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Reducing speed to 20mph ‘created more deaths than injuries’ but council can’t afford to scrap them



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 18th 17, 10:59 AM posted to uk.rec.driving,uk.rec.cycling,uk.legal
Bod[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,516
Default Reducing speed to 20mph ‘created more deaths than injuries’ but council can’t afford to scrap them

On 18/12/2017 09:41, Bod wrote:
A council has said that 20mph zones recently introduced in its area will
stay despite a rise in the number of deaths and injuries.

Â*Bath and North East Somerset Council spent £871,000 bringing in the 13
new speed zones just 12 months ago. Woman openly admits she loves her
dog more than her only child But one year on, a report has found that
the rate of people killed or seriously injured has gone up in seven out
of the 13 new 20mph zones. The report, published in May 2017 by Bath and
North East Somerset Council, says this is a national trend.

Â*The council suggests people are ‘less diligent’ when walking and
crossing roads within the zones, because they think they are safer.
Deputy council leader Councillor Patrick Anketell-Jones has admitted
there simply isn’t the money available to reverse the 20mph zones.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/12/18/reduci...8/?ito=cbshare


The Council said "it would cost £800,000 to remove the signs"
That's a ridiculous amount!

--
Bod
  #2  
Old December 18th 17, 11:38 AM posted to uk.rec.driving,uk.rec.cycling,uk.legal
Ian Jackson[_7_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10
Default Reducing speed to 20mph ‘created more deaths than injuries’ but council can’t afford to scrap them

In message , Bod
writes
On 18/12/2017 09:41, Bod wrote:
A council has said that 20mph zones recently introduced in its area
will stay despite a rise in the number of deaths and injuries.
Â*Bath and North East Somerset Council spent £871,000 bringing in
the 13 new speed zones just 12 months ago. Woman openly admits she
loves her dog more than her only child But one year on, a report has
found that the rate of people killed or seriously injured has gone up
in seven out of the 13 new 20mph zones. The report, published in May
2017 by Bath and North East Somerset Council, says this is a national trend.
Â*The council suggests people are ‘less diligent’ when walking
and crossing roads within the zones, because they think they are
safer. Deputy council leader Councillor Patrick Anketell-Jones has
admitted there simply isn’t the money available to reverse the 20mph zones.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/12/18/reduci...d-deaths-injur
ies-council-cant-afford-scrap-7167628/?ito=cbshare

The Council said "it would cost £800,000 to remove the signs"
That's a ridiculous amount!

Surely there are a couple of Poles or Romanians who will do the job for
a tiny fraction of £800,000?
--
Ian
  #3  
Old December 18th 17, 11:42 AM posted to uk.rec.driving,uk.rec.cycling,uk.legal
Bod[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,516
Default Reducing speed to 20mph ‘created more deaths than injuries’ but council can’t afford to scrap them

On 18/12/2017 10:38, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Bod
writes
On 18/12/2017 09:41, Bod wrote:
A council has said that 20mph zones recently introduced in its area
willÂ* stay despite a rise in the number of deaths and injuries.
Â* Â*Bath and North East Somerset Council spent £871,000 bringing in
the 13Â* new speed zones just 12 months ago. Woman openly admits she
loves herÂ* dog more than her only child But one year on, a report has
found thatÂ* the rate of people killed or seriously injured has gone
up in seven outÂ* of the 13 new 20mph zones. The report, published in
May 2017 by Bath andÂ* North East Somerset Council, says this is a
national trend.
Â* Â*The council suggests people are ‘less diligent’ when walking and
crossing roads within the zones, because they think they are safer.
Deputy council leader Councillor Patrick Anketell-Jones has admitted
there simply isn’t the money available to reverse the 20mph zones.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/12/18/reduci...d-deaths-injur
ies-council-cant-afford-scrap-7167628/?ito=cbshare

The Council said "it would cost £800,000 to remove the signs"
That's a ridiculous amount!

Surely there are a couple of Poles or Romanians who will do the job for
a tiny fraction of £800,000?

A lot of truth in your answer.

--
Bod
  #4  
Old December 18th 17, 08:05 PM posted to uk.rec.driving,uk.rec.cycling,uk.legal
soup[_8_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 164
Default Reducing speed to 20mph ‘created more deaths than injuries’ but council can’t afford to scrap them

On 18/12/2017 10:38, Ian Jackson wrote:
Bod wrote
Bod wrote:
A council has said that 20mph zones recently introduced in its area
willÂ* stay despite a rise in the number of deaths and injuries.
http://metro.co.uk/2017/12/18/reduci...d-deaths-injur
ies-council-cant-afford-scrap-7167628/?ito=cbshare


The Council said "it would cost £800,000 to remove the signs"
That's a ridiculous amount!


Surely there are a couple of Poles or Romanians who will do the job for
a tiny fraction of £800,000?



Sorry, has to be done.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8dB4YnLSsE
  #5  
Old December 18th 17, 03:03 PM posted to uk.rec.driving,uk.rec.cycling,uk.legal
Brian Reay
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10
Default Reducing speed to 20mph ‘created more deaths than injuries’ but council can’t afford to scrap them

On 18/12/2017 09:59, Bod wrote:
On 18/12/2017 09:41, Bod wrote:
A council has said that 20mph zones recently introduced in its area
will stay despite a rise in the number of deaths and injuries.

Â*Â*Bath and North East Somerset Council spent £871,000 bringing in the
13 new speed zones just 12 months ago. Woman openly admits she loves
her dog more than her only child But one year on, a report has found
that the rate of people killed or seriously injured has gone up in
seven out of the 13 new 20mph zones. The report, published in May 2017
by Bath and North East Somerset Council, says this is a national trend.

Â*Â*The council suggests people are ‘less diligent’ when walking and
crossing roads within the zones, because they think they are safer.
Deputy council leader Councillor Patrick Anketell-Jones has admitted
there simply isn’t the money available to reverse the 20mph zones.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/12/18/reduci...8/?ito=cbshare


The Council said "it would cost £800,000 to remove the signs"
That's a ridiculous amount!


The findings won't stop 'pressure groups' demanding more such zones or
councils introducing them- leading to more unnecessary injuries and deaths.

Obviously there are instances of bad driving- including of course
driving under the influence etc.- and no one is suggesting they
shouldn't be dealt with. However, introducing measures which are not
only known to fail but be harmful is more than ridiculous.
  #6  
Old December 19th 17, 10:25 AM posted to uk.rec.driving,uk.rec.cycling,uk.legal
Handsome Jack
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default Reducing speed to 20mph created more deaths than injuries

Brian Reay posted
On 18/12/2017 09:59, Bod wrote:
On 18/12/2017 09:41, Bod wrote:
A council has said that 20mph zones recently introduced in its area
will stay despite a rise in the number of deaths and injuries.

Â*Â*Bath and North East Somerset Council spent £871,000 bringing in
the 13 new speed zones just 12 months ago. Woman openly admits she
loves her dog more than her only child But one year on, a report has
found that the rate of people killed or seriously injured has gone
up in seven out of the 13 new 20mph zones. The report, published in
May 2017 by Bath and North East Somerset Council, says this is a national trend.


What a pity the report doesn't cite the actual numbers of accidents.
Perhaps they are so insignificant that no inferences can be drawn.
Perhaps in the wards where accidents increased, they increased by only
one each, while in the ward where they decreased, they decreased by 10
each.

Perhaps the annual variations in accident numbers were large *before*
the 20mph limits were introduced, perhaps much larger than the
variations after introduction. Which would suggest that several more
years of data are needed.

Â*Â*The council suggests people are ‘less diligent’ when walking
and crossing roads within the zones, because they think they are
safer. Deputy council leader Councillor Patrick Anketell-Jones has
admitted there simply isn’t the money available to reverse the 20mph zones.


http://metro.co.uk/2017/12/18/reduci...ed-deaths-inju
ries-council-cant-afford-scrap-7167628/?ito=cbshare


--
Jack
  #7  
Old December 19th 17, 12:55 PM posted to uk.rec.driving,uk.rec.cycling,uk.legal
TMS320
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,875
Default Reducing speed to 20mph created more deaths than injuries

On 19/12/17 09:25, Handsome Jack wrote:
Brian Reay posted
On 18/12/2017 09:59, Bod wrote:
On 18/12/2017 09:41, Bod wrote:
A council has said that 20mph zones recently introduced in its area
will stay despite a rise in the number of deaths and injuries.

Â*Â*Bath and North East Somerset Council spent £871,000 bringing in
theÂ* 13 new speed zones just 12 months ago. Woman openly admits she
lovesÂ* her dog more than her only child But one year on, a report
has foundÂ* that the rate of people killed or seriously injured has
gone up inÂ* seven out of the 13 new 20mph zones. The report,
published in May 2017Â* by Bath and North East Somerset Council, says
this is a national trend.



What a pity the report doesn't cite the actual numbers of accidents.
Perhaps they are so insignificant that no inferences can be drawn.
Perhaps in the wards where accidents increased, they increased by only
one each, while in the ward where they decreased, they decreased by 10
each.

Perhaps the annual variations in accident numbers were large *before*
the 20mph limits were introduced, perhaps much larger than the
variations after introduction. Which would suggest that several more
years of data are needed.


Quite. If the death rate was so high that it is possible to notice a
change just one year after the alterations, it seems that they had a
much bigger problem to solve than putting in 20 limits.

Even if they can find something statistically significant after just a
year, perhaps it is because it takes time for people to adjust to the
changes. For instance, perhaps they find their old crossing points are
no longer convenient or optimum and they have to find new ones.

But is 20mph the only change that has been introduced? How about changes
outside the zones that have moved traffic into them? Light controlled
crossings, perhaps? - these encourage risk taking amongst people that
don't want to stand and wait.

But if the changes make people *feel* safer to be out and about, then in
one respect, it must be considered a success. Residential roads that
feel intimidating can't be a valid safety measure.

  #8  
Old December 18th 17, 06:36 PM posted to uk.rec.driving,uk.rec.cycling,uk.legal
Nightjar
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15
Default Reducing speed to 20mph ‘created more deaths than injuries’ but council can’t afford to scrap them

On 18-Dec-17 9:59 AM, Bod wrote:
On 18/12/2017 09:41, Bod wrote:
A council has said that 20mph zones recently introduced in its area
will stay despite a rise in the number of deaths and injuries.

Â*Â*Bath and North East Somerset Council spent £871,000 bringing in the
13 new speed zones just 12 months ago. Woman openly admits she loves
her dog more than her only child But one year on, a report has found
that the rate of people killed or seriously injured has gone up in
seven out of the 13 new 20mph zones. The report, published in May 2017
by Bath and North East Somerset Council, says this is a national trend.

Â*Â*The council suggests people are ‘less diligent’ when walking and
crossing roads within the zones, because they think they are safer.
Deputy council leader Councillor Patrick Anketell-Jones has admitted
there simply isn’t the money available to reverse the 20mph zones.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/12/18/reduci...8/?ito=cbshare


The Council said "it would cost £800,000 to remove the signs"
That's a ridiculous amount!


They are talking of 20mph zones. A 20mph speed limit can be reversed
simply by issuing the necessary traffic order and removing the signs. A
20mph zone has to be designed to be self-enforcing, which means lots of
traffic calming measures. Those would also need to be removed and the
roads restored to their former condition to reverse a 20mph zone.

--
--

Colin Bignell
  #9  
Old December 18th 17, 07:02 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Simon Jester
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,727
Default Reducing speed to 20mph ‘created more deaths than injuries’ but council can’t afford to scrap them

On Monday, December 18, 2017 at 5:36:34 PM UTC, Nightjar wrote:
On 18-Dec-17 9:59 AM, Bod wrote:
On 18/12/2017 09:41, Bod wrote:
A council has said that 20mph zones recently introduced in its area
will stay despite a rise in the number of deaths and injuries.

Â*Â*Bath and North East Somerset Council spent £871,000 bringing in the
13 new speed zones just 12 months ago. Woman openly admits she loves
her dog more than her only child But one year on, a report has found
that the rate of people killed or seriously injured has gone up in
seven out of the 13 new 20mph zones. The report, published in May 2017
by Bath and North East Somerset Council, says this is a national trend..

Â*Â*The council suggests people are ‘less diligent’ when walking and
crossing roads within the zones, because they think they are safer.
Deputy council leader Councillor Patrick Anketell-Jones has admitted
there simply isn’t the money available to reverse the 20mph zones.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/12/18/reduci...8/?ito=cbshare


The Council said "it would cost £800,000 to remove the signs"
That's a ridiculous amount!


They are talking of 20mph zones. A 20mph speed limit can be reversed
simply by issuing the necessary traffic order and removing the signs. A
20mph zone has to be designed to be self-enforcing, which means lots of
traffic calming measures. Those would also need to be removed and the
roads restored to their former condition to reverse a 20mph zone.

--
--

Colin Bignell


Holy Cow, talk about a blast from the past.
Have you heard anything from Huge Davies or Steve Firth recently?

  #10  
Old December 18th 17, 07:12 PM posted to uk.rec.driving,uk.rec.cycling,uk.legal
tim...
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7
Default Reducing speed to 20mph ‘created more deaths than injuries’ but council can’t afford to scrap them



"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 18-Dec-17 9:59 AM, Bod wrote:
On 18/12/2017 09:41, Bod wrote:
A council has said that 20mph zones recently introduced in its area will
stay despite a rise in the number of deaths and injuries.

Bath and North East Somerset Council spent £871,000 bringing in the 13
new speed zones just 12 months ago. Woman openly admits she loves her
dog more than her only child But one year on, a report has found that
the rate of people killed or seriously injured has gone up in seven out
of the 13 new 20mph zones. The report, published in May 2017 by Bath and
North East Somerset Council, says this is a national trend.

The council suggests people are ‘less diligent’ when walking and
crossing roads within the zones, because they think they are safer.
Deputy council leader Councillor Patrick Anketell-Jones has admitted
there simply isn’t the money available to reverse the 20mph zones.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/12/18/reduci...8/?ito=cbshare

The Council said "it would cost £800,000 to remove the signs"
That's a ridiculous amount!


They are talking of 20mph zones. A 20mph speed limit can be reversed
simply by issuing the necessary traffic order and removing the signs. A
20mph zone has to be designed to be self-enforcing, which means lots of
traffic calming measures. Those would also need to be removed and the
roads restored to their former condition to reverse a 20mph zone.


but do they absolutely need to be?

the road outside my estate has speed calming humps, but the speed limit is
still 30 mph

tim



 




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