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How long should caliper brake springs last?



 
 
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  #41  
Old August 5th 17, 09:58 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Barry Beams
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 42
Default How long should caliper brake springs last?

On Wednesday, July 26, 2017 at 4:40:49 PM UTC-7, sms wrote:
The brakes on my Specialized road bike were not opening all the way when
releasing the brake levers. At first I thought it was the old brake
cables having corrosion so I replace them, and I also put on a set of
new/used levers, since the springs in the original levers were weak, but
this wasn't sufficient.

Went to a bike shop this morning and the shop was closed but the service
area had an open door and I asked the mechanic about replacement
springs. These are for Dia-Compe Edge brakes that came with the bicycle,
circa 1987.

The mechanic told me to just replace the brake set. I ended up buying a
set of Ultegra 6800 calipers from him, with pads, that he had taken off
a bicycle where the owner was upgrading. At first he wanted to sell me
the whole Ultegra group for $300, which had a FC-6703 triple crank, but
he sold me the brakes only, for $50. This is a much better brakeset than
the original, but really I only needed the springs, I was just in a hurry..

How often should I have to replace brake springs. Since this road
bicycle is about 30 years old I figure that the springs do fatigue over
time.

I think this is what I wanted:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DIA-COMPE-S-...2cda8:g:LiIAAO SwUFtZaPkc


That McDonalds lawsuit established the reasonable temperature that a consumer product can reach without liability. Typically 65 or 68C. That relates to bike lights because most don't control the temperature, yet allow the light to get above 65C. 65C feels hot but you could keep touching without harn if you're a masochist. 68C tells you its too hot to keep touching, but no harm. 70C probably my give a slight scald. One example is the Serfas True xxx series. No temperature regulation, but I've measured 70C on the outside of the metal light head. Other top end lights that do have thermal control, like the Lupines and some L&M lights, regulate to keep the LED temperature lower than what will damage the LEDs, rather than will scald your fingertip.
Only my Oculus lights have a thermal dimmer and automatic temperature control set not to exceed 65C for the hottest spot on the exterior. Then the dimmer reduces power til the temp cools by 4C, then returns to full power.
Ads
  #42  
Old August 6th 17, 12:39 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,870
Default How long should caliper brake springs last?

On Saturday, August 5, 2017 at 1:05:20 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/5/2017 2:32 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, August 5, 2017 at 11:23:12 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-05 08:18, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/5/2017 10:13 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, August 5, 2017 at 7:59:40 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-04 18:06, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/4/2017 3:18 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-07-31 20:21, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/31/2017 5:50 PM, sms wrote:
On 7/27/2017 6:40 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jul 2017 09:57:44 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 7/27/2017 7:08 AM, AMuzi wrote:

snip

In theory maybe but I've never seen that in real life. Rust is
ugly
but
in terms of % reduction of cross section of a spring, it's
meaningless.

The spring is not rusty. But it pops out with no effort, it's just
not
springy anymore. It seems to be fatigued.

The brake sets are cleaned and lubed. I may still order some
springs to
use these brakes on another road bike which has lower quality
brakes. If
I were in Wisconsin, I'm sure that AMuzi would have the springs in
stock, but the shops in Silicon Valley have little interest in
stocking
and selling little parts like this.


Probably because no one but you ever wanted to buy any :-(

Yet they are available online, so clearly someone has wanted
them, and
there are instructions online that refer to the need to replace weak
springs.

There are? Where?


The springs?

No, Joerg. The instructions.

Where are those instructions online that refer to the need to replace
weak springs.?


Why does anyone need instructions to figure out that a weakened spring
is no longer fit for service and should be replaced?

Reminds me of "Attention, beverage is hot!" or "Do not put smoke
detector in mouth".

Hmmm. A "hot beverage" warning might have saved McDonalds a few
hundred thousand.


Yep, nowadays businesses have to assume widespread cases of aggravated
stupidity :-(


... Anyway, I think what Frank is getting at is that
brake springs don't wear out.


They can but one will feel when that happens and one does not need
instructions to feel it.


... It's like looking for instructions on
the need for replacing brake barrel adjusters or anchor bolts.


Well ...

https://www.structuraltechnologies.c...lts-experience


Well what? That's not a brake cable anchor bolt. Have you ever had a brake cable anchor bolt fail due to fatigue or age-related failure.


A house in the neighborhood had something like that, the inspector found
it and they had to fix it before it could sell. They even had to pay for
a permit, probably because it was considered a structural repair.


... There
are Campy NR record brakes still in service from the '60s with OE
springs. SMS probably just has a missing sleeve or poor lubrication.
It's possible a spring went bad, but really unlikely.


My 1982 Shimano 600 springs also still work as good as new. However, I
had failure in the past on cheapo road bikes, brake went mushy and then
... plink ... tchingalingaling ... part of the spring broke off. Not a
big deal and it's usually even possible to ride home.


Well sure, you can buy all sorts of sh** that will fail -- which is different from a spring getting soft.


It's California, so perhaps His Majesty Gerald of Brown has repealed
Hooke's Law. Sorta like 'sanctuary city' for metals.


Probably Hookah's law :-)

These guys seriously think that federal law doesn't apply in California.
Nuts.


Putting aside large scale producers, why should federal law apply to individual consumers? Health and welfare laws are typically the province of the states. Why shouldn't the states decide whether to legalize individual use of marijuana? Indeed, the conservative mantra is to rein in commerce clause legislation. I would think a true conservative would support state regulation of marijuana.



Good argument. +1 for subsidiarity.

Conservatives and libertines might suggest that the states
demur as well. But hey no regulation = no revenue stream so
who the hell will vote for that? Shaking down one industry
or another is the entire purpose.


I see no problem with sin taxes if they don't kill the legal market and create a black market. Current taxation and regulation of marijuana in Oregon is a little onerous, but the legal market is thriving -- at least from what I can tell based on the number of pot shops. http://www.oregonlive.com/marijuana/...he_number.html 167 shops.

It's like a gold rush. The sons and daughters of a number of lawyers I know are jumping into it -- growing, starting testing labs, creating edibles, etc., etc. I worry that once the craze is over and the dope Klondike dries up, they'll be looking for work. So far no epidemic of stoner accidents, but who knows, Joerg's pot apocalypse may occur.

-- Jay Beattie



  #43  
Old August 6th 17, 12:57 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default How long should caliper brake springs last?

On 2017-08-05 13:23, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/5/2017 3:02 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-05 12:32, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, August 5, 2017 at 11:23:12 AM UTC-7, Joerg
wrote:
On 2017-08-05 08:18, AMuzi wrote:


[...]


It's California, so perhaps His Majesty Gerald of Brown has
repealed Hooke's Law. Sorta like 'sanctuary city' for
metals.


Probably Hookah's law :-)

These guys seriously think that federal law doesn't apply in
California. Nuts.

Putting aside large scale producers, why should federal
law apply to
individual consumers? Health and welfare laws are
typically the
province of the states. Why shouldn't the states decide
whether to
legalize individual use of marijuana? Indeed, the
conservative mantra
is to rein in commerce clause legislation. I would think
a true
conservative would support state regulation of marijuana.


Not me. I have seen the aftermath. I am conservative at
heart but there are things that the federal government has
to take care of. Environmental rules, military, and yes,
health to a large extent.

If we wanted every law to be under state control driving
across the country would become a nightmare because you
never know what applies where. Then we might as well have 50
individual countries instead of states and no US.

States have typically joined out of free will of the voters.
That requires that they accept federal law trumping their
own law. Laws such as that it is illegal to hop the
country's border in the night and sneak in. Now a lot of
leftist Californian polticians are essentially saying "Well,
yeah, that was a long time ago. Now we see that differently
and we find that to be ok! To hell with federal law".


1. 100+ years of the total worldwide heroin ban. How's that government
regulation thing working out?


In countries where it is enforced it's worked out quite well. I lived in
one. In another two I lived where enforcement was lacking there are lots
of problems, as expected.


2. If you want taxpayers to buy a kiddie path where you ride your
bicycle, that's hardly conservative.


As a taxpayer I have a right to prefer where my tax Dollars go. The
alternative would be discontinuance of taxation, then we'll build it
ourselves.


3. National health? YGBSM! The regulation is bad enough but actual
health care really? Check out the wonderful results of BIA hospital
system. Over a hundred years of rank incompetence, fraud, theft, waste
and error. Good luck expanding that.


Most of us know that single-payer does not work when you get really
sick. No, what I mean is that government is supposed to push burdens out
of the way. Fix tort law. Disallow state fiefdoms. Allow sales of
insurance policy across state lines. Allow groups to negotiate drug
prices. And so on.

Because our current health plan is not available in Utah we cannot move
there. We could buy a ridiculously expensive plan on their exchange but
for most people that only works if they let their income drop to below
where they get subsidies. Which is what a lot of people do.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #44  
Old August 6th 17, 01:56 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default How long should caliper brake springs last?

On Sat, 05 Aug 2017 07:59:49 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-04 18:06, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/4/2017 3:18 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-07-31 20:21, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/31/2017 5:50 PM, sms wrote:
On 7/27/2017 6:40 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jul 2017 09:57:44 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 7/27/2017 7:08 AM, AMuzi wrote:

snip

In theory maybe but I've never seen that in real life. Rust is ugly
but
in terms of % reduction of cross section of a spring, it's
meaningless.

The spring is not rusty. But it pops out with no effort, it's just
not
springy anymore. It seems to be fatigued.

The brake sets are cleaned and lubed. I may still order some
springs to
use these brakes on another road bike which has lower quality
brakes. If
I were in Wisconsin, I'm sure that AMuzi would have the springs in
stock, but the shops in Silicon Valley have little interest in
stocking
and selling little parts like this.


Probably because no one but you ever wanted to buy any :-(

Yet they are available online, so clearly someone has wanted them, and
there are instructions online that refer to the need to replace weak
springs.

There are? Where?


The springs?


No, Joerg. The instructions.

Where are those instructions online that refer to the need to replace
weak springs.?


Why does anyone need instructions to figure out that a weakened spring
is no longer fit for service and should be replaced?

Reminds me of "Attention, beverage is hot!" or "Do not put smoke
detector in mouth".


From the court case concerning McDonalds coffee it appears that Usians
do require a notice that "Attention, beverage is hot!" while
Europeans, or specifically the English (if they are considered
European) do not. At least U.S. courts heard the case while an English
court refused to hear a similar case calling it "frivolous".
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #45  
Old August 6th 17, 02:07 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default How long should caliper brake springs last?

On Sat, 05 Aug 2017 15:23:24 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 8/5/2017 3:02 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-05 12:32, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, August 5, 2017 at 11:23:12 AM UTC-7, Joerg
wrote:
On 2017-08-05 08:18, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/5/2017 10:13 AM, jbeattie wrote:


[...]


... It's like looking for instructions on the need for
replacing brake barrel adjusters or anchor bolts.


Well ...

https://www.structuraltechnologies.c...lts-experience



Well what? That's not a brake cable anchor bolt. Have you
ever had a
brake cable anchor bolt fail due to fatigue or age-related
failure.


I didn't know you meant brake cable anchor bolt. I had one
on a car fail but not on a bicycle. Failures on bikes were
usually snapped cables.


A house in the neighborhood had something like that, the
inspector
found it and they had to fix it before it could sell.
They even had
to pay for a permit, probably because it was considered a
structural repair.


... There are Campy NR record brakes still in service
from the
'60s with OE springs. SMS probably just has a missing
sleeve or
poor lubrication. It's possible a spring went bad, but
really
unlikely.


My 1982 Shimano 600 springs also still work as good as new.
However, I had failure in the past on cheapo road bikes,
brake went
mushy and then ... plink ... tchingalingaling ... part of
the
spring broke off. Not a big deal and it's usually even
possible to
ride home.

Well sure, you can buy all sorts of sh** that will fail --
which is
different from a spring getting soft.



Snapping off or getting soft, either way it will have to be
replaced.


It's California, so perhaps His Majesty Gerald of Brown has
repealed Hooke's Law. Sorta like 'sanctuary city' for
metals.


Probably Hookah's law :-)

These guys seriously think that federal law doesn't apply in
California. Nuts.

Putting aside large scale producers, why should federal
law apply to
individual consumers? Health and welfare laws are
typically the
province of the states. Why shouldn't the states decide
whether to
legalize individual use of marijuana? Indeed, the
conservative mantra
is to rein in commerce clause legislation. I would think
a true
conservative would support state regulation of marijuana.


Not me. I have seen the aftermath. I am conservative at
heart but there are things that the federal government has
to take care of. Environmental rules, military, and yes,
health to a large extent.

If we wanted every law to be under state control driving
across the country would become a nightmare because you
never know what applies where. Then we might as well have 50
individual countries instead of states and no US.

States have typically joined out of free will of the voters.
That requires that they accept federal law trumping their
own law. Laws such as that it is illegal to hop the
country's border in the night and sneak in. Now a lot of
leftist Californian polticians are essentially saying "Well,
yeah, that was a long time ago. Now we see that differently
and we find that to be ok! To hell with federal law".


1. 100+ years of the total worldwide heroin ban. How's that
government regulation thing working out?


Actually a 100% ban on narcotics does work.... providing that the ban
is enforced. In Singapore where the use of narcotics is rather
severely penalized:

" According to the 2008 World Drug Report, 0.005 percent of the
population of Singapore are cannabis users, 0.003 percent use ecstasy
and 0.005 percent use opiates."
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #46  
Old August 6th 17, 02:25 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,270
Default How long should caliper brake springs last?

On Saturday, August 5, 2017 at 4:58:43 PM UTC-4, Barry Beams wrote:
On Wednesday, July 26, 2017 at 4:40:49 PM UTC-7, sms wrote:
The brakes on my Specialized road bike were not opening all the way when
releasing the brake levers. At first I thought it was the old brake
cables having corrosion so I replace them, and I also put on a set of
new/used levers, since the springs in the original levers were weak, but
this wasn't sufficient.

Went to a bike shop this morning and the shop was closed but the service
area had an open door and I asked the mechanic about replacement
springs. These are for Dia-Compe Edge brakes that came with the bicycle,
circa 1987.

The mechanic told me to just replace the brake set. I ended up buying a
set of Ultegra 6800 calipers from him, with pads, that he had taken off
a bicycle where the owner was upgrading. At first he wanted to sell me
the whole Ultegra group for $300, which had a FC-6703 triple crank, but
he sold me the brakes only, for $50. This is a much better brakeset than
the original, but really I only needed the springs, I was just in a hurry.

How often should I have to replace brake springs. Since this road
bicycle is about 30 years old I figure that the springs do fatigue over
time.

I think this is what I wanted:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DIA-COMPE-S-...2cda8:g:LiIAAO SwUFtZaPkc


That McDonalds lawsuit established the reasonable temperature that a consumer product can reach without liability. Typically 65 or 68C. That relates to bike lights because most don't control the temperature, yet allow the light to get above 65C. 65C feels hot but you could keep touching without harn if you're a masochist. 68C tells you its too hot to keep touching, but no harm. 70C probably my give a slight scald. One example is the Serfas True xxx series. No temperature regulation, but I've measured 70C on the outside of the metal light head. Other top end lights that do have thermal control, like the Lupines and some L&M lights, regulate to keep the LED temperature lower than what will damage the LEDs, rather than will scald your fingertip.
Only my Oculus lights have a thermal dimmer and automatic temperature control set not to exceed 65C for the hottest spot on the exterior. Then the dimmer reduces power til the temp cools by 4C, then returns to full power.


My Cygolite external battery powered light never gets hot enough to burn my fingers.

Cheers
  #47  
Old August 6th 17, 03:32 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default How long should caliper brake springs last?

On 8/5/2017 10:59 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-04 18:06, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/4/2017 3:18 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-07-31 20:21, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/31/2017 5:50 PM, sms wrote:
On 7/27/2017 6:40 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jul 2017 09:57:44 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 7/27/2017 7:08 AM, AMuzi wrote:

snip

In theory maybe but I've never seen that in real life. Rust is ugly
but
in terms of % reduction of cross section of a spring, it's
meaningless.

The spring is not rusty. But it pops out with no effort, it's just
not
springy anymore. It seems to be fatigued.

The brake sets are cleaned and lubed. I may still order some
springs to
use these brakes on another road bike which has lower quality
brakes. If
I were in Wisconsin, I'm sure that AMuzi would have the springs in
stock, but the shops in Silicon Valley have little interest in
stocking
and selling little parts like this.


Probably because no one but you ever wanted to buy any :-(

Yet they are available online, so clearly someone has wanted them, and
there are instructions online that refer to the need to replace weak
springs.

There are? Where?


The springs?


No, Joerg. The instructions.

Where are those instructions online that refer to the need to replace
weak springs.?


Why does anyone need instructions to figure out that a weakened spring
is no longer fit for service and should be replaced?


You're diverting the conversation. You said there were instructions
online referring to the need to replace weak springs. You haven't
produced a link.

In anything remotely like normal use, those springs last forever. The
fail about as often as the mounting nuts split in two.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #48  
Old August 6th 17, 03:33 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default How long should caliper brake springs last?

On 8/5/2017 4:02 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-05 12:32, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, August 5, 2017 at 11:23:12 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:



My 1982 Shimano 600 springs also still work as good as new.
However, I had failure in the past on cheapo road bikes, brake went
mushy and then ... plink ... tchingalingaling ... part of the
spring broke off. Not a big deal and it's usually even possible to
ride home.


Well sure, you can buy all sorts of sh** that will fail -- which is
different from a spring getting soft.



Snapping off or getting soft, either way it will have to be replaced.


So many imaginary hazards!

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #49  
Old August 6th 17, 03:38 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default How long should caliper brake springs last?

On 8/5/2017 4:23 PM, AMuzi wrote:


3. National health? YGBSM! The regulation is bad enough but actual
health care really? Check out the wonderful results of BIA hospital
system. Over a hundred years of rank incompetence, fraud, theft, waste
and error. Good luck expanding that.


Hmm. Why is it that just about every other modern westernized country
has a national health care system, and they all seem to deliver
significantly better outcomes at far lower cost than our system?

Why is it that America can't do as well?

Are we just not as intelligent as they are? Or is it some hideous fault
built into our economic system?

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #50  
Old August 6th 17, 04:08 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,374
Default How long should caliper brake springs last?

Minor fender benders

A few mistakes on the artery ..suspicious ...said to be females...

Obviously THEY'RE not having fun out there in indiscreet ways.

You can imagine the ProRally/Pikes Peak stoners with R8 4WD are off plowing distant wastelands not in downtown Fort Collins
 




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