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Peugeot PX-10 max cog size?



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 21st 18, 08:46 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 6,016
Default Peugeot PX-10 max cog size?

A friend has a vintage Peugeot PX-10, once upon a time nicely upgraded
with Phil Woods axles and BB. He is heavily into MTB, home-made electric
bikes and stuff and I have a hard time convincing him to fix up his road
bike. IOW, the bike doesn't need much other than new shifter handles, a
new freewheel and new tires. However, he doesn't want to put a lot of
effort and money into that.

The corn cob freewheels don't work in our hilly area for us, ahem, older
guys. What is the largest cog size a PX-10 can take without installing a
new derailer?

My old Shimano 600 was said to max out at 28T but I got it to easily
shift up to 32T by moving the wheel slightly forward in the dropout
slots. AFAIK that isn't possible on a PX-10 because it has short slots.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
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  #2  
Old September 21st 18, 08:55 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 1,261
Default Peugeot PX-10 max cog size?

On Friday, September 21, 2018 at 12:45:50 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
A friend has a vintage Peugeot PX-10, once upon a time nicely upgraded
with Phil Woods axles and BB. He is heavily into MTB, home-made electric
bikes and stuff and I have a hard time convincing him to fix up his road
bike. IOW, the bike doesn't need much other than new shifter handles, a
new freewheel and new tires. However, he doesn't want to put a lot of
effort and money into that.

The corn cob freewheels don't work in our hilly area for us, ahem, older
guys. What is the largest cog size a PX-10 can take without installing a
new derailer?

My old Shimano 600 was said to max out at 28T but I got it to easily
shift up to 32T by moving the wheel slightly forward in the dropout
slots. AFAIK that isn't possible on a PX-10 because it has short slots.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


The real question is where in the hell do you get French freewheels with more than 28 tooth large cogs.

I was able to convert some to 8 speeds from 7's and the one thing you really need is a compact crank and not that absolutely horrible 52/48 like Jobst used to ride. He used to climb in a 48-19 and while he made it look easy he also moved at a snail's pace up hills.

That in turn is a possible but expensive change to a bike with French threaded BB.

And just between you and me, the PX-10 had really good geometry but the tubing was a rubber band.
  #3  
Old September 21st 18, 09:39 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 13,447
Default Peugeot PX-10 max cog size?

On 9/21/2018 2:46 PM, Joerg wrote:
A friend has a vintage Peugeot PX-10, once upon a time
nicely upgraded with Phil Woods axles and BB. He is heavily
into MTB, home-made electric bikes and stuff and I have a
hard time convincing him to fix up his road bike. IOW, the
bike doesn't need much other than new shifter handles, a new
freewheel and new tires. However, he doesn't want to put a
lot of effort and money into that.

The corn cob freewheels don't work in our hilly area for us,
ahem, older guys. What is the largest cog size a PX-10 can
take without installing a new derailer?

My old Shimano 600 was said to max out at 28T but I got it
to easily shift up to 32T by moving the wheel slightly
forward in the dropout slots. AFAIK that isn't possible on a
PX-10 because it has short slots.


How vintage is it? A 1960s through late 1970s PX10 has very
long ends and a Simplex Criterium can span a 28FW with the
Stronglight 63 or 93 crank's 38t low front ring.

1980s PX10 has standard ends and can take a modern $15 rear
changer. Ugly, but fits and then you could go to a 34FW

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #4  
Old September 21st 18, 09:50 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Peugeot PX-10 max cog size?

On 2018-09-21 12:55, wrote:
On Friday, September 21, 2018 at 12:45:50 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
A friend has a vintage Peugeot PX-10, once upon a time nicely
upgraded with Phil Woods axles and BB. He is heavily into MTB,
home-made electric bikes and stuff and I have a hard time
convincing him to fix up his road bike. IOW, the bike doesn't need
much other than new shifter handles, a new freewheel and new tires.
However, he doesn't want to put a lot of effort and money into
that.

The corn cob freewheels don't work in our hilly area for us, ahem,
older guys. What is the largest cog size a PX-10 can take without
installing a new derailer?

My old Shimano 600 was said to max out at 28T but I got it to
easily shift up to 32T by moving the wheel slightly forward in the
dropout slots. AFAIK that isn't possible on a PX-10 because it has
short slots.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

The real question is where in the hell do you get French freewheels
with more than 28 tooth large cogs.


It has Phil Woods hubs so I assume that's all standard stuff. You can
even get 34T but that's a stretch with short road bike derailers:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Shimano-TZ3...4/322007138705


I was able to convert some to 8 speeds from 7's and the one thing you
really need is a compact crank and not that absolutely horrible 52/48
like Jobst used to ride. He used to climb in a 48-19 and while he
made it look easy he also moved at a snail's pace up hills.


Many of those old bikes can't have a compact unless you replace the BB
and the front derailer as well. I have 52/42 up front. I believe they
have a 39 as well but hard to find and won't make that big of a difference.


That in turn is a possible but expensive change to a bike with French
threaded BB.


Yup.


And just between you and me, the PX-10 had really good geometry but
the tubing was a rubber band.


Wouldn't be so bad because we'd be riding smooth long bike paths most of
the time, without standing in the pedals.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #5  
Old September 21st 18, 09:50 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Peugeot PX-10 max cog size?

On 9/21/2018 2:55 PM, wrote:
On Friday, September 21, 2018 at 12:45:50 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
A friend has a vintage Peugeot PX-10, once upon a time nicely upgraded
with Phil Woods axles and BB. He is heavily into MTB, home-made electric
bikes and stuff and I have a hard time convincing him to fix up his road
bike. IOW, the bike doesn't need much other than new shifter handles, a
new freewheel and new tires. However, he doesn't want to put a lot of
effort and money into that.

The corn cob freewheels don't work in our hilly area for us, ahem, older
guys. What is the largest cog size a PX-10 can take without installing a
new derailer?

My old Shimano 600 was said to max out at 28T but I got it to easily
shift up to 32T by moving the wheel slightly forward in the dropout
slots. AFAIK that isn't possible on a PX-10 because it has short slots.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

The real question is where in the hell do you get French freewheels with more than 28 tooth large cogs.

I was able to convert some to 8 speeds from 7's and the one thing you really need is a compact crank and not that absolutely horrible 52/48 like Jobst used to ride. He used to climb in a 48-19 and while he made it look easy he also moved at a snail's pace up hills.

That in turn is a possible but expensive change to a bike with French threaded BB.

And just between you and me, the PX-10 had really good geometry but the tubing was a rubber band.


Phil FW hubs are all and only BSC thread, not French metric.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #6  
Old September 21st 18, 09:55 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Peugeot PX-10 max cog size?

On 2018-09-21 13:39, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/21/2018 2:46 PM, Joerg wrote:
A friend has a vintage Peugeot PX-10, once upon a time
nicely upgraded with Phil Woods axles and BB. He is heavily
into MTB, home-made electric bikes and stuff and I have a
hard time convincing him to fix up his road bike. IOW, the
bike doesn't need much other than new shifter handles, a new
freewheel and new tires. However, he doesn't want to put a
lot of effort and money into that.

The corn cob freewheels don't work in our hilly area for us,
ahem, older guys. What is the largest cog size a PX-10 can
take without installing a new derailer?

My old Shimano 600 was said to max out at 28T but I got it
to easily shift up to 32T by moving the wheel slightly
forward in the dropout slots. AFAIK that isn't possible on a
PX-10 because it has short slots.


How vintage is it? A 1960s through late 1970s PX10 has very long ends
and a Simplex Criterium can span a 28FW with the Stronglight 63 or 93
crank's 38t low front ring.


Thanks. With long slots it might even accept 32T. That's what my bike
did even though everyone told me it wouldn't (1982 Gazelle Trim Trophy
frame). I rode 28T max for a while but found that on some hills I am
simply too old for that. Or ... ahem ... too old and too heavy.


1980s PX10 has standard ends and can take a modern $15 rear changer.
Ugly, but fits and then you could go to a 34FW


I'd have to ask him but likely it is an 80's model. Ugly wouldn't matter
to him and $15 is palatable.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #7  
Old September 21st 18, 09:58 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,870
Default Peugeot PX-10 max cog size?

On Friday, September 21, 2018 at 12:45:50 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
A friend has a vintage Peugeot PX-10, once upon a time nicely upgraded
with Phil Woods axles and BB. He is heavily into MTB, home-made electric
bikes and stuff and I have a hard time convincing him to fix up his road
bike. IOW, the bike doesn't need much other than new shifter handles, a
new freewheel and new tires. However, he doesn't want to put a lot of
effort and money into that.

The corn cob freewheels don't work in our hilly area for us, ahem, older
guys. What is the largest cog size a PX-10 can take without installing a
new derailer?

My old Shimano 600 was said to max out at 28T but I got it to easily
shift up to 32T by moving the wheel slightly forward in the dropout
slots. AFAIK that isn't possible on a PX-10 because it has short slots.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


Dude, its Phil Wood hubs and not Phil Woods "axles." Phil would be spinning in his grave.

The short answer is that the bike probably has a Simplex Prestige or LJ derailleur that will handle a 28t cog and maybe larger. You will have trouble finding a 5sp freewheel with a larger-than-28 cog. Its more common for 6sp to get into the 30t range.

Having been through this exercise with a PX10, a few points: (1) the derailleur hanger is French threaded and will not accept a modern derailleur. The hanger will have to be tapped to 10mm and filed for a b-adjuster, (2) it has 120mm spacing, and the stays will have to be spread to accommodate a modern 130mm hub if your pal wants to join the modern era. That is no big deal for a competent shop. I did that at home, but I also have dropout alignment tools. (3) Your pal is hosed when it comes to headsets unless he can find NOS French. Viola! https://www.amazon.com/Velo-Orange-T.../dp/B004JKGW9U He's also stuck with a 22.0mm OD stem, unless he can find NOS or wants to sand a new stem to 22.0mm. Don't ream the steerer. None of the bearings are standard size and neither is the DT if he wants to change his FD. The seatpost is probably 26.4 or some other odd size. If its the old Simplex seatpost, it also weighs about six pounds. The French went out of their way to make their bikes incompatible with the rest of the world..

If I had an old PX10, I'd sell it to a collector and get a modern bike. Skip all the hassles.


-- Jay Beattie.

  #8  
Old September 21st 18, 10:34 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Peugeot PX-10 max cog size?

On 2018-09-21 13:58, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, September 21, 2018 at 12:45:50 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
A friend has a vintage Peugeot PX-10, once upon a time nicely
upgraded with Phil Woods axles and BB. He is heavily into MTB,
home-made electric bikes and stuff and I have a hard time
convincing him to fix up his road bike. IOW, the bike doesn't need
much other than new shifter handles, a new freewheel and new tires.
However, he doesn't want to put a lot of effort and money into
that.

The corn cob freewheels don't work in our hilly area for us, ahem,
older guys. What is the largest cog size a PX-10 can take without
installing a new derailer?

My old Shimano 600 was said to max out at 28T but I got it to
easily shift up to 32T by moving the wheel slightly forward in the
dropout slots. AFAIK that isn't possible on a PX-10 because it has
short slots.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


Dude, its Phil Wood hubs and not Phil Woods "axles." Phil would be
spinning in his grave.


Oops. Sorry, Phil, if you can hear me. Though they did make the axles
there, too.


The short answer is that the bike probably has a Simplex Prestige or
LJ derailleur that will handle a 28t cog and maybe larger. You will
have trouble finding a 5sp freewheel with a larger-than-28 cog. Its
more common for 6sp to get into the 30t range.


I've seen them up to 34T though but then the 34T cog was a bail-out
configuration, big step from the next one. That would be ok for my
friend as well.


Having been through this exercise with a PX10, a few points: (1) the
derailleur hanger is French threaded and will not accept a modern
derailleur. The hanger will have to be tapped to 10mm and filed for
a b-adjuster, (2) it has 120mm spacing, and the stays will have to be
spread to accommodate a modern 130mm hub if your pal wants to join
the modern era. That is no big deal for a competent shop. I did
that at home, but I also have dropout alignment tools.



He is a machinist and tool & die maker by trade, has a fully equipped
garage with lathe, mill and so on. He is building stuff for his various
vehicles all the time and made a couple of parts for my MTB so I could
build a sturdy rack.

120mm is a pain though, 10mm is a lot of widening. Looks like this one
can be shortened by grinding off the outer cog:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Shimano-TZ3...4/322007138705


... (3) Your pal
is hosed when it comes to headsets unless he can find NOS French.
Viola!
https://www.amazon.com/Velo-Orange-T.../dp/B004JKGW9U
He's also stuck with a 22.0mm OD stem, unless he can find NOS or
wants to sand a new stem to 22.0mm. Don't ream the steerer. None of
the bearings are standard size and neither is the DT if he wants to
change his FD. The seatpost is probably 26.4 or some other odd size.
If its the old Simplex seatpost, it also weighs about six pounds. The
French went out of their way to make their bikes incompatible with
the rest of the world.


Yes, I remember that. If it was me I'd probably get a new bike or a used
one from Craigslist. However, such mechanical stuff leaves this guy
completely unfazed. He'll likely have to mod the front a bit as well
because drop bars give him neck pain.


If I had an old PX10, I'd sell it to a collector and get a modern
bike. Skip all the hassles.


Agree. I'd do the same, and maybe he will.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #9  
Old September 21st 18, 10:43 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Peugeot PX-10 max cog size?

On 9/21/2018 3:58 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, September 21, 2018 at 12:45:50 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
A friend has a vintage Peugeot PX-10, once upon a time nicely upgraded
with Phil Woods axles and BB. He is heavily into MTB, home-made electric
bikes and stuff and I have a hard time convincing him to fix up his road
bike. IOW, the bike doesn't need much other than new shifter handles, a
new freewheel and new tires. However, he doesn't want to put a lot of
effort and money into that.

The corn cob freewheels don't work in our hilly area for us, ahem, older
guys. What is the largest cog size a PX-10 can take without installing a
new derailer?

My old Shimano 600 was said to max out at 28T but I got it to easily
shift up to 32T by moving the wheel slightly forward in the dropout
slots. AFAIK that isn't possible on a PX-10 because it has short slots.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


Dude, its Phil Wood hubs and not Phil Woods "axles." Phil would be spinning in his grave.

The short answer is that the bike probably has a Simplex Prestige or LJ derailleur that will handle a 28t cog and maybe larger. You will have trouble finding a 5sp freewheel with a larger-than-28 cog. Its more common for 6sp to get into the 30t range.

Having been through this exercise with a PX10, a few points: (1) the derailleur hanger is French threaded and will not accept a modern derailleur. The hanger will have to be tapped to 10mm and filed for a b-adjuster, (2) it has 120mm spacing, and the stays will have to be spread to accommodate a modern 130mm hub if your pal wants to join the modern era. That is no big deal for a competent shop. I did that at home, but I also have dropout alignment tools. (3) Your pal is hosed when it comes to headsets unless he can find NOS French. Viola! https://www.amazon.com/Velo-Orange-T.../dp/B004JKGW9U He's also stuck with a 22.0mm OD stem, unless he can find NOS or wants to sand a new stem to 22.0mm. Don't ream the steerer. None of the bearings are standard size and neither is the DT if he wants to change his FD. The seatpost is probably 26.4 or some other odd size. If its the old Simplex seatpost, it also weighs about six pounds. The French went out of their way to m

ake their bikes incompatible with the rest of the world.

If I had an old PX10, I'd sell it to a collector and get a modern bike. Skip all the hassles.


"The French went out of their way to make their bikes incompatible with the rest of the world."



*ahem* That's SI = Systeme Internationale.

Named SI for two important reasons:
1. No one else uses it
2. They're French

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #10  
Old September 21st 18, 11:42 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Emanuel Berg[_2_]
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Posts: 1,035
Default Peugeot PX-10 max cog size?

AMuzi wrote:

*ahem* That's SI = Systeme Internationale.

Named SI for two important reasons:
1. No one else uses it
2. They're French


If so, there are many SIs, because:

The International System of Units (SI,
abbreviated from the French Système
international (d'unités)) is the modern
form of the metric system, and is the most
widely used system of measurement. [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intern...ystem_of_Units

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
 




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