Bike Facilities Report: Protected Bike Lanes a "Resounding Success"

On 8/7/2014 7:54 AM, sms wrote:
On 8/5/2014 7:14 AM, jbeattie wrote:
http://bikeportland.org/2014/06/02/g...e-lanes-106714


PDF:
http://bikeportland.org/wp-content/u...nalReportb.pdf


Good report, though I think we all know one person that won't be pleased
with it.

You mean the one person who has read and studied far more on this issue
than (almost?) anyone else here.

Or have you actually read the paper in question, plus the critiques of
the paper that have been available for months?


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Thu, 7 Aug 2014 04:18:31 +0000 (UTC), Duane wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 06 Aug 2014 13:24:24 -0400, Duane
wrote:

On 8/6/2014 12:46 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, August 6, 2014 8:13:06 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, August 6, 2014 4:10:05 AM UTC+1, James wrote:



"The footage captured the experiences of 13 riders over 127 hours and in



that time, 54 �events� were identified � two crashes, six near-crashes



and 46 �incidents�."



I don't know if this is the study Krygo is ranting on about. But on
the face of it, one accident and numerous dangerous incidents (in the
large majority of which drivers were at fault entirely outside of the
cyclist's control) every 63.5 hours on the bike, would certainly make
me wonder whether cycling on those roads can possibly be worth the
risk. That's an accident every 1000 miles (at a common average speed
on the bike of 25kph/15mph), and serious stress to stay alive every
minute you're on the bike.



The important point is that the drivers cause these problems and the
remedies lie in the hands of the drivers. I can quite see the despair
of any involved official at the magnitude of the task of driver
training, and the consequent decision to attack the problem where he
has some control, by creating bicycle lanes or other facilities.



Andre Jute

My life is extremely valuable

The world really is becoming more dangerous for cyclists, but I think
it has more to do with the slow creep towards idiocracy than lack of
facilities. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0O7_3o3BrI

I was riding this weekend in a rural portion of Yamhill County (south
of Portland) and had two run-ins with motorist. One guy passed me on
an ascending country road with about 2" of clearance -- on purpose. I
yelled at him; he stopped, we had words -- but uncharacteristically, it
wasn't the "f*** you, no f**** you, no f*** you . . ." kind of
exchange. It was me reading him the vehicle code with statutory cites.
He responds with "share the road." I respond with the passing law and
a cite to ORS Ch 163 and criminal menacing or reckless endangerment. I
think he figures I'm a cop and shuts up and drives on. My friend is
memorizing his license plate.

Second run in was on a similar road, this time close passing combined
with Butt Head in the passenger seat who opens the door to hit me, but
apparently relents. This, again, is witnessed by my friend who is ten
bike lengths behind me. Car speeds off.

In 40 years of serious cycling, I have never had two assaults in one
day. Truly bizarre. Another compounding factor is that it has been
hot for a long spell -- I mean really hot for Portland. Everyone is
out, particularly the crazies.

BTW, it was an otherwise nice ride. http://tinyurl.com/m7szt3v


Sunday there were 6 of us riding down a two lane country road. It was a
pretty rough road with no shoulder so we're about 3 feet from the fog
line. One guy comes past us at 100k/h and passes about 6 inches to our
left. There is no one on the road and the lane is straight for a good
way. Most of the other traffic had no issue moving to the left lane and
passing properly. This guy was trying to make a point.

A few minutes later some asshole in a pickup passes us going 100 with
his finger raised. We all decided that we'd prefer the second asshole
to the first.

Didn't talk to either twit so no confrontation but two twits in one day
is not that unusual.

I suggest that you may live in the "Land of Arseholes" as I can
honestly say that I have never had that happen to me, here. I have
had, sitting on the bike at a light with one foot on the curb, a big
double decker bus pull in beside me close enough that I could touch
the side of the bus, but he might have been doing 3 - 4 KPH.

From reading the posts here it seems to be the English speaking
countries where these events are the most common.
--
Cheers,

I live in Quebec. L'office québécois de la langue française (aka language
police) serait très fou de l'entendre.

I was in both Montreal and Quebec years ago and people used to speak
English there :-) Have they all forgotten how?
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 8/7/2014 8:53 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 7 Aug 2014 04:18:31 +0000 (UTC), Duane wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 06 Aug 2014 13:24:24 -0400, Duane
wrote:

On 8/6/2014 12:46 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, August 6, 2014 8:13:06 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, August 6, 2014 4:10:05 AM UTC+1, James wrote:



"The footage captured the experiences of 13 riders over 127 hours and in



that time, 54 �events� were identified � two crashes, six near-crashes



and 46 �incidents�."



I don't know if this is the study Krygo is ranting on about. But on
the face of it, one accident and numerous dangerous incidents (in the
large majority of which drivers were at fault entirely outside of the
cyclist's control) every 63.5 hours on the bike, would certainly make
me wonder whether cycling on those roads can possibly be worth the
risk. That's an accident every 1000 miles (at a common average speed
on the bike of 25kph/15mph), and serious stress to stay alive every
minute you're on the bike.



The important point is that the drivers cause these problems and the
remedies lie in the hands of the drivers. I can quite see the despair
of any involved official at the magnitude of the task of driver
training, and the consequent decision to attack the problem where he
has some control, by creating bicycle lanes or other facilities.



Andre Jute

My life is extremely valuable

The world really is becoming more dangerous for cyclists, but I think
it has more to do with the slow creep towards idiocracy than lack of
facilities. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0O7_3o3BrI

I was riding this weekend in a rural portion of Yamhill County (south
of Portland) and had two run-ins with motorist. One guy passed me on
an ascending country road with about 2" of clearance -- on purpose. I
yelled at him; he stopped, we had words -- but uncharacteristically, it
wasn't the "f*** you, no f**** you, no f*** you . . ." kind of
exchange. It was me reading him the vehicle code with statutory cites.
He responds with "share the road." I respond with the passing law and
a cite to ORS Ch 163 and criminal menacing or reckless endangerment. I
think he figures I'm a cop and shuts up and drives on. My friend is
memorizing his license plate.

Second run in was on a similar road, this time close passing combined
with Butt Head in the passenger seat who opens the door to hit me, but
apparently relents. This, again, is witnessed by my friend who is ten
bike lengths behind me. Car speeds off.

In 40 years of serious cycling, I have never had two assaults in one
day. Truly bizarre. Another compounding factor is that it has been
hot for a long spell -- I mean really hot for Portland. Everyone is
out, particularly the crazies.

BTW, it was an otherwise nice ride. http://tinyurl.com/m7szt3v


Sunday there were 6 of us riding down a two lane country road. It was a
pretty rough road with no shoulder so we're about 3 feet from the fog
line. One guy comes past us at 100k/h and passes about 6 inches to our
left. There is no one on the road and the lane is straight for a good
way. Most of the other traffic had no issue moving to the left lane and
passing properly. This guy was trying to make a point.

A few minutes later some asshole in a pickup passes us going 100 with
his finger raised. We all decided that we'd prefer the second asshole
to the first.

Didn't talk to either twit so no confrontation but two twits in one day
is not that unusual.

I suggest that you may live in the "Land of Arseholes" as I can
honestly say that I have never had that happen to me, here. I have
had, sitting on the bike at a light with one foot on the curb, a big
double decker bus pull in beside me close enough that I could touch
the side of the bus, but he might have been doing 3 - 4 KPH.

From reading the posts here it seems to be the English speaking
countries where these events are the most common.
--
Cheers,

I live in Quebec. L'office québécois de la langue française (aka language
police) serait très fou de l'entendre.

I was in both Montreal and Quebec years ago and people used to speak
English there :-) Have they all forgotten how?
--
Cheers,

John B.


There's a substantial minority that speak English. The majority speaks
French. Many are bilingual but not all. The main cycling magazine here
(Velo Mag) is French only. Most of the documents from Velo Quebec are
in French though their web page is starting to be translated.

I'm just pointing out that your suggestion that English speaking
countries are where there are problems doesn't make sense. I could have
just as well asked if you'd ever been to Tijuana. :-)

On 8/7/2014 7:54 AM, sms wrote:
On 8/5/2014 7:14 AM, jbeattie wrote:
http://bikeportland.org/2014/06/02/g...e-lanes-106714


PDF:
http://bikeportland.org/wp-content/u...nalReportb.pdf


Good report, though I think we all know one person that won't be pleased
with it.

There's one other advantage of well-designed bicycle facilities that
wasn't mentioned--they help keep clueless cyclists off the sidewalk.

And off the road. lol. I often take the road instead...

On Thursday, August 7, 2014 1:54:20 AM UTC+1, James wrote:

It only takes one (_*_) (arsicon for arsehole) to spoil a ride.

Hallelujah, ain't that the truth.

Andre Jute
I heard Aretha Franklin sing in her father's church

On Thursday, August 7, 2014 9:46:44 AM UTC-4, Duane wrote:


There's a substantial minority that speak English. The majority speaks
French. Many are bilingual but not all. The main cycling magazine here
(Velo Mag) is French only. Most of the documents from Velo Quebec are
in French though their web page is starting to be translated.

I'm just pointing out that your suggestion that English speaking
countries are where there are problems doesn't make sense. I could have
just as well asked if you'd ever been to Tijuana. :-)

Speaking of speaking English: About a month ago, my wife and I traveled to
Cape Breton, passing through New Brunswick and the main part of Nova Scotia on
the way there, and returning through Quebec.

I noted that in NB and most of NS, signs are bilingual, English and French.
In Cape Breton (settled largely by Scots) signs were often bilingual in
English and Scots Gaelic.

In Quebec, signs were only in French. And while people were certainly bilingual in places like Quebec city, one out-in-the-country Tim Horton's fast
foodery plus one out-in-the-country gas station had nobody on site that
spoke English - or at least, admitted to it. The young ladies at Tim Horton's
seemed to be earnestly helping each other to figure out what I was trying
to order - i.e. a cup of tea and a muffin.

I'm frustratedly monolingual myself, so I'm not complaining. Just noting the
differences in different regions.

- Frank Krygowski

On Thu, 07 Aug 2014 08:40:21 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 8/7/2014 7:54 AM, sms wrote:
On 8/5/2014 7:14 AM, jbeattie wrote:
http://bikeportland.org/2014/06/02/g...e-lanes-106714


PDF:
http://bikeportland.org/wp-content/u...nalReportb.pdf


Good report, though I think we all know one person that won't be pleased
with it.

You mean the one person who has read and studied far more on this issue
than (almost?) anyone else here.

Or have you actually read the paper in question, plus the critiques of
the paper that have been available for months?

Read the Report? AND the critiques?

Isn't it on youtube :-(
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Thu, 07 Aug 2014 09:46:44 -0400, Duane
wrote:

On 8/7/2014 8:53 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 7 Aug 2014 04:18:31 +0000 (UTC), Duane wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 06 Aug 2014 13:24:24 -0400, Duane
wrote:

On 8/6/2014 12:46 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, August 6, 2014 8:13:06 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, August 6, 2014 4:10:05 AM UTC+1, James wrote:



"The footage captured the experiences of 13 riders over 127 hours and in



that time, 54 �events� were identified � two crashes, six near-crashes



and 46 �incidents�."



I don't know if this is the study Krygo is ranting on about. But on
the face of it, one accident and numerous dangerous incidents (in the
large majority of which drivers were at fault entirely outside of the
cyclist's control) every 63.5 hours on the bike, would certainly make
me wonder whether cycling on those roads can possibly be worth the
risk. That's an accident every 1000 miles (at a common average speed
on the bike of 25kph/15mph), and serious stress to stay alive every
minute you're on the bike.



The important point is that the drivers cause these problems and the
remedies lie in the hands of the drivers. I can quite see the despair
of any involved official at the magnitude of the task of driver
training, and the consequent decision to attack the problem where he
has some control, by creating bicycle lanes or other facilities.



Andre Jute

My life is extremely valuable

The world really is becoming more dangerous for cyclists, but I think
it has more to do with the slow creep towards idiocracy than lack of
facilities. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0O7_3o3BrI

I was riding this weekend in a rural portion of Yamhill County (south
of Portland) and had two run-ins with motorist. One guy passed me on
an ascending country road with about 2" of clearance -- on purpose. I
yelled at him; he stopped, we had words -- but uncharacteristically, it
wasn't the "f*** you, no f**** you, no f*** you . . ." kind of
exchange. It was me reading him the vehicle code with statutory cites.
He responds with "share the road." I respond with the passing law and
a cite to ORS Ch 163 and criminal menacing or reckless endangerment. I
think he figures I'm a cop and shuts up and drives on. My friend is
memorizing his license plate.

Second run in was on a similar road, this time close passing combined
with Butt Head in the passenger seat who opens the door to hit me, but
apparently relents. This, again, is witnessed by my friend who is ten
bike lengths behind me. Car speeds off.

In 40 years of serious cycling, I have never had two assaults in one
day. Truly bizarre. Another compounding factor is that it has been
hot for a long spell -- I mean really hot for Portland. Everyone is
out, particularly the crazies.

BTW, it was an otherwise nice ride. http://tinyurl.com/m7szt3v


Sunday there were 6 of us riding down a two lane country road. It was a
pretty rough road with no shoulder so we're about 3 feet from the fog
line. One guy comes past us at 100k/h and passes about 6 inches to our
left. There is no one on the road and the lane is straight for a good
way. Most of the other traffic had no issue moving to the left lane and
passing properly. This guy was trying to make a point.

A few minutes later some asshole in a pickup passes us going 100 with
his finger raised. We all decided that we'd prefer the second asshole
to the first.

Didn't talk to either twit so no confrontation but two twits in one day
is not that unusual.

I suggest that you may live in the "Land of Arseholes" as I can
honestly say that I have never had that happen to me, here. I have
had, sitting on the bike at a light with one foot on the curb, a big
double decker bus pull in beside me close enough that I could touch
the side of the bus, but he might have been doing 3 - 4 KPH.

From reading the posts here it seems to be the English speaking
countries where these events are the most common.
--
Cheers,

I live in Quebec. L'office québécois de la langue française (aka language
police) serait très fou de l'entendre.

I was in both Montreal and Quebec years ago and people used to speak
English there :-) Have they all forgotten how?
--
Cheers,

John B.


There's a substantial minority that speak English. The majority speaks
French. Many are bilingual but not all. The main cycling magazine here
(Velo Mag) is French only. Most of the documents from Velo Quebec are
in French though their web page is starting to be translated.

I'm just pointing out that your suggestion that English speaking
countries are where there are problems doesn't make sense. I could have
just as well asked if you'd ever been to Tijuana. :-)

Nuevo Larado. And from what I remember the shouts, when translated
were in the line of "Come! Spend Your Money!"
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Thu, 07 Aug 2014 09:46:44 -0400, Duane
wrote:

On 8/7/2014 8:53 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 7 Aug 2014 04:18:31 +0000 (UTC), Duane wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 06 Aug 2014 13:24:24 -0400, Duane
wrote:

On 8/6/2014 12:46 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, August 6, 2014 8:13:06 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, August 6, 2014 4:10:05 AM UTC+1, James wrote:



"The footage captured the experiences of 13 riders over 127 hours and in



that time, 54 �events� were identified � two crashes, six near-crashes



and 46 �incidents�."



I don't know if this is the study Krygo is ranting on about. But on
the face of it, one accident and numerous dangerous incidents (in the
large majority of which drivers were at fault entirely outside of the
cyclist's control) every 63.5 hours on the bike, would certainly make
me wonder whether cycling on those roads can possibly be worth the
risk. That's an accident every 1000 miles (at a common average speed
on the bike of 25kph/15mph), and serious stress to stay alive every
minute you're on the bike.



The important point is that the drivers cause these problems and the
remedies lie in the hands of the drivers. I can quite see the despair
of any involved official at the magnitude of the task of driver
training, and the consequent decision to attack the problem where he
has some control, by creating bicycle lanes or other facilities.



Andre Jute

My life is extremely valuable

The world really is becoming more dangerous for cyclists, but I think
it has more to do with the slow creep towards idiocracy than lack of
facilities. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0O7_3o3BrI

I was riding this weekend in a rural portion of Yamhill County (south
of Portland) and had two run-ins with motorist. One guy passed me on
an ascending country road with about 2" of clearance -- on purpose. I
yelled at him; he stopped, we had words -- but uncharacteristically, it
wasn't the "f*** you, no f**** you, no f*** you . . ." kind of
exchange. It was me reading him the vehicle code with statutory cites.
He responds with "share the road." I respond with the passing law and
a cite to ORS Ch 163 and criminal menacing or reckless endangerment. I
think he figures I'm a cop and shuts up and drives on. My friend is
memorizing his license plate.

Second run in was on a similar road, this time close passing combined
with Butt Head in the passenger seat who opens the door to hit me, but
apparently relents. This, again, is witnessed by my friend who is ten
bike lengths behind me. Car speeds off.

In 40 years of serious cycling, I have never had two assaults in one
day. Truly bizarre. Another compounding factor is that it has been
hot for a long spell -- I mean really hot for Portland. Everyone is
out, particularly the crazies.

BTW, it was an otherwise nice ride. http://tinyurl.com/m7szt3v


Sunday there were 6 of us riding down a two lane country road. It was a
pretty rough road with no shoulder so we're about 3 feet from the fog
line. One guy comes past us at 100k/h and passes about 6 inches to our
left. There is no one on the road and the lane is straight for a good
way. Most of the other traffic had no issue moving to the left lane and
passing properly. This guy was trying to make a point.

A few minutes later some asshole in a pickup passes us going 100 with
his finger raised. We all decided that we'd prefer the second asshole
to the first.

Didn't talk to either twit so no confrontation but two twits in one day
is not that unusual.

I suggest that you may live in the "Land of Arseholes" as I can
honestly say that I have never had that happen to me, here. I have
had, sitting on the bike at a light with one foot on the curb, a big
double decker bus pull in beside me close enough that I could touch
the side of the bus, but he might have been doing 3 - 4 KPH.

From reading the posts here it seems to be the English speaking
countries where these events are the most common.
--
Cheers,

I live in Quebec. L'office québécois de la langue française (aka language
police) serait très fou de l'entendre.

I was in both Montreal and Quebec years ago and people used to speak
English there :-) Have they all forgotten how?
--
Cheers,

John B.


There's a substantial minority that speak English. The majority speaks
French. Many are bilingual but not all. The main cycling magazine here
(Velo Mag) is French only. Most of the documents from Velo Quebec are
in French though their web page is starting to be translated.

I'm just pointing out that your suggestion that English speaking
countries are where there are problems doesn't make sense. I could have
just as well asked if you'd ever been to Tijuana. :-)


As for the Canadians speaking "French" I was once stationed (in Japan)
with a bloke from Canada and a Cajon from Louisiana and the arguments
over who spoke "proper French" :-) I also remember the stories about
the Free French ship that came into Boston Port during WW II and one
of the crew (from Paris apparently) journeyed a hundred miles north to
visit his long lost French relatives who had gotten to my little New
England town via Quebec. In those days the population of many New
England towns was pretty well made up of people with family names like
"Smith", "Jones", etc and those with names like "LaBlanc", "Couture",
"Dubuque", etc.

Unfortunately all these people with funny names didn't speak like they
did in Paris and the poor sailor had to communicate through "Father
Lucien" down at Holy Blood :-)

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Tuesday, August 5, 2014 7:43:11 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:

snip

PDX is a marvelous place. Continuous escalation of cyclist segregation
must be written into its city constitution! Its manifest destiny is an
omnipresent network of elevated cycletracks, free of any conflicts with
motor vehicles.

Too bad that despite all the wonders, PDX's bike mode share is stagnating.

Wow! (That's all - wow.)