mouthed
experts.

Me too, when I won the Cat 2 districts this year. Do you actually own a
power meter? Also, you need to tell us how long you were holding 340
watts. Distance doesn't tell us much.


Oh Jay, it was downhill, obviously.

BTW, I gave that number to my son
and told him it was a 74 year old recreational rider, and he said
"nope," not at 180-190lbs. He looks at power data day in and day out as
a job. https://stagescycling.com/us/support/

I think Tom shared with us that he is 180lbs, to which I say, kudos.. I'm about the same height and 15lbs more. But assuming 180lbs, that's about 82kg for about 4.15 watts/kg for 20 minute power, which places him solidly in Cat 2 -- at age 74. Scary. If I were him, I'd skip the whole return-to-high-tech thing and round up some sponsors for Masters Worlds. My brother was in Master Worlds DH in his 60s and couldn't knock out those kinds of watts, although his thing was going down hill.

I don't care about power since I'm not training for anything. Today, my power meter was "faster than one guy, slower than another." Everything hurt after a hard ski yesterday and too much Christmas cheer last night, but I managed to hang in for a nice rain ride on my made-in-USA HED Ardenne disc wheels which roll really well. Great mid-weight road and gravel wheels.

I came home and sprayed off the bike with a hose, which is SOP -- notwithstanding the hose-fear expressed on this NG.

-- Jay Beattie.

Wouldn't that be nice if I could always know when I'm going to be up? I was approaching an uphill and two people caught up with me - some guy who pretty obviously had just finished an organized century that I had entered but not attended and some other guy who had a Triple Crown windbreaker on.. The century guys was going pretty slow and I was going to ride him back in to the end. The Triple Crown guy you could tell had just put in 10 miles and pulled around us and shot up this 4% hill. That was pretty impolite in my book and I dropped it down a couple of cogs and passed him at 24 mph and then hit a section where the hill flattened and I took it up to 28 mph. I stopped at the top and he went passed without looking at me. I waited for the other guy and rode back in with him to make sure he was OK In several years I've only done that hill that fast twice.

And on Redwood Rd. which is 7% I would get ****ed at the front guys dropping everyone else and once in awhile I would let them get 200 or more yards and then run them down and beat them to the top. But the last time I tried that I could only catch them and ride in with them.

The 10K happened when I showed up at the starting point and we normally do a 1 1/2 miles back past my home and continue another 10 miles to the coffee stop. I had just changed stems and it started slipping just a short walk from my home. So I went over and got a different bike and took off after them hoping to catch them. But I had taken too long to get the bike and they had just gotten to the coffee stop when I got there. And they are dead slow on good days.

It was dead flat, into a reported 20 mph headwind and I set the timer on my speedo. Gribble's calculator actually said 340 watts but for a half of a mile I rode cross wind. So I took the estimation of 300 watts. I was holding a dead steady speed and the wind was steady. My idea had been to go as fast as I could without blowing up. And it worked but the ride home wasn't that much fun. Though down wind so was I.

Like I said Tom, 340 Watt or even 300 Watt is an awful lot. My reference is the FTP test I regurarly do with a power meter. In this example I managed an average of 260 Watt over 20 minutes.

https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/2778254288

The test means go as fast as you can for 20 minutes and that is not fun.. Your FTP is then 95% of your average power over that 20 minutes. In this case for me it was 247 Watt. I'm 62 years old and weigh 74 kg. After 20 minutes you must have blown up otherwise the you did not do it right. I know using a power meter that adding 40 Watts would be enormous. You must have more talent.

Lou

Tom did 10k at 21mph which is about 17 minutes and then 6k at let's say 13mph for warm-up and warm-down. That's another 17 minutes. He's 180lbs or 81.6K. So his 34 minute power is 340 watts or 4.16 watts per Kg. Let's (conservatively) up that .10 watts/Kg for 20 minute power. He's Cat 1. https://forums.mtbr.com/attachments/...ight-chart.png Pretty damned impressive for a 74 year old. Maybe I can still achieve my dream of being a Cat 1 because, you know, I'm getting so much faster as I grow older.

-- Jay Beattie.

As I said, this is only rarely when I can do this. I don't seem to respond to the training methods from manuals like Friel's. This leaves me exhausted all the time and probably lucky to make half that power. And then somehow once in awhile I'm rested and feel good. At those times I can put in some good performances.

Lately on Thursdays I ride about 22 miles in 2 hours with about 1100 feet of climbing with perhaps a 5% grade for 3 miles, an 8% grade for a half mile and rollers that are big ring (most or the time) for 10 of those miles. There is then a café that I stop at and rest and have a sandwich and coffee. The return trip is 26 miles and by then I'm pretty slow into the wind and back over the 800 ft climb back into town. This seems to be good for training.

It's been too cold to do the hard climbing ride since the climbing is hard enough that you sweat and the downhills steep enough that you really freeze.. The coffee stop is nice enough but the group always wants to go really fast because I'm doing 40 miles and they're doing 25. I'm climbing 3300 ft and they're at around 2200.


I do three hard rides a week and one easy ride. One of those hard rides I go very moderately and the other two I'm near the limit. After the time off because of the illness I have to stop two or three times climbing a local 9% 3 mile climb with several 12% sections. My altimeters all seem to be getting different readings but for awhile they all agreed.

I have a power meter on one bike but I don't know how much value to give it since it registers 800 watts on the climbs. After I get all of my bills paid off I'll get another type and try again.

On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 8:13:10 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Tuesday, December 18, 2018 at 1:55:55 PM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, December 18, 2018 at 3:14:35 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Tuesday, December 18, 2018 at 2:27:33 AM UTC+1, wrote:
On Sunday, December 16, 2018 at 5:50:22 PM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, December 16, 2018 at 3:20:48 PM UTC-8, news18 wrote:
On Sun, 16 Dec 2018 12:28:42 -0800, jbeattie wrote:


I do those three times a week. And them I'm not too good to ride with
the old and slow group. I did a ride before the big fires here where I
generated 340 watts for almost 10 miles. That may not be much around
here but it sure as hell is a great deal more than you loud mouthed
experts.

Me too, when I won the Cat 2 districts this year. Do you actually own a
power meter? Also, you need to tell us how long you were holding 340
watts. Distance doesn't tell us much.


Oh Jay, it was downhill, obviously.

BTW, I gave that number to my son
and told him it was a 74 year old recreational rider, and he said
"nope," not at 180-190lbs. He looks at power data day in and day out as
a job. https://stagescycling.com/us/support/

I think Tom shared with us that he is 180lbs, to which I say, kudos. I'm about the same height and 15lbs more. But assuming 180lbs, that's about 82kg for about 4.15 watts/kg for 20 minute power, which places him solidly in Cat 2 -- at age 74. Scary. If I were him, I'd skip the whole return-to-high-tech thing and round up some sponsors for Masters Worlds. My brother was in Master Worlds DH in his 60s and couldn't knock out those kinds of watts, although his thing was going down hill.

I don't care about power since I'm not training for anything. Today, my power meter was "faster than one guy, slower than another." Everything hurt after a hard ski yesterday and too much Christmas cheer last night, but I managed to hang in for a nice rain ride on my made-in-USA HED Ardenne disc wheels which roll really well. Great mid-weight road and gravel wheels.

I came home and sprayed off the bike with a hose, which is SOP -- notwithstanding the hose-fear expressed on this NG.

-- Jay Beattie.

Wouldn't that be nice if I could always know when I'm going to be up? I was approaching an uphill and two people caught up with me - some guy who pretty obviously had just finished an organized century that I had entered but not attended and some other guy who had a Triple Crown windbreaker on. The century guys was going pretty slow and I was going to ride him back in to the end. The Triple Crown guy you could tell had just put in 10 miles and pulled around us and shot up this 4% hill. That was pretty impolite in my book and I dropped it down a couple of cogs and passed him at 24 mph and then hit a section where the hill flattened and I took it up to 28 mph. I stopped at the top and he went passed without looking at me. I waited for the other guy and rode back in with him to make sure he was OK In several years I've only done that hill that fast twice.

And on Redwood Rd. which is 7% I would get ****ed at the front guys dropping everyone else and once in awhile I would let them get 200 or more yards and then run them down and beat them to the top. But the last time I tried that I could only catch them and ride in with them.

The 10K happened when I showed up at the starting point and we normally do a 1 1/2 miles back past my home and continue another 10 miles to the coffee stop. I had just changed stems and it started slipping just a short walk from my home. So I went over and got a different bike and took off after them hoping to catch them. But I had taken too long to get the bike and they had just gotten to the coffee stop when I got there. And they are dead slow on good days.

It was dead flat, into a reported 20 mph headwind and I set the timer on my speedo. Gribble's calculator actually said 340 watts but for a half of a mile I rode cross wind. So I took the estimation of 300 watts. I was holding a dead steady speed and the wind was steady. My idea had been to go as fast as I could without blowing up. And it worked but the ride home wasn't that much fun. Though down wind so was I.

Like I said Tom, 340 Watt or even 300 Watt is an awful lot. My reference is the FTP test I regurarly do with a power meter. In this example I managed an average of 260 Watt over 20 minutes.

https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/2778254288

The test means go as fast as you can for 20 minutes and that is not fun. Your FTP is then 95% of your average power over that 20 minutes. In this case for me it was 247 Watt. I'm 62 years old and weigh 74 kg. After 20 minutes you must have blown up otherwise the you did not do it right. I know using a power meter that adding 40 Watts would be enormous. You must have more talent.

Lou

Tom did 10k at 21mph which is about 17 minutes and then 6k at let's say 13mph for warm-up and warm-down. That's another 17 minutes. He's 180lbs or 81.6K. So his 34 minute power is 340 watts or 4.16 watts per Kg. Let's (conservatively) up that .10 watts/Kg for 20 minute power. He's Cat 1. https://forums.mtbr.com/attachments/...ight-chart.png Pretty damned impressive for a 74 year old. Maybe I can still achieve my dream of being a Cat 1 because, you know, I'm getting so much faster as I grow older.

-- Jay Beattie.

As I said, this is only rarely when I can do this. I don't seem to respond to the training methods from manuals like Friel's. This leaves me exhausted all the time and probably lucky to make half that power. And then somehow once in awhile I'm rested and feel good. At those times I can put in some good performances.

Lately on Thursdays I ride about 22 miles in 2 hours with about 1100 feet of climbing with perhaps a 5% grade for 3 miles, an 8% grade for a half mile and rollers that are big ring (most or the time) for 10 of those miles. There is then a café that I stop at and rest and have a sandwich and coffee. The return trip is 26 miles and by then I'm pretty slow into the wind and back over the 800 ft climb back into town. This seems to be good for training.

It's been too cold to do the hard climbing ride since the climbing is hard enough that you sweat and the downhills steep enough that you really freeze. The coffee stop is nice enough but the group always wants to go really fast because I'm doing 40 miles and they're doing 25. I'm climbing 3300 ft and they're at around 2200.


I do three hard rides a week and one easy ride. One of those hard rides I go very moderately and the other two I'm near the limit. After the time off because of the illness I have to stop two or three times climbing a local 9% 3 mile climb with several 12% sections. My altimeters all seem to be getting different readings but for awhile they all agreed.

I have a power meter on one bike but I don't know how much value to give it since it registers 800 watts on the climbs. After I get all of my bills paid off I'll get another type and try again.

Stages. Its the best (plug for my son's employer). https://stagescycling.com/us/?gclid=... AEgJ13_D_BwE Excellent customer service here in Portland. Product made in Boulder, Co. I'm told that pedals are coming soon or are in the works.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 8:27:10 AM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 8:13:10 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Tuesday, December 18, 2018 at 1:55:55 PM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, December 18, 2018 at 3:14:35 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Tuesday, December 18, 2018 at 2:27:33 AM UTC+1, wrote:
On Sunday, December 16, 2018 at 5:50:22 PM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, December 16, 2018 at 3:20:48 PM UTC-8, news18 wrote:
On Sun, 16 Dec 2018 12:28:42 -0800, jbeattie wrote:


I do those three times a week. And them I'm not too good to ride with
the old and slow group. I did a ride before the big fires here where I
generated 340 watts for almost 10 miles. That may not be much around
here but it sure as hell is a great deal more than you loud mouthed
experts.

Me too, when I won the Cat 2 districts this year. Do you actually own a
power meter? Also, you need to tell us how long you were holding 340
watts. Distance doesn't tell us much.


Oh Jay, it was downhill, obviously.

BTW, I gave that number to my son
and told him it was a 74 year old recreational rider, and he said
"nope," not at 180-190lbs. He looks at power data day in and day out as
a job. https://stagescycling.com/us/support/

I think Tom shared with us that he is 180lbs, to which I say, kudos. I'm about the same height and 15lbs more. But assuming 180lbs, that's about 82kg for about 4.15 watts/kg for 20 minute power, which places him solidly in Cat 2 -- at age 74. Scary. If I were him, I'd skip the whole return-to-high-tech thing and round up some sponsors for Masters Worlds. My brother was in Master Worlds DH in his 60s and couldn't knock out those kinds of watts, although his thing was going down hill.

I don't care about power since I'm not training for anything. Today, my power meter was "faster than one guy, slower than another." Everything hurt after a hard ski yesterday and too much Christmas cheer last night, but I managed to hang in for a nice rain ride on my made-in-USA HED Ardenne disc wheels which roll really well. Great mid-weight road and gravel wheels.

I came home and sprayed off the bike with a hose, which is SOP -- notwithstanding the hose-fear expressed on this NG.

-- Jay Beattie.

Wouldn't that be nice if I could always know when I'm going to be up? I was approaching an uphill and two people caught up with me - some guy who pretty obviously had just finished an organized century that I had entered but not attended and some other guy who had a Triple Crown windbreaker on. The century guys was going pretty slow and I was going to ride him back in to the end. The Triple Crown guy you could tell had just put in 10 miles and pulled around us and shot up this 4% hill. That was pretty impolite in my book and I dropped it down a couple of cogs and passed him at 24 mph and then hit a section where the hill flattened and I took it up to 28 mph.. I stopped at the top and he went passed without looking at me. I waited for the other guy and rode back in with him to make sure he was OK In several years I've only done that hill that fast twice.

And on Redwood Rd. which is 7% I would get ****ed at the front guys dropping everyone else and once in awhile I would let them get 200 or more yards and then run them down and beat them to the top. But the last time I tried that I could only catch them and ride in with them.

The 10K happened when I showed up at the starting point and we normally do a 1 1/2 miles back past my home and continue another 10 miles to the coffee stop. I had just changed stems and it started slipping just a short walk from my home. So I went over and got a different bike and took off after them hoping to catch them. But I had taken too long to get the bike and they had just gotten to the coffee stop when I got there. And they are dead slow on good days.

It was dead flat, into a reported 20 mph headwind and I set the timer on my speedo. Gribble's calculator actually said 340 watts but for a half of a mile I rode cross wind. So I took the estimation of 300 watts. I was holding a dead steady speed and the wind was steady. My idea had been to go as fast as I could without blowing up. And it worked but the ride home wasn't that much fun. Though down wind so was I.

Like I said Tom, 340 Watt or even 300 Watt is an awful lot. My reference is the FTP test I regurarly do with a power meter. In this example I managed an average of 260 Watt over 20 minutes.

https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/2778254288

The test means go as fast as you can for 20 minutes and that is not fun. Your FTP is then 95% of your average power over that 20 minutes. In this case for me it was 247 Watt. I'm 62 years old and weigh 74 kg. After 20 minutes you must have blown up otherwise the you did not do it right. I know using a power meter that adding 40 Watts would be enormous. You must have more talent.

Lou

Tom did 10k at 21mph which is about 17 minutes and then 6k at let's say 13mph for warm-up and warm-down. That's another 17 minutes. He's 180lbs or 81.6K. So his 34 minute power is 340 watts or 4.16 watts per Kg. Let's (conservatively) up that .10 watts/Kg for 20 minute power. He's Cat 1. https://forums.mtbr.com/attachments/...ight-chart.png Pretty damned impressive for a 74 year old. Maybe I can still achieve my dream of being a Cat 1 because, you know, I'm getting so much faster as I grow older.

-- Jay Beattie.

As I said, this is only rarely when I can do this. I don't seem to respond to the training methods from manuals like Friel's. This leaves me exhausted all the time and probably lucky to make half that power. And then somehow once in awhile I'm rested and feel good. At those times I can put in some good performances.

Lately on Thursdays I ride about 22 miles in 2 hours with about 1100 feet of climbing with perhaps a 5% grade for 3 miles, an 8% grade for a half mile and rollers that are big ring (most or the time) for 10 of those miles.. There is then a café that I stop at and rest and have a sandwich and coffee. The return trip is 26 miles and by then I'm pretty slow into the wind and back over the 800 ft climb back into town. This seems to be good for training.

It's been too cold to do the hard climbing ride since the climbing is hard enough that you sweat and the downhills steep enough that you really freeze. The coffee stop is nice enough but the group always wants to go really fast because I'm doing 40 miles and they're doing 25. I'm climbing 3300 ft and they're at around 2200.


I do three hard rides a week and one easy ride. One of those hard rides I go very moderately and the other two I'm near the limit. After the time off because of the illness I have to stop two or three times climbing a local 9% 3 mile climb with several 12% sections. My altimeters all seem to be getting different readings but for awhile they all agreed.

I have a power meter on one bike but I don't know how much value to give it since it registers 800 watts on the climbs. After I get all of my bills paid off I'll get another type and try again.

Stages. Its the best (plug for my son's employer). https://stagescycling..com/us/?gclid... AEgJ13_D_BwE Excellent customer service here in Portland. Product made in Boulder, Co. I'm told that pedals are coming soon or are in the works.

-- Jay Beattie.

I sat around trying to figure out a direct method of measuring power output.. It turns out to be quite simple theoretically but a little more complex to actually find the components to do so. The things you need to know:

1. Weight of Bike and Rider
2. frontal area
3. aerodynamic drag
4, grade
5. speed
6. acceleration

I got the WattZit and am not particularly happy with it and would not recommend it because it is still too crude. But the PowerPod appears to be the same thing two generations improved. Both of these read direct power. I tried to communicate with WattZit and suggesting a means to more accurately approximate frontal area and drag but he wasn't interested. PowerPod already uses the same method I suggested. If you like you can add a correction factor for the additional power generated to get the recorded power to the ground but I think that is too small to worry about. Bearing and chain loses are small.

On 20/12/18 3:38 am, wrote:
On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 8:27:10 AM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 8:13:10 AM UTC-8,
wrote:


I have a power meter on one bike but I don't know how much value
to give it since it registers 800 watts on the climbs. After I
get all of my bills paid off I'll get another type and try
again.

Do you upload your rides to Strava? If so, you can analyse your riding
up a hill, and so long as your weight and bike weight are entered close
enough to reality and there wasn't a strong wind, the Strava power graph
is probably fairly accurate.

I'm sure I could manage 800W for a short time, but most climbs it is
more like 300W for me.


Stages. Its the best (plug for my son's employer).
https://stagescycling.com/us/?gclid=... AEgJ13_D_BwE
Excellent customer service here in Portland. Product made in
Boulder, Co. I'm told that pedals are coming soon or are in the
works.


I looked at the prices and thought "Nah".


I sat around trying to figure out a direct method of measuring power
output. It turns out to be quite simple theoretically but a little
more complex to actually find the components to do so. The things you
need to know:

1. Weight of Bike and Rider 2. frontal area 3. aerodynamic drag 4,
grade 5. speed 6. acceleration

I got the WattZit and am not particularly happy with it and would not
recommend it because it is still too crude. But the PowerPod appears
to be the same thing two generations improved. Both of these read
direct power. I tried to communicate with WattZit and suggesting a
means to more accurately approximate frontal area and drag but he
wasn't interested. PowerPod already uses the same method I suggested.
If you like you can add a correction factor for the additional power
generated to get the recorded power to the ground but I think that is
too small to worry about. Bearing and chain loses are small.



The iBike Newton does the maths & physics of what you theorise, but it
isn't perfect according to the reviews I've read.

https://cyclingtips.com/2013/09/ibik...-meter-review/

--
JS

On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 6:42:50 PM UTC-8, James wrote:
On 20/12/18 3:38 am, wrote:
On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 8:27:10 AM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 8:13:10 AM UTC-8,
wrote:


I have a power meter on one bike but I don't know how much value
to give it since it registers 800 watts on the climbs. After I
get all of my bills paid off I'll get another type and try
again.

Do you upload your rides to Strava? If so, you can analyse your riding
up a hill, and so long as your weight and bike weight are entered close
enough to reality and there wasn't a strong wind, the Strava power graph
is probably fairly accurate.

I'm sure I could manage 800W for a short time, but most climbs it is
more like 300W for me.


Stages. Its the best (plug for my son's employer).
https://stagescycling.com/us/?gclid=... AEgJ13_D_BwE
Excellent customer service here in Portland. Product made in
Boulder, Co. I'm told that pedals are coming soon or are in the
works.


I looked at the prices and thought "Nah".


I sat around trying to figure out a direct method of measuring power
output. It turns out to be quite simple theoretically but a little
more complex to actually find the components to do so. The things you
need to know:

1. Weight of Bike and Rider 2. frontal area 3. aerodynamic drag 4,
grade 5. speed 6. acceleration

I got the WattZit and am not particularly happy with it and would not
recommend it because it is still too crude. But the PowerPod appears
to be the same thing two generations improved. Both of these read
direct power. I tried to communicate with WattZit and suggesting a
means to more accurately approximate frontal area and drag but he
wasn't interested. PowerPod already uses the same method I suggested.
If you like you can add a correction factor for the additional power
generated to get the recorded power to the ground but I think that is
too small to worry about. Bearing and chain loses are small.



The iBike Newton does the maths & physics of what you theorise, but it
isn't perfect according to the reviews I've read.

https://cyclingtips.com/2013/09/ibik...-meter-review/

That's a power estimator. If you want a power meter, you have to pay. I don't care about power, but those who do get power meters. My son works for Stages, so I'm plugging that product. Good enough for Chris Froome.
https://www.roadbikereview.com/revie.../froome-stages

-- Jay Beattie.

On 20/12/18 4:19 pm, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 6:42:50 PM UTC-8, James wrote:

The iBike Newton does the maths & physics of what you theorise, but
it isn't perfect according to the reviews I've read.

https://cyclingtips.com/2013/09/ibik...-meter-review/

That's a power estimator. If you want a power meter, you have to
pay.

For a start, the iBike Newton measures a number of inputs and
*calculates* the input power according to the laws of physics. It does
measure power, just not in the same way. And there are others like it,
mentioned here;
https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/09/...6-edition.html

The Stages device, like most other power meters, uses strain gauges
(resistors) that detect elastic deformation in a part of the drive train
that is expected to have a predictable force/strain relationship, and
from that and other measured inputs like crank position, for example,
can calculate the input power.

Make no mistake, the Stages device does not measure power directly, and
is not infallible. The electronics are not perfect and even if the
device is calibrated in the beginning, it will not remain calibrated for
ever. For this reason people often compare power meters to try to find
the most accurate and stable.

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/l...-meters-330322

I don't care about power, but those who do get power meters.

I don't care what other people do. Tom wondered about measuring the
external forces and such to calculate the input power. That is
precisely what the iBike Newton device does, which is why I included a
link to it, for his interest.

My son works for Stages, so I'm plugging that product.

I knew that already.

Good enough
for Chris Froome.
https://www.roadbikereview.com/revie.../froome-stages


Again, I don't care what other people do. I make up my own mind on
these sorts of things.

And Chris Froome is the least of my interests - except that I hope the
TdF organisers would listen to me and include a dozen stages where it is
fairly flat and there is a good chance of strong cross winds. That
would fix the spider and others like him!
https://michaelvalenti.com/the-oddit...-chris-froome/

--
JS

On 20/12/18 3:38 am, wrote:


I sat around trying to figure out a direct method of measuring power
output. It turns out to be quite simple theoretically but a little
more complex to actually find the components to do so. The things you
need to know:

1. Weight of Bike and Rider 2. frontal area 3. aerodynamic drag 4,
grade 5. speed 6. acceleration

I got the WattZit and am not particularly happy with it and would not
recommend it because it is still too crude. But the PowerPod appears
to be the same thing two generations improved. Both of these read
direct power. I tried to communicate with WattZit and suggesting a
means to more accurately approximate frontal area and drag but he
wasn't interested. PowerPod already uses the same method I suggested.
If you like you can add a correction factor for the additional power
generated to get the recorded power to the ground but I think that is
too small to worry about. Bearing and chain loses are small.



Tom might also be most interested in this comparison of power meters,
including the type he has described above.

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/03/...th-review.html

--
JS

On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 10:04:58 PM UTC-8, James wrote:
On 20/12/18 4:19 pm, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 6:42:50 PM UTC-8, James wrote:

The iBike Newton does the maths & physics of what you theorise, but
it isn't perfect according to the reviews I've read.

https://cyclingtips.com/2013/09/ibik...-meter-review/

That's a power estimator. If you want a power meter, you have to
pay.

For a start, the iBike Newton measures a number of inputs and
*calculates* the input power according to the laws of physics. It does
measure power, just not in the same way. And there are others like it,
mentioned here;
https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/09/...-edition..html

The Stages device, like most other power meters, uses strain gauges
(resistors) that detect elastic deformation in a part of the drive train
that is expected to have a predictable force/strain relationship, and
from that and other measured inputs like crank position, for example,
can calculate the input power.

Make no mistake, the Stages device does not measure power directly, and
is not infallible. The electronics are not perfect and even if the
device is calibrated in the beginning, it will not remain calibrated for
ever. For this reason people often compare power meters to try to find
the most accurate and stable.

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/l...-meters-330322

Yes, but a meter calculating power based on wind speed and gradient is useless for indoor training and unreliable outdoors. https://www.bikeradar.com/us/road/ge...wton-15-49649/ You get what you pay for. Personally, I wouldn't pay for any of them since I'm not training for anything.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Thursday, December 20, 2018 at 6:29:43 PM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 10:04:58 PM UTC-8, James wrote:
On 20/12/18 4:19 pm, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 6:42:50 PM UTC-8, James wrote:

The iBike Newton does the maths & physics of what you theorise, but
it isn't perfect according to the reviews I've read.

https://cyclingtips.com/2013/09/ibik...-meter-review/

That's a power estimator. If you want a power meter, you have to
pay.

For a start, the iBike Newton measures a number of inputs and
*calculates* the input power according to the laws of physics. It does
measure power, just not in the same way. And there are others like it,
mentioned here;
https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/09/...6-edition.html

The Stages device, like most other power meters, uses strain gauges
(resistors) that detect elastic deformation in a part of the drive train
that is expected to have a predictable force/strain relationship, and
from that and other measured inputs like crank position, for example,
can calculate the input power.

Make no mistake, the Stages device does not measure power directly, and
is not infallible. The electronics are not perfect and even if the
device is calibrated in the beginning, it will not remain calibrated for
ever. For this reason people often compare power meters to try to find
the most accurate and stable.

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/l...-meters-330322

Yes, but a meter calculating power based on wind speed and gradient is useless for indoor training and unreliable outdoors. https://www.bikeradar.com/us/road/ge...wton-15-49649/ You get what you pay for. Personally, I wouldn't pay for any of them since I'm not training for anything.

-- Jay Beattie.

You can argue about the need for a powermeter or if you want to spend the money but buying a device that measures windspeed and then have to estimate frontal area, rolling resistance etc etc to calculate power just to save money I don't get. Either you use a decent powermeter or just rely on the numbers Strava spit out. I can tell you that it makes quite a difference whether your average power is 200 Watt or 220 Watt during a 2 -3 hour ride.

Lou

On 21/12/18 4:29 am, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 10:04:58 PM UTC-8, James wrote:
On 20/12/18 4:19 pm, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 6:42:50 PM UTC-8, James
wrote:

The iBike Newton does the maths & physics of what you theorise,
but it isn't perfect according to the reviews I've read.

https://cyclingtips.com/2013/09/ibik...-meter-review/



That's a power estimator. If you want a power meter, you have to
pay.

For a start, the iBike Newton measures a number of inputs and
*calculates* the input power according to the laws of physics. It
does measure power, just not in the same way. And there are others
like it, mentioned here;
https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/09/...6-edition.html



The Stages device, like most other power meters, uses strain gauges
(resistors) that detect elastic deformation in a part of the drive
train that is expected to have a predictable force/strain
relationship, and from that and other measured inputs like crank
position, for example, can calculate the input power.

Make no mistake, the Stages device does not measure power directly,
and is not infallible. The electronics are not perfect and even if
the device is calibrated in the beginning, it will not remain
calibrated for ever. For this reason people often compare power
meters to try to find the most accurate and stable.

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/l...-meters-330322


Yes, but a meter calculating power based on wind speed and gradient
is useless for indoor training and unreliable outdoors.

That depends on your indoor setup. On this inclined cycling mill, it
would work just fine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVxGFOb1KTY

And strain gauge power meters are not always reliable either. I rode
with a mate on Saturday who was bitterly disappointed by his power meter
(attached to the cranks), because he said it came with no instructions,
the company wouldn't answer questions, and it stopped and started
working randomly.


https://www.bikeradar.com/us/road/ge...wton-15-49649/
You get what you pay for.

And sometimes less is best. By keeping the measurement system more
simple, it is less prone to failure. Not needing to superglue a set of
strain gauges to each crank is a plus in my opinion.

--
JS