#71
|
|||
|
|||
Chain waxing
On Monday, June 11, 2018 at 7:35:24 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-06-10 11:03, jbeattie wrote: On Sunday, June 10, 2018 at 9:49:56 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2018-06-10 08:01, jbeattie wrote: On Sunday, June 10, 2018 at 7:36:02 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2018-06-09 16:22, jbeattie wrote: On Saturday, June 9, 2018 at 8:04:24 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2018-06-08 10:06, jbeattie wrote: [...] ... She was up at like 2:00 AM this morning going through all my buckets in the garage . . . totally ****ed off at the condition of some of my bike cleaning brushes. So I asked her about the dust under the refrigerator . . . "have you seen that . . . have you? How could any self-respecting wife allow that disgusting accumulation? And your hair in the drain! It's like stringy snot! I want a divorce!" When making bacon and eggs this morning I mentioned a li'l grease spot on the range from yesterday. When I came home late from a fun MTB ride and she still made a very nice dinner. That didn't go over very well :-) Most women are neat freaks while most men would become real slobs if they weren't married to them. Have you seen Lou's garage? You could do surgery on the floor without fear of infection. Is this the guy who ride a bike with only a front brake? My wife has been very patient with the mess I made in the family room downstairs. I've been watching movies and doing heavy bike maintenance for the fleet which doubled when my son moved in after his injury. I'd be hearing about that every day. Though she has accepted that I ride on dirt trails a lot and that there is a fair amount of "trail debris" under the MTB in the garage. As long as none of it moves on its own. I just got back from Universal where I bought a liter of Shimano mineral oil for the hydraulic brakes. It was $4 more than buying 50ml from Bike Gallery. Incroyable -- $17.99 for 50ml. Even from Western, it's $12.75 for 50ml. You can get 1,000ml for anywhere from $18-22 low street price. I didn't even bother price matching at Universal and paid $22. I'll never use all that mineral oil, but I couldn't bear spending so much for 50ml. Maybe I'll sell the left overs on the disk brake black market. Sounds like the rip-off with brake pads. The LBS wants $16 for a pair of cheap resin pads while I buy nice ceramic-based ones for around $2/pair from China, in bulk. Well, as long as there is no brake pad tariff. The pads at the LBS are most likely also made in China, if not at the same factory. An oil change on a Rohloff hub would cost you about the same as an oil change on a car: https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/tools/ro...-8410/?geoc=US There must be huge profit margins on this stuff and of course they all try to make you captive by requiring to buy at the company store or the warranty is toast. By the way, I tried to buy $9 worth of hydraulic mineral oil made by Finish Line, and the guys at Bike Gallery (who I really like and have been good to me), basically swatted my hand away, saying that Shimano was the only way to go. I think either (1) Shimano has everyone cowed, or (2) Finish Line needs better PR. I think Shimano actually claims that the warranty on the hydraulic discs is voided if you use non-Shimano magical oil. I wonder if they'd do a full forensic investigation with each $100 warranty claim to find out which oil was used, who sold it, whether some sort of embargo was breached and whether the goons need to be sent out. My brakes are simple, they use DOT3 or DOT4 like the ones in our cars do. The quantity needs costs pennies. Shimano made the decision to go with mineral oil for the road discs, which was a legitimate choice, and considering the fill volumes, it saves a lot of waste DOT fluid that absorbs water and has to be tossed. DOT fluid is nasty on paint, etc. I can be sloppy with mineral oil -- use it for massage, laxative, etc., etc. It's multipurpose. DOT has much better performance when things get hot. Which they do on an MTB. Water boils off if you let it. So far I didn't have to change my fluid, just top off a wee bit. It is aggressive towards paint but not that aggressive. Paint is the last thing I'd worry about on my bikes. When doing fluid jobs on the brakes one has to be careful. I never spilled a drop. That's one of the jobs syringes where invented for. Actually, Shimano mineral oil has a higher boiling point than any DOT fluid, and it never changes boiling point. https://bikerumor.com/2013/04/11/tec...-disc-updated/ Scroll to the bottom. It's expensive, but it doesn't go bad -- so that's a plus. I hate having cans or bags of stuff that you have to throw away because they absorb water, like plaster and setting joint compounds, cement, etc. Quote (from your link): "An important point about the hygroscopic nature of DOT Fluid is that by absorbing the water into the fluid it is preventing pockets of water from forming that remain separate from the fluid in the system. Water is heavier and settles to the lowest point in the system, such as the caliper. This means that while the boiling point of the mineral oil remains high, the boiling point of the system is now that of water, only 100C/212F". That where the problem is. The caliper is where things get hot. I use a syringe, but I do get drips and drabs from the fill port or the lever port. Not much. You just wipe it off. Water in DOT boils out. That's what happens in the open systems on motor vehicles. Unfortunately bikes don't have those but if you were truly concerned about having to recycle that miniscule quantity you could just boil it off. Anyhow, I would not mind a Shimano brake system because I don't ride that hard (anymore). However, having seen a guy in front of me lose his front brake on a long downhill was a sobering lesson. Why did he lose his front brake? What sort of fluid was he using? Did he have a leaking lever or caliper? Good pads (organic or metalic)? I don't do super-crazy, dangerous gnarly mountain biking, so I can't speak to what is needed there, but mineral oil has proved to be more than adequate for my road/gravel discs. Shimano also manages heat with its "Ice tech" rotors and finned pads (still not going to lick my rotors after a descent). Plus, for road riding, ordinary rim brakes are fine. I prefer discs in the rain, which was all my riding this weekend. Braking was the least of my concerns. I was much more worried about traction, particularly after a long dry spell. -- Jay Beattie. |
Ads |
#72
|
|||
|
|||
Chain waxing
On 2018-06-11 08:05, Duane wrote:
On 11/06/2018 10:46 AM, Joerg wrote: On 2018-06-11 05:13, Duane wrote: On 09/06/2018 11:07 AM, Joerg wrote: On 2018-06-08 10:30, Duane wrote: On 08/06/2018 12:17 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2018-06-08 07:59, Duane wrote: On 08/06/2018 10:36 AM, Joerg wrote: On 2018-06-07 17:02, sms wrote: On 6/6/2018 7:35 AM, Joerg wrote: snip I clean my chain thoroughly using interdental toothbrushes. My wive found a brand at Costco that is more rigid than the usual ones so the job goes faster now. First used for my teeth, then later some day for a chain. Afterwards scrubbing with an old regular toothbrush, followed by a good wipe-down with Kleenex. Once the chain is really shiny I apply White Lightning Epic Ride. If you shake the bottle well the waxy stuff in it dissolves and thus gets onto the chain as well. I use a Q-Tip to dab it onlto the links, then gently wipe off any excess with a Kleenex. That way a road bike chain can run 150-250mi between cleanings depending on whether I ride more roads or more bike paths. Gets dirtier on roads. 40-50mi on the MTB, mostly on dirt trails. The upside is that this method does not require me to take the chain off the bike which I would really dread. OMG, is anyone really spending that much time on chain maintenance?! Get yourself a Park chain cleaner (or some other brand). Fill it with kerosene and run the chain through it. Repeat with clean solvent until the chain runs clean. Unless the chain is in the solvent, and moving, you won't get it clean on the inside. When it's clean, lubricate it with a foaming chain lube. So how long does that process take? And I mean with clean-up including the cleaning of the tools used. For most of those of us who are married clean-up is necessary, we can just leave the stuff sitting on some bench. The bike is already on the stand for washing. Last time I washed my road bike was ... ahm ... nineteen-sumpthin. The MTB doesn't get washed either, it just wouldn't make sense. The problems you have with equipment failure start to make sense... The BB would not have failed if I had hit it with the pressure washer after every ride. Yeah, right. WTF are you talking about? I don't wash my bike with a pressure washer and I don't wash my bike after every ride. I'm saying if you don't take care of your equipment and you seem to complain more than anyone of your equipment not lasting. Maybe you haven't noticed yet but I meticulously clean the chain and everything in the drive train every 50mi on the MTB and about every 200mi on the road bike. Afterwards there is a substantial amount of oily debris in the table on which the bikes standsi during this procedure. This debris isn't chucked into the landscape but properly disposed of via broom and trash can. Properly disposed of how? The local landfill? Correct. ... You do understand that there are biodegradable options for chain oil right? You do understand how long bio-degradation can take and that it can be very unhealthy for birds and othrs to pick up that stuff a day later, right? Whether there are mud spatters under the downtube has no bearing whatsoever on the longevity of bike components. So after years ( 18 I think you said) of not washing your bike there is only some mud under the down tube? Amazing. I enjoy free bike washes at regular intervals in winter. Hint: It might be amazing to you but it does indeed rain once in a while out here. ... I have a pan in my shed with a bottle of degreaser (not kerosene but something biodegradable) and the Park chain cleaner in the pan. Takes a few minutes to fill up the tool and run the chain through it. The pan catches the slosh. I don't usually change the degreaser. A couple minutes in the chain cleaner works well enough for me. Hose out everything and let it dry while the bike is drying. Certainly takes less time than what you describe with the toothbrushes. Well, yeah, if you just put the bath, the pan and so on back on the shelf as is. Not gonna happen here. You missed the part about hose everything down and let it dry with the bike. Cleanup doesn't take any time. Hose down the bath container? That would get you into trouble with environmental watchdogs some day. What bath? Comprends-tu biodegradeable? I do not consider the black oily gunk coming off my chain, sprockets, rollers and chain rings to be good for the environment. Maybe you should consider the possibility that not everyone has black oily gunk on their drive train. Every rider I know does after a few dozen miles. ... What do you use for the chain? Motor oil? White Lightning Epic Ride. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#73
|
|||
|
|||
Chain waxing
On 2018-06-11 08:39, David Scheidt wrote:
Joerg wrote: :Water in DOT boils out. That's what happens in the open systems on motor :vehicles. Unfortunately bikes don't have those but if you were truly What motor vehicle has a brake system open to atmosphere? It ain't the fifties, man. They're sealed systems. Have been for decades. What do you think that little hole is for? https://i.stack.imgur.com/lFHT8.jpg Brake fluid in motor vehicle systems is not recirculated much, and the the fluid that's in the calipers tends to stay in the calipers. It is not at all unusual to discover a caliper is full of water, while the fluid at the master cylinder is normal. That would be a vehicle in a very harsh state of neglect. Probably sat in a yard for a couple of decades. Water is supposed to mix with the brake fluid which is why that's DOT and not oil. This lowers the boiling point but when it does begin to become hot the boil-off can vent out the top. With a closed system on a bicycle it can't and you have to do that manually. I have to "burp" my MTB brakes about once a year. Takes a few minutes, no big deal. The amount of air in there by then is miniscule but I like the brakes to have a nice hard pressure point. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#74
|
|||
|
|||
Chain waxing
On 11/06/2018 12:52 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-06-11 08:05, Duane wrote: On 11/06/2018 10:46 AM, Joerg wrote: On 2018-06-11 05:13, Duane wrote: On 09/06/2018 11:07 AM, Joerg wrote: On 2018-06-08 10:30, Duane wrote: On 08/06/2018 12:17 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2018-06-08 07:59, Duane wrote: On 08/06/2018 10:36 AM, Joerg wrote: On 2018-06-07 17:02, sms wrote: On 6/6/2018 7:35 AM, Joerg wrote: snip I clean my chain thoroughly using interdental toothbrushes. My wive found a brand at Costco that is more rigid than the usual ones so the job goes faster now. First used for my teeth, then later some day for a chain. Afterwards scrubbing with an old regular toothbrush, followed by a good wipe-down with Kleenex. Once the chain is really shiny I apply White Lightning Epic Ride. If you shake the bottle well the waxy stuff in it dissolves and thus gets onto the chain as well. I use a Q-Tip to dab it onlto the links, then gently wipe off any excess with a Kleenex. That way a road bike chain can run 150-250mi between cleanings depending on whether I ride more roads or more bike paths. Gets dirtier on roads. 40-50mi on the MTB, mostly on dirt trails. The upside is that this method does not require me to take the chain off the bike which I would really dread. OMG, is anyone really spending that much time on chain maintenance?! Get yourself a Park chain cleaner (or some other brand). Fill it with kerosene and run the chain through it. Repeat with clean solvent until the chain runs clean. Unless the chain is in the solvent, and moving, you won't get it clean on the inside. When it's clean, lubricate it with a foaming chain lube. So how long does that process take? And I mean with clean-up including the cleaning of the tools used. For most of those of us who are married clean-up is necessary, we can just leave the stuff sitting on some bench. The bike is already on the stand for washing. Last time I washed my road bike was ... ahm ... nineteen-sumpthin. The MTB doesn't get washed either, it just wouldn't make sense. The problems you have with equipment failure start to make sense... The BB would not have failed if I had hit it with the pressure washer after every ride. Yeah, right. WTF are you talking about?Â* I don't wash my bike with a pressure washer and I don't wash my bike after every ride. I'm saying if you don't take care of your equipment and you seem to complain more than anyone of your equipment not lasting. Maybe you haven't noticed yet but I meticulously clean the chain and everything in the drive train every 50mi on the MTB and about every 200mi on the road bike. Afterwards there is a substantial amount of oily debris in the table on which the bikes standsi during this procedure. This debris isn't chucked into the landscape but properly disposed of via broom and trash can. Properly disposed of how?Â* The local landfill? Correct. Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â* ... You do understand that there are biodegradable options for chain oil right? You do understand how long bio-degradation can take and that it can be very unhealthy for birds and othrs to pick up that stuff a day later, right? And your landfill is bird safe? Your logic is hard to follow. Better to use non bio stuff and dump it in the landfill? Whether there are mud spatters under the downtube has no bearing whatsoever on the longevity of bike components. So after years ( 18 I think you said) of not washing your bike there is only some mud under the down tube?Â* Amazing. I enjoy free bike washes at regular intervals in winter. Hint: It might be amazing to you but it does indeed rain once in a while out here. Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* ... I have a pan in my shed with a bottle of degreaser (not kerosene but something biodegradable) and the Park chain cleaner in the pan.Â* Takes a few minutes to fill up the tool and run the chain through it.Â* The pan catches the slosh. I don't usually change the degreaser.Â* A couple minutes in the chain cleaner works well enough for me.Â* Hose out everything and let it dry while the bike is drying.Â* Certainly takes less time than what you describe with the toothbrushes. Well, yeah, if you just put the bath, the pan and so on back on the shelf as is. Not gonna happen here. You missed the part about hose everything down and let it dry with the bike.Â* Cleanup doesn't take any time. Hose down the bath container? That would get you into trouble with environmental watchdogs some day. What bath?Â* Comprends-tu biodegradeable? I do not consider the black oily gunk coming off my chain, sprockets, rollers and chain rings to be good for the environment. Maybe you should consider the possibility that not everyone has black oily gunk on their drive train. Every rider I know does after a few dozen miles. Â*... What do you use for the chain?Â* Motor oil? White Lightning Epic Ride. Never used it. Finish Line Dry works for me. I don't tend to get much "gunk" with regular maintenance. |
#75
|
|||
|
|||
Chain waxing
On Monday, June 11, 2018 at 7:40:33 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-06-10 14:01, jbeattie wrote: On Saturday, June 9, 2018 at 8:07:29 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2018-06-08 10:30, Duane wrote: On 08/06/2018 12:17 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2018-06-08 07:59, Duane wrote: On 08/06/2018 10:36 AM, Joerg wrote: On 2018-06-07 17:02, sms wrote: On 6/6/2018 7:35 AM, Joerg wrote: snip I clean my chain thoroughly using interdental toothbrushes. My wive found a brand at Costco that is more rigid than the usual ones so the job goes faster now. First used for my teeth, then later some day for a chain. Afterwards scrubbing with an old regular toothbrush, followed by a good wipe-down with Kleenex. Once the chain is really shiny I apply White Lightning Epic Ride. If you shake the bottle well the waxy stuff in it dissolves and thus gets onto the chain as well. I use a Q-Tip to dab it onlto the links, then gently wipe off any excess with a Kleenex. That way a road bike chain can run 150-250mi between cleanings depending on whether I ride more roads or more bike paths. Gets dirtier on roads. 40-50mi on the MTB, mostly on dirt trails. The upside is that this method does not require me to take the chain off the bike which I would really dread. OMG, is anyone really spending that much time on chain maintenance?! Get yourself a Park chain cleaner (or some other brand). Fill it with kerosene and run the chain through it. Repeat with clean solvent until the chain runs clean. Unless the chain is in the solvent, and moving, you won't get it clean on the inside. When it's clean, lubricate it with a foaming chain lube. So how long does that process take? And I mean with clean-up including the cleaning of the tools used. For most of those of us who are married clean-up is necessary, we can just leave the stuff sitting on some bench. The bike is already on the stand for washing. Last time I washed my road bike was ... ahm ... nineteen-sumpthin. The MTB doesn't get washed either, it just wouldn't make sense. The problems you have with equipment failure start to make sense... The BB would not have failed if I had hit it with the pressure washer after every ride. Yeah, right. I believe he uses a garden hose and not a 5000psi pressure washer. Ever watched the pros clean bikes (road and MTB)? Hose, suds, hose, etc., etc. Garden hoses are SOP. If your BB seals can't hack that, you need a different BB. I have seen high-pend MTB where they did not (!) provide a weep hole below the BB. Couldn't believe it at first. ... I have a pan in my shed with a bottle of degreaser (not kerosene but something biodegradable) and the Park chain cleaner in the pan. Takes a few minutes to fill up the tool and run the chain through it. The pan catches the slosh. I don't usually change the degreaser. A couple minutes in the chain cleaner works well enough for me. Hose out everything and let it dry while the bike is drying. Certainly takes less time than what you describe with the toothbrushes. Well, yeah, if you just put the bath, the pan and so on back on the shelf as is. Not gonna happen here. You missed the part about hose everything down and let it dry with the bike. Cleanup doesn't take any time. Hose down the bath container? That would get you into trouble with environmental watchdogs some day. He said it was biodegradable. I wonder what the Federales would have to say about that. Do you really think the US EPA cares about when you hose off your chain? Incroyable. Why don't you just say "I prefer to soak my chain in kerosene and dump that somewhere" rather than using a biodegradable cleaner. Just say "I don't wash my bikes" and don't try to make it impossible. People do it all the time -- even married people and city folk. I never said that. I just indicated that I find washing an MTB not to be a very productive task. 10mi later it's dirty again so what is the point of washing it? Just say that -- and not that the EPA or your wife or the tinfoil-hat brigade precludes more frequent or different washing. That's weird. -- Jay Beattie. PS -- I've cleaned my bike with everything under the sun and never faced an EPA enforcement action. |
#76
|
|||
|
|||
Chain waxing
On 2018-06-11 09:36, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, June 11, 2018 at 7:35:24 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2018-06-10 11:03, jbeattie wrote: [...] I use a syringe, but I do get drips and drabs from the fill port or the lever port. Not much. You just wipe it off. Water in DOT boils out. That's what happens in the open systems on motor vehicles. Unfortunately bikes don't have those but if you were truly concerned about having to recycle that miniscule quantity you could just boil it off. Anyhow, I would not mind a Shimano brake system because I don't ride that hard (anymore). However, having seen a guy in front of me lose his front brake on a long downhill was a sobering lesson. Why did he lose his front brake? What sort of fluid was he using? Did he have a leaking lever or caliper? Good pads (organic or metalic)? I don't remember. He said the lever suddenly pulled all the way to the handlebar and braking on the front was completely lost. After resting a while after that sort of shock it had come back. I don't do super-crazy, dangerous gnarly mountain biking, so I can't speak to what is needed there, but mineral oil has proved to be more than adequate for my road/gravel discs. For a road bike or CX I would not mind at all. For a new road bike I'd even consider cable disc brakes but not rim brakes. Even for my MTB riding non-DOT disc brakes would be ok because on the rare occasions where I do very long and curvy descents I stop here and there to take in a nice view. I am a trail rider, not a downhill bomber. In fact, a Shomano brake set is on my shopping list in case the PRomax Deciphers ever give up. So far they just don't. For serious downhill riding I'd always recommend DOT-brakes. ... Shimano also manages heat with its "Ice tech" rotors and finned pads (still not going to lick my rotors after a descent). Well, I don't want to spend lots of money on fancy mitigation measures just because the brake fluid type is sub-par. I use Shimano SM-RT66 8-inch rotors front and back on the MTB. The brakes are Promax Decipher with DOT-4 and the pads are ceramic-based from Hangzhou-Novic. Way more brake power than I ever need. ... Plus, for road riding, ordinary rim brakes are fine. As long as it does not rain or hail hard, then they are the pits. ... I prefer discs in the rain, which was all my riding this weekend. Braking was the least of my concerns. I was much more worried about traction, particularly after a long dry spell. When I saw a stand of poison oak at the last second on Friday I was sure glad I had powerful disc brakes. I still did brush against some and have a slight rash here and there but with weaker brakes that would have been a different story. Last year it was a bit more drastic, same singletrack. Saw a big fat rattlesnake at the last second. Whew. If you can't brake hard there it could mean weeks of misery and thousands in co-pay for the expensive antivenom. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#77
|
|||
|
|||
Chain waxing
On Sunday, June 10, 2018 at 4:36:02 PM UTC+2, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-06-09 16:22, jbeattie wrote: On Saturday, June 9, 2018 at 8:04:24 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2018-06-08 10:06, jbeattie wrote: [...] ... She was up at like 2:00 AM this morning going through all my buckets in the garage . . . totally ****ed off at the condition of some of my bike cleaning brushes. So I asked her about the dust under the refrigerator . . . "have you seen that . . . have you? How could any self-respecting wife allow that disgusting accumulation? And your hair in the drain! It's like stringy snot! I want a divorce!" When making bacon and eggs this morning I mentioned a li'l grease spot on the range from yesterday. When I came home late from a fun MTB ride and she still made a very nice dinner. That didn't go over very well :-) Most women are neat freaks while most men would become real slobs if they weren't married to them. Have you seen Lou's garage? You could do surgery on the floor without fear of infection. Is this the guy who ride a bike with only a front brake? Yep, the same guy who knows what he is doing, buying high quality stuff, takes care of his stuff and has an excellent trackrecord in not breaking equipment. Lou |
#78
|
|||
|
|||
Chain waxing
Joerg wrote:
:On 2018-06-11 08:39, David Scheidt wrote: : Joerg wrote: : : :Water in DOT boils out. That's what happens in the open systems on motor : :vehicles. Unfortunately bikes don't have those but if you were truly : : What motor vehicle has a brake system open to atmosphere? It ain't : the fifties, man. They're sealed systems. Have been for decades. : :What do you think that little hole is for? What do you think the diaphragm is for? :https://i.stack.imgur.com/lFHT8.jpg That's a cap for a clutch master cylinder, but the principal is the same. the rubber diaphragm is in contact with the fluid, kepeing the system sealed. the hole in the cap lets the air in and out of the air space between the air tight rubber gasket and the cap. That lets the fluid level flucuate with temperature or air pressure changes, etc, while still keepoing a sealed system. Brake systems open to the atmoshpere went out with the 60s. Bikes, by the way, use the same system: https://www.parktool.com/assets/img/...gure_11-12.jpg : Brake fluid : in motor vehicle systems is not recirculated much, and the the fluid : that's in the calipers tends to stay in the calipers. It is not at : all unusual to discover a caliper is full of water, while the fluid at : the master cylinder is normal. : :That would be a vehicle in a very harsh state of neglect. Probably sat :in a yard for a couple of decades. Water is supposed to mix with the :brake fluid which is why that's DOT and not oil. This lowers the boiling Brake fluid only carries a small amount of water, when that is exceeded, you have water and water-logged brake fluid. Because there is very little actual movement of fluid in conventional juice brakes, if the fluid in the caliper is overwhelmed, it seperates out, even if the amount of water involved is low enough the fluid volume of the whole system would carry it. It requires neglect or abuse, but I've seen it on working trucks. -- sig 74 |
#79
|
|||
|
|||
Chain waxing
On 6/11/2018 1:16 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-06-11 09:36, jbeattie wrote: Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* ... Plus, for road riding, ordinary rim brakes are fine. As long as it does not rain or hail hard, then they are the pits. Oh, Gawd. I and my club mates don't live in a desert. Everyone in our club has used rim brakes since they started cycling, and all but a very few still do. We've ridden in countless rains, from showers to thunderstorms, countless miles. I've been club safety chairman for decades and I hear about the crashes. I've never heard of one caused by inadequate braking in the rain. Never. This is a non-issue for almost all road cyclists. It's the current big "you _gotta_ have this!" item for the bike industry, so they can churn bike inventory. But in real life, it's no more necessary than magic daytime blinkies or funny plastic hats or aerodynamic sunglasses. Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* ... I prefer discs in the rain, which was all my riding this weekend.Â* Braking was the least of my concerns.Â* I was much more worried about traction, particularly after a long dry spell. When I saw a stand of poison oak at the last second on Friday I was sure glad I had powerful disc brakes. I still did brush against some and have a slight rash here and there but with weaker brakes that would have been a different story. Horrors! "Only disc brakes can save you from itching!!!" Last year it was a bit more drastic, same singletrack. Saw a big fat rattlesnake at the last second. Whew. If you can't brake hard there it could mean weeks of misery and thousands in co-pay for the expensive antivenom. Is this another Joergian game of "Worst Case Scenario"?? -- - Frank Krygowski |
#80
|
|||
|
|||
Chain waxing
On 2018-06-11 11:29, David Scheidt wrote:
Joerg wrote: :On 2018-06-11 08:39, David Scheidt wrote: : Joerg wrote: : : :Water in DOT boils out. That's what happens in the open systems on motor : :vehicles. Unfortunately bikes don't have those but if you were truly : : What motor vehicle has a brake system open to atmosphere? It ain't : the fifties, man. They're sealed systems. Have been for decades. : :What do you think that little hole is for? What do you think the diaphragm is for? :https://i.stack.imgur.com/lFHT8.jpg It separates one air volume from another (from the big one). But air is air is air. IOW if air bubbles boil up in a car's brake system they have a chance to exit the fluid and hiss into the air between the reservoir level and the diaphragm. On bikes that regions simply isn't there. That's a cap for a clutch master cylinder, but the principal is the same. the rubber diaphragm is in contact with the fluid, kepeing the system sealed. the hole in the cap lets the air in and out of the air space between the air tight rubber gasket and the cap. That lets the fluid level flucuate with temperature or air pressure changes, etc, while still keepoing a sealed system. Brake systems open to the atmoshpere went out with the 60s. Bikes, by the way, use the same system: https://www.parktool.com/assets/img/...gure_11-12.jpg You will notice that the fluid goes all the way to the diaphragm, there is no air underneath. Hence the "wet look". You either fill it to a high level, gently put the diaphragm and cap back on and quickly clean off the overflow (that's how I do it) or you leave the diaphragm on there and instead top off at the upper bleed screw. The key is topping off. In contrast, on a car you are not allowed to top off the reservoir, there is a min and a max fill level. The level is not allowed to get to the diaphragm whereas with bikes it's supposed to. : Brake fluid : in motor vehicle systems is not recirculated much, and the the fluid : that's in the calipers tends to stay in the calipers. It is not at : all unusual to discover a caliper is full of water, while the fluid at : the master cylinder is normal. : :That would be a vehicle in a very harsh state of neglect. Probably sat :in a yard for a couple of decades. Water is supposed to mix with the :brake fluid which is why that's DOT and not oil. This lowers the boiling Brake fluid only carries a small amount of water, when that is exceeded, you have water and water-logged brake fluid. Because there is very little actual movement of fluid in conventional juice brakes, if the fluid in the caliper is overwhelmed, it seperates out, even if the amount of water involved is low enough the fluid volume of the whole system would carry it. It requires neglect or abuse, but I've seen it on working trucks. Key is that air bubbles can vent off either into the outside air or a sizeable room below a diaphragm. On a motor vehicle it can, on a bicycle it can't. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Frame waxing | thirty-six | Techniques | 3 | June 30th 11 01:34 PM |
Proper chain waxing techs | Dave | Techniques | 7 | September 13th 06 05:18 AM |
Chain Waxing Followup | HarryB | Techniques | 15 | April 11th 06 02:35 AM |
Chain waxing + graphite question | HarryB | Techniques | 410 | March 16th 06 01:57 AM |
New chain waxing technique | Phil, Squid-in-Training | Techniques | 9 | February 2nd 06 05:04 AM |