California's Fires

On 10/25/2017 11:45 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/25/2017 5:06 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/25/2017 3:45 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/25/2017 1:39 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/25/2017 10:59 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/25/2017 8:49 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/24/2017 10:06 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/24/2017 9:24 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 11:42:41 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 10/24/2017 10:44 AM, AMuzi wrote:


an old observation but still true:
Under capitalism, it's man against man.
Under enlightened communism, it's the other way
around.

I'd say that under modern American capitalism, it's
billion dollar
corporation against man.

Probably true. But what is the alternate? Or perhaps,
what
is a
politically viable alternate?

It is tough to envision an alternative, especially a
near-term one. The fact is, large corporations have
money to
affect the election process in ways that no individuals
can
hope counter.

Current Ohio example: Issue Two in this next election
will
involve prices for pharmaceuticals. The measure is badly
written in some ways, but the essence is that no state
agency should pay more for pharmaceuticals than the
prices
negotiated by the Veteran's Administration. (The VA is
allowed to negotiate and does, just as do the medical
sytems
in Canada, Britain, France, etc. and as a result they
pay
FAR less.)

As I said, there are problems with this issue. But it's
amazing to watch the tidal waves of advertising the
pharmaceutical companies are funding to have it
defeated.
Ads on TV are at least 10 to 1 against it. They are
spending
fortunes in their efforts. Why? Because they have the
money
to do so, and they want to keep getting that money.

And of course, the ads are very misleading - such as
"defeat
it because it doesn't cover 3/4 of Ohioans!" Right,
because
it applies only to state agencies, and most don't get
their
medications that way.

Other examples abound. But when an industry like
this has
unlimited money to spend, they can pretty much buy what
they
want.

Note to non-USians: The USA is one of only two developed
nations where drug companies can, and do, market
prescription medications directly to consumers; as in
"Tell
your doctor you want THIS prescription drug!" As a
result,
TV ads are almost totally dominated by prescription
medicine
ads and, of course, motor vehicle ads.


And as with any other human interaction, you're free to
buy or not buy whatever the hell they're hawking.

In some cases, yes. We recently made that decision on one
family member's medicine. The doctor prescribed a time
release version that was exorbitantly expensive, in part
because there is no generic for that version. But there
is a
generic for the alternative that you must remember to take
twice per day. I phoned the doctor and had him change to
that generic, and there have been no problems.

Trouble is, "free to not buy" has little meaning when the
medication in question is literally necessary for life.Â
One
recent example is the Epi-pen. See
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...oost/89129620/




"Sen. Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa, has written the
manufacturer,
Mylan, asking for the reasons behind the price boosts for
EpiPen, an epinephine auto-injector used to treat allergy
reactions that has seen its price rise from $57 in 2007 to
about $500 today."Â As I recall, the ultimate answer was
"We
raised the price because we could."

Or more generally, there's this:
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/21/b...-protests.html




There's another medication in the house that costs a
bundle
and is not available in generic form. Turns out that in
other countries it is a generic. Here, they've managed to
control the patents not because of the medication, but
because of the cute little dispenser. Fortunately, that
med
is needed only rarely - but the legal/marketing ploy is
pretty offensive.

Bike analogy: I didn't mind SunTour having a patent
preventing other companies from using a slant
parallelogram
derailleur. But I would have been pretty offended if
the law
said "Bicyclists must use only one rear cog," or
"bicyclists
can change from one gear to another only using their bare
hands."

For example, I notice a constant series of complaints
about WalMart, product and policy, but I have never been
inside one myself. When I ask, "So why do you shop
there?"
I just get a blank stare.

I hear you. I don't shop there, deliberately.


Epinephrine is generic and old; predates FDA regulation.
The branded pen device is patented and they keep making
minor changes to extend the device patent.
Possession of a syringe was, in recent memory, a crime.
That's no longer true.
But hey if you find the pen device handy, it costs more.

Using your own epinephrine and your own syringe sounds fine.
Unless, that is, you're trying to fumble with it in the
middle of an anaphylactic event. Especially if you're a kid.

Fortunately, the public outcry and legislative interest
kicked in and forced that poor, poor corporation to
backtrack a bit.

I do feel sorry for the corporation. Somebody needs to give
it a nice hug, to make it feel better.


There are competitors with similar devices but somehow the
FDA has magically ruled against them repeatedly (safety
first! it's for the children!) despite at least one being
an exact copy of an older expired patent version of
EpiPen. They are available in other countries.

http://www.fiercepharma.com/sales-an...cruise-control


Holy crap! I didn't know the situation had changed.
Somebody is MAGA:

http://nypost.com/2017/06/16/fda-app...ive-to-epipen/


I fully expect you to support this administration for a 2d
term!

From your article: "Mylan, which has US headquarters near
Pittsburgh, launched generic EpiPens last December in an
effort to deflect mounting criticism."

I'll consider supporting the FDA. I don't think this has
anything to do with any elected administration.



Gurgle Dr Scott Gottleib. He promised big changes and
amazingly here's at least one.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 8:21:12 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:

P.S. I just came across this on you tube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoQajOum6wA

Isn't the epipen nothing more than a convenience? Most people that are going into antiphalactic shock are perfectly able to load a needle and use it. This is not an instantaneous reaction. And if you are so severely allergic to something that you need to carry medication with you all the time wouldn't you be sure that the people around you would know what to do?

So it is sort of confusing to me that people that had to do these things for decades suddenly can't do them because there is a more convenient method available.

On 10/25/2017 7:51 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 3:55:34 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/24/2017 5:31 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 8:42:44 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/24/2017 10:44 AM, AMuzi wrote:


an old observation but still true:
Under capitalism, it's man against man.
Under enlightened communism, it's the other way around.

I'd say that under modern American capitalism, it's billion dollar
corporation against man.

I find your comments to be a major reason that this country has had so many problems. I bet you made these sorts of comments in front of the children you were teaching because the leftist mutter these same sort of ignorances.

I taught things like statics, dynamics, strength of materials, robotics,
etc. For example, things like stress = M*c/I or like the following*:
D = (64*N*Pa*(K*L)^2/pi^3/E)^.25

But you're right that what I taught was sort of leftist. That's because,
as we've seen, reality has a bias against the right wing. ;-)

(*I admit, I had to look that one up. I no longer have things like that
memorized.)

--
- Frank Krygowski


The current Fed tilts into a very tenuous bridge between A and B often non existent. For example, throwing chicken guts,coal debris and proven toxics into clean backwater increases national production ? It does satisfy the local yokel vote of 5.

DemoProp writes this is basic mental deficiency that their smarts are all in industry as per throwing toxics into clean DemO water.


The effective policy is to tax poor working people to
subsidize electric cars and solar panels for rich people.
Makes the environmental degradation magically move 8000
miles to China so we can pretend it's gone.

You're welcome.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

writes:

On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 8:21:12 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:

P.S. I just came across this on you tube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoQajOum6wA

Isn't the epipen nothing more than a convenience? Most people that are
going into antiphalactic shock are perfectly able to load a needle and
use it. This is not an instantaneous reaction. And if you are so
severely allergic to something that you need to carry medication with
you all the time wouldn't you be sure that the people around you would
know what to do?

So it is sort of confusing to me that people that had to do these
things for decades suddenly can't do them because there is a more
convenient method available.

Convenience in an emergency translates to survival rate. Most people
subject to anaphylactic shock are not trained nor used to injecting
themselves, much less locating the drug, figuring and measuring a dose,
and then injecting, all while rapidly deteriorating physically and
mentally.

The epipen provides a pre-measured dose, a convenient and easily
recognized method of storage, and a simple mode of operation -- you just
stab it in, through clothing, no fine control needed. It's usable by a
person in a medical emergency, or by a family member without special
training. EMTs and emergency room physicians use them too, I watched
the process when my wife went into anaphylactic shock last summer.

The big problem seems to be that it's too difficult to get competing
products approved, and too easy to milk government protected
intellectual rent. The epipen or equivalent is hardly rocket surgery.
--

writes:

[...]

And MANY of the drugs that are
sold by competing foreign firms were developed in the US and were
immediately copied the second that the patents ran out.

You say that like it's a bad thing. I thought it was the very reason we
have patents.

--

On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 10:07:39 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
writes:

On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 8:21:12 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:

P.S. I just came across this on you tube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoQajOum6wA

Isn't the epipen nothing more than a convenience? Most people that are
going into antiphalactic shock are perfectly able to load a needle and
use it. This is not an instantaneous reaction. And if you are so
severely allergic to something that you need to carry medication with
you all the time wouldn't you be sure that the people around you would
know what to do?

So it is sort of confusing to me that people that had to do these
things for decades suddenly can't do them because there is a more
convenient method available.

Convenience in an emergency translates to survival rate. Most people
subject to anaphylactic shock are not trained nor used to injecting
themselves, much less locating the drug, figuring and measuring a dose,
and then injecting, all while rapidly deteriorating physically and
mentally.

The epipen provides a pre-measured dose, a convenient and easily
recognized method of storage, and a simple mode of operation -- you just
stab it in, through clothing, no fine control needed. It's usable by a
person in a medical emergency, or by a family member without special
training. EMTs and emergency room physicians use them too, I watched
the process when my wife went into anaphylactic shock last summer.

The big problem seems to be that it's too difficult to get competing
products approved, and too easy to milk government protected
intellectual rent. The epipen or equivalent is hardly rocket surgery.
--

Radey - if you do not understand that you have allergies of a nature that would set off anaphylactic shock why would you be carrying an epipen? And if you do surely you understand that these people would be trained in instantly recognizing the symptoms and would always carry medication and hypos.

Or do you carry an epipen around with you on the off chance that someone is going to require emergency medical treatment after eating some of John's Thai food?

On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 10:10:01 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
writes:

[...]

And MANY of the drugs that are
sold by competing foreign firms were developed in the US and were
immediately copied the second that the patents ran out.

You say that like it's a bad thing. I thought it was the very reason we
have patents.

Huh? I am responding to comments about the cost of drugs. We had Jay not understanding that the cost of developing drugs is gigantic. Some of the instruments I developed for assisting the development of drugs cost hundreds of thousands of dollars and these required many of these per facility. Literally thousands of tests are required per each drug and no matter how well they are tested anyone can have a reaction to them. We end up with these silly commercials on TV - "If you die from our drug stop using it."

writes:

On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 10:07:39 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
writes:

On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 8:21:12 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:

P.S. I just came across this on you tube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoQajOum6wA

Isn't the epipen nothing more than a convenience? Most people that are
going into antiphalactic shock are perfectly able to load a needle and
use it. This is not an instantaneous reaction. And if you are so
severely allergic to something that you need to carry medication with
you all the time wouldn't you be sure that the people around you would
know what to do?

So it is sort of confusing to me that people that had to do these
things for decades suddenly can't do them because there is a more
convenient method available.

Convenience in an emergency translates to survival rate. Most people
subject to anaphylactic shock are not trained nor used to injecting
themselves, much less locating the drug, figuring and measuring a dose,
and then injecting, all while rapidly deteriorating physically and
mentally.

The epipen provides a pre-measured dose, a convenient and easily
recognized method of storage, and a simple mode of operation -- you just
stab it in, through clothing, no fine control needed. It's usable by a
person in a medical emergency, or by a family member without special
training. EMTs and emergency room physicians use them too, I watched
the process when my wife went into anaphylactic shock last summer.

The big problem seems to be that it's too difficult to get competing
products approved, and too easy to milk government protected
intellectual rent. The epipen or equivalent is hardly rocket surgery.
--

Radey - if you do not understand that you have allergies of a nature
that would set off anaphylactic shock why would you be carrying an
epipen? And if you do surely you understand that these people would be
trained in instantly recognizing the symptoms and would always carry
medication and hypos.

Training that is used seldom or never is difficult. Anyone regularly
going into anaphylactic shock is probably not long for the world. Most
of those carrying epipens rarely have to use them, almost all are
probably replaced unused, when they pass their expiration date.

Should we all stock fire extinguishers that have to be loaded just before
they're used?

Or do you carry an epipen around with you on the off chance that
someone is going to require emergency medical treatment after eating
some of John's Thai food?

I don't, but medical or quasi-medical offices, eg dental offices, do
keep epipens on the off chance that a patient will require them. A nice
market to abuse. Would you rather a dental hygienist had to try to
look up or remember the right dosage of epinephrine, locate it, put it
in a syringe, and inject, or just stab a ready-made device into some
patient going into shock?

--

writes:

On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 10:10:01 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
writes:

[...]

And MANY of the drugs that are
sold by competing foreign firms were developed in the US and were
immediately copied the second that the patents ran out.

You say that like it's a bad thing. I thought it was the very reason we
have patents.

Huh? I am responding to comments about the cost of drugs. We had Jay
not understanding that the cost of developing drugs is gigantic. Some
of the instruments I developed for assisting the development of drugs
cost hundreds of thousands of dollars and these required many of these
per facility. Literally thousands of tests are required per each drug
and no matter how well they are tested anyone can have a reaction to
them. We end up with these silly commercials on TV - "If you die from
our drug stop using it."

Your statement implied that marketing a drug the second the patent ran
out was somehow underhanded. It's not, that's how markets and patents
are supposed to work.

--

On 10/26/2017 1:36 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
writes:

On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 10:07:39 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
writes:

On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 8:21:12 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:

P.S. I just came across this on you tube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoQajOum6wA

Isn't the epipen nothing more than a convenience? Most people that are
going into antiphalactic shock are perfectly able to load a needle and
use it. This is not an instantaneous reaction. And if you are so
severely allergic to something that you need to carry medication with
you all the time wouldn't you be sure that the people around you would
know what to do?

So it is sort of confusing to me that people that had to do these
things for decades suddenly can't do them because there is a more
convenient method available.

Convenience in an emergency translates to survival rate. Most people
subject to anaphylactic shock are not trained nor used to injecting
themselves, much less locating the drug, figuring and measuring a dose,
and then injecting, all while rapidly deteriorating physically and
mentally.

The epipen provides a pre-measured dose, a convenient and easily
recognized method of storage, and a simple mode of operation -- you just
stab it in, through clothing, no fine control needed. It's usable by a
person in a medical emergency, or by a family member without special
training. EMTs and emergency room physicians use them too, I watched
the process when my wife went into anaphylactic shock last summer.

The big problem seems to be that it's too difficult to get competing
products approved, and too easy to milk government protected
intellectual rent. The epipen or equivalent is hardly rocket surgery.
--

Radey - if you do not understand that you have allergies of a nature
that would set off anaphylactic shock why would you be carrying an
epipen? And if you do surely you understand that these people would be
trained in instantly recognizing the symptoms and would always carry
medication and hypos.

Training that is used seldom or never is difficult. Anyone regularly
going into anaphylactic shock is probably not long for the world. Most
of those carrying epipens rarely have to use them, almost all are
probably replaced unused, when they pass their expiration date.

Should we all stock fire extinguishers that have to be loaded just before
they're used?

Or do you carry an epipen around with you on the off chance that
someone is going to require emergency medical treatment after eating
some of John's Thai food?

I don't, but medical or quasi-medical offices, eg dental offices, do
keep epipens on the off chance that a patient will require them. A nice
market to abuse. Would you rather a dental hygienist had to try to
look up or remember the right dosage of epinephrine, locate it, put it
in a syringe, and inject, or just stab a ready-made device into some
patient going into shock?


By the way do you know if the recommended dose is
weight-adjusted? I'm thinking your standard issue 8 year old
with peanut allergy versus a 350lb adult USAian. I don't know.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971