v-brake or cantis?

Hi again,

well I'm the proud (hopefully) owner of a new (well, to me) bike. PO
did one thing that I didn't like, he replaced the stock cantis with
direct pulls, makes for a hell of what I would call "pedal ratio" (from
an automotive standpoint) but I can bottom out the levers (haven't tried
it while riding yet, obviously, but still, not good.) I see I can get a
set of Tektro Oryx (what the bike originally came with) cantis on eBay
for about $25, so I can obviously do that, any other recommends? Or
would it be better to stick with the v-brakes and change my brake
levers? That would add some complications as the brake levers are the
Shimano ones that you flick to shift gears. It's got a Tiagra front and
105 rear derailleur if that makes any difference.

I'm tempted to just buy the center pull cantilevers and be done with it,
but am wondering if anyone else has any suggestions for an "upgrade."

yes, I bought the Cannondale, got an extra set of tires and the stock
crank and chainrings with it as well (has "road" gears on it now) and I
couldn't find anything else wrong with it other than one tiny dent in
the top tube. It does still have the wheels that one poster referred to
as "absurd" but even though the spoke pattern looks even more
questionable in person than they do in pictures the wheels appear to be
darn near perfect, so there's one expense deferred for at least a while.

Unfortunately I just realized that I don't have a Presta tire pump
anymore! Dammit, I have a new toy and I can't even take it for a spin
around the block! Blast! Crud!

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On Apr 14, 6:52 pm, Nate Nagel wrote:
well I'm the proud (hopefully) owner of a new (well, to me) bike. PO
did one thing that I didn't like, he replaced the stock cantis with
direct pulls, makes for a hell of what I would call "pedal ratio"

Indeed. Standard road levers + V-brakes = disaster. You have three
options:

1. Replace the V-brakes with traditional cantilevers.
2. Replace the levers with Dia-Compe's 287V model.
3. Use some sort of Travel Agent contraption.

Sheldon Brown, three cheers:

http://sheldonbrown.com/cantilever-geometry.html#vbrake


Happy stopping.

On Apr 14, 7:52 pm, Nate Nagel wrote:
Hi again,

well I'm the proud (hopefully) owner of a new (well, to me) bike. PO
did one thing that I didn't like, he replaced the stock cantis with
direct pulls, makes for a hell of what I would call "pedal ratio" (from
an automotive standpoint) but I can bottom out the levers (haven't tried
it while riding yet, obviously, but still, not good.) I see I can get a
set of Tektro Oryx (what the bike originally came with) cantis on eBay
for about $25, so I can obviously do that, any other recommends? Or
would it be better to stick with the v-brakes and change my brake
levers? That would add some complications as the brake levers are the
Shimano ones that you flick to shift gears. It's got a Tiagra front and
105 rear derailleur if that makes any difference.

I'm tempted to just buy the center pull cantilevers and be done with it,
but am wondering if anyone else has any suggestions for an "upgrade."

You might consider a pair of Tektro 926 "Mini-Vs". Easier to setup
than a canti brake, work well with 'road' levers and very reasonably
priced at ~$25/pr if purchased online (e.g., AEBike.com). And they
work well with the stock pads, no need to "Salmon-ize".

On Apr 14, 9:42*pm, wrote:
On Apr 14, 6:52 pm, Nate Nagel wrote:

well I'm the proud (hopefully) owner of a new (well, to me) bike. *PO
did one thing that I didn't like, he replaced the stock cantis with
direct pulls, makes for a hell of what I would call "pedal ratio"

Very powerful--if you manage to reach the rim...no doubt. I'd avoid
riding the bike till this is sorted.


Indeed. *Standard road levers + V-brakes = disaster. *You have three
options:

1. Replace the V-brakes with traditional cantilevers.

That's the cheapest option.. Tektro Oryx are cheap--or even the
Nashbar clones. Don't forget hangars. $40 worth of bits.

2. Replace the levers with Dia-Compe's 287V model.

I really like the newer Tektro V model better ($25)--it's got super
comfy hoods--however, the bike likely has brifters, so one would need
shifters as well, likely bar ends. Not a bad setup--but a bit of work
and a good $100 of bits. Go this route if you for some reason don't
like the combo brifters--not likely I bet.

3. Use some sort of Travel Agent contraption.

Not a bad option for a road going cross bike. Vees really are pretty
sweet stoppers if you don't need mud clearance.


Sheldon Brown, three cheers:

*http://sheldonbrown.com/cantilever-geometry.html#vbrake

Yup. Good link. We just solved a problem for the LBS wrench with that.
He had to size up on a link cable to be able to both set the pads
close enough and also be able to quick release the link cable. Cantis
can be voodoo for sure.

Ozark Bicycle wrote:
On Apr 14, 7:52 pm, Nate Nagel wrote:

Hi again,

well I'm the proud (hopefully) owner of a new (well, to me) bike. PO
did one thing that I didn't like, he replaced the stock cantis with
direct pulls, makes for a hell of what I would call "pedal ratio" (from
an automotive standpoint) but I can bottom out the levers (haven't tried
it while riding yet, obviously, but still, not good.) I see I can get a
set of Tektro Oryx (what the bike originally came with) cantis on eBay
for about $25, so I can obviously do that, any other recommends? Or
would it be better to stick with the v-brakes and change my brake
levers? That would add some complications as the brake levers are the
Shimano ones that you flick to shift gears. It's got a Tiagra front and
105 rear derailleur if that makes any difference.

I'm tempted to just buy the center pull cantilevers and be done with it,
but am wondering if anyone else has any suggestions for an "upgrade."


You might consider a pair of Tektro 926 "Mini-Vs". Easier to setup
than a canti brake, work well with 'road' levers and very reasonably
priced at ~$25/pr if purchased online (e.g., AEBike.com). And they
work well with the stock pads, no need to "Salmon-ize".


Thanks, good to know there's another option. that would get rid of the
necessity to make new cables, at least. In your opinion, if that were
not a factor, which would you prefer, the stock center-pulls or the
mini-V's? They do look to be about the same price.

One site that listed them mentioned "One limitation is running fat tires
with this brake." Is that referring to MTB tires or could that possibly
be an issue with cyclocross or fat road tires?

thanks again for all the advice

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On Apr 14, 10:14 pm, Nate Nagel wrote:
Ozark Bicycle wrote:
On Apr 14, 7:52 pm, Nate Nagel wrote:

Hi again,

well I'm the proud (hopefully) owner of a new (well, to me) bike. PO
did one thing that I didn't like, he replaced the stock cantis with
direct pulls, makes for a hell of what I would call "pedal ratio" (from
an automotive standpoint) but I can bottom out the levers (haven't tried
it while riding yet, obviously, but still, not good.) I see I can get a
set of Tektro Oryx (what the bike originally came with) cantis on eBay
for about $25, so I can obviously do that, any other recommends? Or
would it be better to stick with the v-brakes and change my brake
levers? That would add some complications as the brake levers are the
Shimano ones that you flick to shift gears. It's got a Tiagra front and
105 rear derailleur if that makes any difference.

I'm tempted to just buy the center pull cantilevers and be done with it,
but am wondering if anyone else has any suggestions for an "upgrade."

You might consider a pair of Tektro 926 "Mini-Vs". Easier to setup
than a canti brake, work well with 'road' levers and very reasonably
priced at ~$25/pr if purchased online (e.g., AEBike.com). And they
work well with the stock pads, no need to "Salmon-ize".

Thanks, good to know there's another option. that would get rid of the
necessity to make new cables, at least. In your opinion, if that were
not a factor, which would you prefer, the stock center-pulls or the
mini-V's? They do look to be about the same price.

I chose a pair of 926s for one of my bikes _over_ cantis. Easier to
setup, no cable hangers needed, etc. I also put a set on inline cable
adjusters directly upstream of the brakes to make "fine tuning" for
slightly different rim widths easier.

Cantis might be preferable if you are concerned about fitting wide
tires _and_ fenders, since they give more clearance.

One site that listed them mentioned "One limitation is running fat tires
with this brake." Is that referring to MTB tires or could that possibly
be an issue with cyclocross or fat road tires?

I've used tires up to 38mm wide (measured width, the sidewalls say
41x622) without any issues (but not with fenders).

thanks again for all the advice


Enjoy the bike!

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On Apr 14, 10:03 pm, Ozark Bicycle
wrote:
On Apr 14, 7:52 pm, Nate Nagel wrote:



Hi again,

well I'm the proud (hopefully) owner of a new (well, to me) bike. PO
did one thing that I didn't like, he replaced the stock cantis with
direct pulls, makes for a hell of what I would call "pedal ratio" (from
an automotive standpoint) but I can bottom out the levers (haven't tried
it while riding yet, obviously, but still, not good.) I see I can get a
set of Tektro Oryx (what the bike originally came with) cantis on eBay
for about $25, so I can obviously do that, any other recommends? Or
would it be better to stick with the v-brakes and change my brake
levers? That would add some complications as the brake levers are the
Shimano ones that you flick to shift gears. It's got a Tiagra front and
105 rear derailleur if that makes any difference.

I'm tempted to just buy the center pull cantilevers and be done with it,
but am wondering if anyone else has any suggestions for an "upgrade."

You might consider a pair of Tektro 926 "Mini-Vs". Easier to setup
than a canti brake, work well with 'road' levers and very reasonably
priced at ~$25/pr if purchased online (e.g., AEBike.com). And they
work well with the stock pads, no need to "Salmon-ize".



Or consider brakes that take "V" brake type pads. Yeah, they're thin
but they change in a minute and you don't have to futz with resetting
the brakes in three or four degrees of freedom. And they have a longer
brake face than conventional center pull cantilevers. Many make them,
from Shimano to Nashbar. You can get salmon pads if you want - I find
them universally noisy in this format, though.

On Apr 14, 10:29*pm, Ozark Bicycle
wrote:
On Apr 14, 10:14 pm, Nate Nagel wrote:



Ozark Bicycle wrote:
On Apr 14, 7:52 pm, Nate Nagel wrote:

Hi again,

well I'm the proud (hopefully) owner of a new (well, to me) bike. *PO
did one thing that I didn't like, he replaced the stock cantis with
direct pulls, makes for a hell of what I would call "pedal ratio" (from
an automotive standpoint) but I can bottom out the levers (haven't tried
it while riding yet, obviously, but still, not good.) *I see I can get a
set of Tektro Oryx (what the bike originally came with) cantis on eBay
for about $25, so I can obviously do that, any other recommends? *Or
would it be better to stick with the v-brakes and change my brake
levers? *That would add some complications as the brake levers are the
Shimano ones that you flick to shift gears. *It's got a Tiagra front and
105 rear derailleur if that makes any difference.

I'm tempted to just buy the center pull cantilevers and be done with it,
but am wondering if anyone else has any suggestions for an "upgrade."

You might consider a pair of Tektro 926 "Mini-Vs". Easier to setup
than a canti brake, work well with 'road' levers and very reasonably
priced at ~$25/pr if purchased online (e.g., AEBike.com). And they
work well with the stock pads, no need to "Salmon-ize".

Those have an arm length that's something like 70% of standard vees,
right? (and of course how does arm length exponentially increase
mechanical advantage)
How do you find the braking? Is is binary or manageable with the
(increased?) advantage?

I'm a newcomer to Vees as a user since September. I love them set up
right. Spring tension as much as possible and really good pad toe-in
to give modulation. Vees can work with no toe-in, but they have so
much more flavor if set up right.

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 20:52:35 -0400, Nate Nagel wrote:

Hi again,

well I'm the proud (hopefully) owner of a new (well, to me) bike. PO
did one thing that I didn't like, he replaced the stock cantis with
direct pulls, makes for a hell of what I would call "pedal ratio" (from
an automotive standpoint) but I can bottom out the levers (haven't tried
it while riding yet, obviously, but still, not good.) I see I can get a
set of Tektro Oryx (what the bike originally came with) cantis on eBay
for about $25, so I can obviously do that, any other recommends? Or
would it be better to stick with the v-brakes and change my brake
levers? That would add some complications as the brake levers are the
Shimano ones that you flick to shift gears. It's got a Tiagra front and
105 rear derailleur if that makes any difference.

I'm tempted to just buy the center pull cantilevers and be done with it,
but am wondering if anyone else has any suggestions for an "upgrade."

Are you sure your brakes, especially the cables, are corectly adjusted?

When the pads are new they should be almost in contact with the
rim, so you don't have to do much more than breathe on the levers to make
contact. As the pads wear out you may be able to bottom out the levers.
V-brakes needs to be adjusted quite often.


Tomas

On Apr 14, 11:10 pm, landotter wrote:
On Apr 14, 10:29 pm, Ozark Bicycle



wrote:
On Apr 14, 10:14 pm, Nate Nagel wrote:

Ozark Bicycle wrote:
On Apr 14, 7:52 pm, Nate Nagel wrote:

Hi again,

well I'm the proud (hopefully) owner of a new (well, to me) bike. PO
did one thing that I didn't like, he replaced the stock cantis with
direct pulls, makes for a hell of what I would call "pedal ratio" (from
an automotive standpoint) but I can bottom out the levers (haven't tried
it while riding yet, obviously, but still, not good.) I see I can get a
set of Tektro Oryx (what the bike originally came with) cantis on eBay
for about $25, so I can obviously do that, any other recommends? Or
would it be better to stick with the v-brakes and change my brake
levers? That would add some complications as the brake levers are the
Shimano ones that you flick to shift gears. It's got a Tiagra front and
105 rear derailleur if that makes any difference.

I'm tempted to just buy the center pull cantilevers and be done with it,
but am wondering if anyone else has any suggestions for an "upgrade."

You might consider a pair of Tektro 926 "Mini-Vs". Easier to setup
than a canti brake, work well with 'road' levers and very reasonably
priced at ~$25/pr if purchased online (e.g., AEBike.com). And they
work well with the stock pads, no need to "Salmon-ize".

Those have an arm length that's something like 70% of standard vees,
right? (and of course how does arm length exponentially increase
mechanical advantage)

Yes, ~70% of "standard" Vs.


How do you find the braking?

They work wonderfully well, with excellent modulation. And don't
underestimate the factory standard pads, they work just fine.
("Standard" Vs and well setup cantis do have higher absolute stopping
power, but that's only an issue on a loaded bike, IMO (I have Shimano
LX Vs on my touring bike), if it's an issue at all.)

Is is binary or manageable with the
(increased?) advantage?

"Increased"? I'm not sure what you are asking here (?).



I'm a newcomer to Vees as a user since September. I love them set up
right. Spring tension as much as possible and really good pad toe-in
to give modulation. Vees can work with no toe-in, but they have so
much more flavor if set up right.

Yes, they do require some care for best performance, but they are much
less fussy than cantis. IMO, the presence of poorly setup, cheap n'
cheesy Vs have given some people a bad taste of what can be an
excellent design when properly implemented (in both design and setup).