Small lange vs. large flange hubs

You are overlooking the rims. Todays rims are heat treated, heavier,
mostly aero shaped. All make the rims & wheels stiffer. The older
rims were soft and needed more spokes to support them. So are todays
wheels any better? I'd say not really. The main result is fewer and
way tigher spokes. I'm fixing as many broken spokes as before. Plus
now you have these designer wheels that require special spokes or tools
that you may have to wait to be ordered in before your wheel gets fixed.

On 8/9/2005 11:50 AM wrote:

You are overlooking the rims. Todays rims are heat treated, heavier,
mostly aero shaped. All make the rims & wheels stiffer. The older
rims were soft and needed more spokes to support them. So are todays
wheels any better? I'd say not really. The main result is fewer and
way tigher spokes. I'm fixing as many broken spokes as before. Plus
now you have these designer wheels that require special spokes or tools
that you may have to wait to be ordered in before your wheel gets fixed.


Yeah, hey -- what's up with that? My wife entered into her very first
triathlon last month (came in dead last but for a 52 year-old
grandmother, she did pretty good). As the household handyman and
resident bike mechanic guy I gave her Specialized road bike (an Allez
Vita with Alexrims AT400 wheels, some kinda fancy black spokes) a good
going over. I went to do a smidge of wheel truing . . . and those
nipples were darn tight. The spoke wanted to turn with them. I applied a
bit of force, but the threads never slipped on the spokes. So I stopped
and reconsidered doing any truing at that time. I reckoned I'd ask
around at a later date. This is a later date, and hoping not to hijack
this thread . . . what's the scoop on working on these tight spokes?

--

Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
71 Type 2: the Wonderbus
84 Westfalia: Mellow Yellow ("The Electrical Banana")
KG6RCR

On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 14:31:45 -0700, Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott wrote:

what's the scoop on
working on these tight spokes?

Lube the nipples before attempting to true. I use whatever penetrating
lube I've got handy. Let sit for a minute or two to do its thing. Voila.

Michael Elliott writes:

Yeah, hey -- what's up with that? My wife entered into her very
first triathlon last month (came in dead last but for a 52 year-old
grandmother, she did pretty good). As the household handyman and
resident bike mechanic guy I gave her Specialized road bike (an
Allez Vita with Alexrims AT400 wheels, some kinda fancy black
spokes) a good going over. I went to do a smidge of wheel truing
... and those nipples were darn tight. The spoke wanted to turn
with them. I applied a bit of force, but the threads never slipped
on the spokes. So I stopped and reconsidered doing any truing at
that time. I reckoned I'd ask around at a later date. This is a
later date, and hoping not to hijack this thread ... what's the
scoop on working on these tight spokes?

30W motor oil is a good start. Put a drop on every spoke nipple where
it protrudes from the rim. You can feel it act if you rotate the
spoke nipple back and forth a small amount. It will suddenly turn
easily. Second, put a drop of oil on each spoke nipple where the
spoke enters. This will suck into the threads by capillary action and
allow turning the thread under load.

If at first a lubricated spoke nipple does not turn on the spoke
thread, pull the rim toward the side from which the spoke approaches
the rim (this slackens the spoke) and try twisting it fore and aft.

Finally, stay away from these wheels, they don't make a hill of beans
difference except for psychosomatics for less than 25mph time
trialers... but they cost an arm and a leg and are constant
maintenance mongers. If you break a spoke on the road, have a cell
phone! You're nor going to ride that wheel home as you would a 36
spoke wheel.

Jobst Brandt

On 8/9/2005 8:39 PM maxo wrote:

On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 14:31:45 -0700, Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott wrote:


what's the scoop on
working on these tight spokes?


Lube the nipples before attempting to true. I use whatever penetrating
lube I've got handy. Let sit for a minute or two to do its thing. Voila.


Maxo and Jobst, thanks.

One other question: are nipples coming in in exciting new sizes? It
seems that neither my black nor my green spoke wrench is a real good fit
for the nipples on her bike.

--

Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
71 Type 2: the Wonderbus
84 Westfalia: Mellow Yellow ("The Electrical Banana")
KG6RCR

On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 10:03:07 -0700, "Mike Rocket J. Squirrel
Elliott" m
wrote:

[snip]

One other question: are nipples coming in in exciting new sizes? It
seems that neither my black nor my green spoke wrench is a real good fit
for the nipples on her bike.

Dear Mike,

Spokes come in at least four colors--er, sizes:

SW-0 (Black handle) 3.22mm /80 ga./.127 nipple
SW-1 (Green handle) 3.3mm /80 ga./.130 nipple
SW-2 (Red handle) 3.45mm /80 ga./.136 nipple
SW-3 (Blue handle) 3.96mm /105 ga./.156 nipple

http://www.parktool.com/tools/SW_1.shtml

Carl Fogel

Mike Elliott writes:

what's the scoop on working on these tight spokes?

Lube the nipples before attempting to true. I use whatever
penetrating lube I've got handy. Let sit for a minute or two to do
its thing. Voila.

Maxo and Jobst, thanks.

One other question: are nipples coming in in exciting new sizes? It
seems that neither my black nor my green spoke wrench is a real good
fit for the nipples on her bike.

I guess I don't get enough "new" wheels, but my VAR steel slot jawed
spoke wrench fits closely and can twist off any spoke you like (when
tight enough). The wheels that I work on are not 16-spokes or Kevlar
spoked. The reason for spoke wrenches with four corners is that the
guys who make them never noticed that when they rounded spoke nipples
it was because they weren't lubricated... so more force to the rescue!

Slot jawed spoke wrenches have sufficed for years but then no one
seems to be passing along the tricks of the trade and those in the
business don't seem to read, there, where this information is
available.

Jobst Brandt

On 8/10/2005 10:18 AM wrote:

On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 10:03:07 -0700, "Mike Rocket J. Squirrel
Elliott" m
wrote:

[snip]


One other question: are nipples coming in in exciting new sizes? It
seems that neither my black nor my green spoke wrench is a real good fit
for the nipples on her bike.


Dear Mike,

Spokes come in at least four colors--er, sizes:

SW-0 (Black handle) 3.22mm /80 ga./.127 nipple
SW-1 (Green handle) 3.3mm /80 ga./.130 nipple
SW-2 (Red handle) 3.45mm /80 ga./.136 nipple
SW-3 (Blue handle) 3.96mm /105 ga./.156 nipple

Er . . . I meant neither my green nor my RED tool liked these nipples
very much. They mike at .135'', so that makes them "red flavored." I
reckon it was the softness of the nipple combined with the amazing
tightness of the spokes that gives me the feeling that I am going to
round the nipple.

--

Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
71 Type 2: the Wonderbus
84 Westfalia: Mellow Yellow ("The Electrical Banana")
KG6RCR

"Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott"
m wrote in message
...

Lube the nipples before attempting...

Always a good idea

Lee