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Are racing bikes involved in the most deaths?



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 12th 14, 09:25 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling,rec.bicycles.tech
Peter Keller[_3_]
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Posts: 8,736
Default Are racing bikes involved in the most deaths?

On Mon, 11 Aug 2014 17:08:24 +0000, Cassandra wrote:

On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 12:44:10 +0100, Nick
wrote:

On 10/08/2014 11:10, JNugent wrote:
On 10/08/2014 10:39, Nick wrote:

On 09/08/2014 11:12, Cassandra wrote:

With the hands above the brake levers one can still operate the
brake levers pretty well.

Nonsense You lose most of the mechanical advantage of the brake
lever and the power of your hand.
Its like claiming pliars work pretty well if you hold them at the
jaws

You are making an assumption that braking efficiency is dominated by
pressure applied to brake levers.

Surely it *is*?

On my bike the limiting factor is instead the tyre friction against
the road.

Very true, and there is also the mediating factor of the friction
between the braking mechanism and the wheel. But is there any serious
dispute of the proposition that the amount of that friction is related
-
directly - to the force with which the brake block is applied to the
relevant surface of the wheel (ie, proportional to the effort expended
by the rider)?

I can apply enough pressure to the levers to lock the front wheel
when riding on the hoods. If this were not the case I would agree
with your argument.

But can every rider do that? And wouldn't any rider be able to stop
even more quickly if they were in a position to apply (up to) maximum
effort to the mechanism, rather than only a proportion of it at best?


Yes you are right. Its similar to driving in the days prior to anti lock
braking. It wasn't enough to just lock the wheels, In order to stop
really quickly once you were in a skid you had to use all your strength
to push the brake pedal through the floor.

Thats not how you brake in a skid.


Exactly. One must periodically and rapidly let off the braking force so
the wheel can turn and one can steer.
This is how electronic braking systems work (not that you find many of
those on bicycles!)
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  #2  
Old August 12th 14, 10:46 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling,rec.bicycles.tech
Tarcap
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Posts: 1,950
Default Are racing bikes involved in the most deaths?



"Peter Keller" wrote in message ...

On Mon, 11 Aug 2014 17:08:24 +0000, Cassandra wrote:

On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 12:44:10 +0100, Nick
wrote:

On 10/08/2014 11:10, JNugent wrote:
On 10/08/2014 10:39, Nick wrote:

On 09/08/2014 11:12, Cassandra wrote:

With the hands above the brake levers one can still operate the
brake levers pretty well.

Nonsense You lose most of the mechanical advantage of the brake
lever and the power of your hand.
Its like claiming pliars work pretty well if you hold them at the
jaws

You are making an assumption that braking efficiency is dominated by
pressure applied to brake levers.

Surely it *is*?

On my bike the limiting factor is instead the tyre friction against
the road.

Very true, and there is also the mediating factor of the friction
between the braking mechanism and the wheel. But is there any serious
dispute of the proposition that the amount of that friction is related
-
directly - to the force with which the brake block is applied to the
relevant surface of the wheel (ie, proportional to the effort expended
by the rider)?

I can apply enough pressure to the levers to lock the front wheel
when riding on the hoods. If this were not the case I would agree
with your argument.

But can every rider do that? And wouldn't any rider be able to stop
even more quickly if they were in a position to apply (up to) maximum
effort to the mechanism, rather than only a proportion of it at best?


Yes you are right. Its similar to driving in the days prior to anti lock
braking. It wasn't enough to just lock the wheels, In order to stop
really quickly once you were in a skid you had to use all your strength
to push the brake pedal through the floor.

Thats not how you brake in a skid.


Exactly. One must periodically and rapidly let off the braking force so
the wheel can turn and one can steer.
This is how electronic braking systems work

(not that you find many of those on bicycles!)

That's another reason why they are not a viable means of transport
  #3  
Old August 13th 14, 09:38 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling,rec.bicycles.tech
Peter Keller[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,736
Default Are racing bikes involved in the most deaths?

On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 10:46:29 +0100, Tarcap wrote:

"Peter Keller" wrote in message ...

On Mon, 11 Aug 2014 17:08:24 +0000, Cassandra wrote:

On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 12:44:10 +0100, Nick
wrote:

On 10/08/2014 11:10, JNugent wrote:
On 10/08/2014 10:39, Nick wrote:

On 09/08/2014 11:12, Cassandra wrote:

With the hands above the brake levers one can still operate the
brake levers pretty well.

Nonsense You lose most of the mechanical advantage of the brake
lever and the power of your hand.
Its like claiming pliars work pretty well if you hold them at the
jaws

You are making an assumption that braking efficiency is dominated by
pressure applied to brake levers.

Surely it *is*?

On my bike the limiting factor is instead the tyre friction against
the road.

Very true, and there is also the mediating factor of the friction
between the braking mechanism and the wheel. But is there any serious
dispute of the proposition that the amount of that friction is
related -
directly - to the force with which the brake block is applied to the
relevant surface of the wheel (ie, proportional to the effort
expended by the rider)?

I can apply enough pressure to the levers to lock the front wheel
when riding on the hoods. If this were not the case I would agree
with your argument.

But can every rider do that? And wouldn't any rider be able to stop
even more quickly if they were in a position to apply (up to) maximum
effort to the mechanism, rather than only a proportion of it at best?

Yes you are right. Its similar to driving in the days prior to anti
lock braking. It wasn't enough to just lock the wheels, In order to
stop really quickly once you were in a skid you had to use all your
strength to push the brake pedal through the floor.

Thats not how you brake in a skid.


Exactly. One must periodically and rapidly let off the braking force so
the wheel can turn and one can steer.
This is how electronic braking systems work

(not that you find many of those on bicycles!)

That's another reason why they are not a viable means of transport


I do not see the connection.

My bicycle is a very viable means of transport for many things. It has
very reliable easily modulated brakes.
You do not need EBS for that.
  #4  
Old August 13th 14, 04:31 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,270
Default Are racing bikes involved in the most deaths?

On Wednesday, August 13, 2014 4:38:04 AM UTC-4, Peter Keller wrote:
On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 10:46:29 +0100, Tarcap wrote:



"Peter Keller" wrote in message ...




On Mon, 11 Aug 2014 17:08:24 +0000, Cassandra wrote:




On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 12:44:10 +0100, Nick


wrote:




On 10/08/2014 11:10, JNugent wrote:


On 10/08/2014 10:39, Nick wrote:




On 09/08/2014 11:12, Cassandra wrote:




With the hands above the brake levers one can still operate the


brake levers pretty well.




Nonsense You lose most of the mechanical advantage of the brake


lever and the power of your hand.


Its like claiming pliars work pretty well if you hold them at the


jaws




You are making an assumption that braking efficiency is dominated by


pressure applied to brake levers.




Surely it *is*?




On my bike the limiting factor is instead the tyre friction against


the road.




Very true, and there is also the mediating factor of the friction


between the braking mechanism and the wheel. But is there any serious


dispute of the proposition that the amount of that friction is


related -


directly - to the force with which the brake block is applied to the


relevant surface of the wheel (ie, proportional to the effort


expended by the rider)?




I can apply enough pressure to the levers to lock the front wheel


when riding on the hoods. If this were not the case I would agree


with your argument.




But can every rider do that? And wouldn't any rider be able to stop


even more quickly if they were in a position to apply (up to) maximum


effort to the mechanism, rather than only a proportion of it at best?




Yes you are right. Its similar to driving in the days prior to anti


lock braking. It wasn't enough to just lock the wheels, In order to


stop really quickly once you were in a skid you had to use all your


strength to push the brake pedal through the floor.




Thats not how you brake in a skid.




Exactly. One must periodically and rapidly let off the braking force so


the wheel can turn and one can steer.


This is how electronic braking systems work




(not that you find many of those on bicycles!)




That's another reason why they are not a viable means of transport




I do not see the connection.



My bicycle is a very viable means of transport for many things. It has

very reliable easily modulated brakes.

You do not need EBS for that.


I have a number of bicycles with drop handle bars and mechanical caliper brakes either side pull or cantliever. None of these bicycles including my single speed one with Dura Ace AX calipers has any trouble stopping when braking from the hoods. Nor do I have any trouble s eeing the road ahead of me when riding on the drops even if my drop bars are well below saddle level. My neck is flexible enough that I can tilt my head and raise my eyes enough to see ahead. In addition it's not all that fatiguing for me to look ahead even on long rides.

Cheers
  #5  
Old August 14th 14, 03:37 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 6,374
Default Are racing bikes involved in the most deaths?



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