Pulled Over By Police

On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 02:50:41 +0000, jobst.brandt wrote:

Friday I was coming home and there was some traffic. Motorists were
honking as usual. One actually honked and buzzed me when there was no
traffic. I just don't understand some people.

That's a good sign you are not riding well.

You have got to be joking. Do you seriously expect people that any fat
arse car driver knows more about riding a bicycle that someone whose arse
is actually on the bicycle seat.

I can hardly wait to hear what the ones whose passenger leans oout of the
window and tries to push you off indicates.


and it is obvious to motorists that a self
righteous statement is being made.

Is knowledge of the road rules pertaining to bicycles a must pass section
of the test for gaining a motor vehicle drivers license in your country?


I thin its better for you to ride SAFELY, rather than to project your
ineptitude on motorists.

Any chance you can stop doing that here?

wrote:

Just go ride bile

Freud on wheels?

Bill "Brooksie's Model" S.

Tom Keats wrote:

You made the right choice by riding where you would be noticed.
But I would recommend some way to keep a wether eye out for the
traffic behind you, like a mirror of some type.

"Fred" though it may sound, it looks a lot better than a body cast
or casket.

Compliments of: "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

If you want to E-mail me use: ChrisZCorner "at" webtv "dot" net

Ironically, mirrors are least-needed in an environment where is the
heaviest traffic, because it can be assumed somebody's riding up
your rear wheel. In other words, on a busy highway, the mirror
might help law enforcement figure out who ran you down (from the
imprinted image of the car on your retina), but beyond that, well,
if you're riding in the middle of the lane, on a busy highway, and
expect to have the mirror tell you something other than that
there's constantly a car behind you...

I used a mirror for a while, but found my ears, for my route, were
good enough. And, as mentioned, the mirror was most-useful on
less-traveled roads, where a car might get to sneak up on me. If I
was insane enough to use an iPod (both ears) while riding, yeah,
I'd need a mirror full time. And make sure my life insurance was
paid up.

My hearing is adequately acute, but it's non-directional. So if I
hear something, I often have to look around to see where the sound
is coming from.

I find mirrors quite helpful.

I thought you said you already heard the car. I find useful to make a
cursory head movement to look over the left shoulder, more to let the
motor vehicle know I am aware of its presence more than wanting 5to
look at it. This assures the driver that the bicyclist isn't about to
swerve out into the lane, knowing that a motor vehicle is passing.

Body language (riding a straight line close to the edge of the road)
is a courtesy a bicyclist can offer to make "sharing the road" a
reality, rather than just a sign we often see on narrow roads.
Unfortunately, bicyclists often think these signs are directed at
motorists rather than bicyclists.

Jobst Brandt

Mike Jarrells wrote:

I recently started training for my first Century. I started riding
my bicycle to work three days a week. It's about 15 miles one way.
It's a good ride, but the only legal route is a four lane that has a
55 mile per hour speed limit.

When I first started riding I would get pushed off of the road by
tractor trailers because I stayed too close to the curb. After
reading more about bicycle safety I now ride 3 to five feet from the
curb or in the middle of the lane if I have traffic on both sides.
Exiting and merging lanes force me into this position.

I think you have an unreal sense of how close vehicles can safely
pass and the "pushed off the road" is most likely a perception you
have from not understanding how traffic works. Training for a first
century ride is a clue to this. Just go ride bike and don't feel you
need to set records with an organized ride. You are probably not sure
you can ride, so you need mental back-up with a sag wagon and other
riders.

Thia is the bicyclist for whom all the road signs of "Share the Road"
are made, because they feel their rights are not being exerted enough.
The discussions go on endlessly here on wreck.bike.

Friday I was coming home and there was some traffic. Motorists were
honking as usual. One actually honked and buzzed me when there was no
traffic. I just don't understand some people.

That's a good sign you are not riding well. I have had that
experience a few times on roads where I never have contention, even
though there is no shoulder or even paving outside the edge stripe.
The honking and slicing occur when a "take the lane" rider joins me on
one of these routes. They ride conspicuously as much as three feet
farther into the lane than necessary, and it is obvious to motorists
that a self righteous statement is being made.

Near the end of my ride a police officer positioned himself behind
me and alerted me to stop using his siren and lights. When I pulled
over he called for backup which I thought was a little funny, but I
guess you never know who you're going to meet on the road. He said
he had received several calls stating that I was riding, "in the
middle of the road." I told the officer I was riding, "in the
middle of my lane" because that was the safest place for me to ride.
He responded that he could not tell me to stop riding because I was
riding legally, but he did ask me to be careful. I thanked him for
his concern and went on my way. I think I'm being as careful as I
can without reverting to my old behavior of driving my huge gas
guzzling car which some argue is actually more dangerous.

Oh yes, the police are the problem. I've heard it often from born
again bicyclists. Take the lane!

It seems that the motorists in my area are not educated on the
rights of bicyclists or how to share the road. I feel like I'm
helping to educate them, but I am a little concerned that one of
them may do something criminal because I inconvenience them by
forcing them to pass me.

Righteous!

This bicycling thing is a little tougher than I thought. It's not
the exercise, but the people that makes it tough. You just don't
know who you'll meet on the road.

Oh oh! "For WHO the Bell Tolls". Where did you go to grade school?

Please ride safe.

I think its better for you to ride SAFELY, rather than to project your
ineptitude on motorists.

Jobst Brandt

In article ,
writes:
Tom Keats wrote:

You made the right choice by riding where you would be noticed.
But I would recommend some way to keep a wether eye out for the
traffic behind you, like a mirror of some type.

"Fred" though it may sound, it looks a lot better than a body cast
or casket.

Compliments of: "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

If you want to E-mail me use: ChrisZCorner "at" webtv "dot" net

Ironically, mirrors are least-needed in an environment where is the
heaviest traffic, because it can be assumed somebody's riding up
your rear wheel. In other words, on a busy highway, the mirror
might help law enforcement figure out who ran you down (from the
imprinted image of the car on your retina), but beyond that, well,
if you're riding in the middle of the lane, on a busy highway, and
expect to have the mirror tell you something other than that
there's constantly a car behind you...

I used a mirror for a while, but found my ears, for my route, were
good enough. And, as mentioned, the mirror was most-useful on
less-traveled roads, where a car might get to sneak up on me. If I
was insane enough to use an iPod (both ears) while riding, yeah,
I'd need a mirror full time. And make sure my life insurance was
paid up.

My hearing is adequately acute, but it's non-directional. So if I
hear something, I often have to look around to see where the sound
is coming from.

I find mirrors quite helpful.

I thought you said you already heard the car. I find useful to make a
cursory head movement to look over the left shoulder, more to let the
motor vehicle know I am aware of its presence more than wanting 5to
look at it. This assures the driver that the bicyclist isn't about to
swerve out into the lane, knowing that a motor vehicle is passing.

Yes, I find shoulder-checking useful for the reasons you describe.
I do not entirely rely upon my handlebar mirror, but use it as a
supplement. And when I'm hauling my trailer, an occasional glance
in the mirror reassures me that the lid is still on it, and the
contents aren't spilling out all over the road.

An erstwhile regular poster here (Eric Sande) once maintained that
by using a mirror, a rider would develop a dependence upon it.
I've put that notion to the test, and I can assert that I still
shoulder-check. Especially since I've been passed so many times
by fellow riders thatI didn't notice in the mirror because they
were in the blind spot when they were behind me. So I not only
know not to entirely trust mirrors, but /why/ to not trust them.
I note how good drivers don't trust their mirrors either -- they
shoulder-check before making lane changes or otherwise deviating
from their line of travel.

Body language (riding a straight line close to the edge of the road)
is a courtesy a bicyclist can offer to make "sharing the road" a
reality, rather than just a sign we often see on narrow roads.
Unfortunately, bicyclists often think these signs are directed at
motorists rather than bicyclists.

I concur.

As for narrow roads, I frequently ride on streets so narrow,
thanks in large part to on-street parking, that two vehicles
cannot pass each other unless one pulls over to let the other
through. A glance in the mirror lets me know there's a driver
behind me wanting to get through. I pull over at my first
opportunity and let him or her through, and more often than not
I get an appreciative acknowlegement wave from the driver.
Unless there's another bike rider there who just ~has~ to greedily
shoot through, thread the needle, and ruin what would have been a
nice and civil interaction between fellow street users. That really
irritates me, because I understand how those drivers are already
trepidatiously tiptoeing through tight spots, without needing some
jerk on a bike making things even worse for them.

When I pull over on those narrow streets, into spaces between
parked cars, I don't even have to completely stop or put a
foot down. I don't lose anything. It's no sacrifice to sociably
let other traffic go.

Heck, when traffic flows, all is well. I've learned that it's
when traffic is held up that trouble ensues. As I've previously
said, traffic is a mobile, dynamic community. I like making my
own contribution of community spirit toward it. I often like
being part of a big Us instead of little Me. I suppose it's
difficult to believe, but nevertheless Vancouver's Critical
Mass rides are actually conducive toward celebrating the
communityness of traffic. Much more so than a bunch of drivers
being stopped by a train at a level crossing. Especially if the
train is back-&-forthing, bucking cars into a railroad yard.

By the way, I've learned it doesn't hurt to shoulder-check
on the other side, too. Last summer when gasoline prices
were so high, I had a number of hell-bent-for-leather riders
squeezing by me on my right.

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 18:17:46 -0800 in rec.bicycles.misc, "Mike
Jacoubowsky" wrote:

I used a mirror for a while, but found my ears, for my route, were good
enough.

Well, that's fine for you. I've found mine indispensable, and I
now feel blind without it.

Just because you don't find it useful doesn't mean others
shouldn't try one.

On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 22:09:42 -0800 in rec.bicycles.misc,
(Tom Keats) wrote:

Especially since I've been passed so many times
by fellow riders thatI didn't notice in the mirror because they
were in the blind spot when they were behind me.

No blind spot with my helmet mirror '^)

terryc wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 02:50:41 +0000, jobst.brandt wrote:

Friday I was coming home and there was some traffic. Motorists were
honking as usual. One actually honked and buzzed me when there was no
traffic. I just don't understand some people.
That's a good sign you are not riding well.

You have got to be joking. Do you seriously expect people that any fat
arse car driver knows more about riding a bicycle that someone whose arse
is actually on the bicycle seat.


I'm not with you here. Just because you have 'rights' doesn't mean you
should assert them to the detriment of the others on the road. Like it
or not, but we SHARE the road with cagers.

What would the cagers do if another cager was going the same speed as
you do down that 55 mph roadway? They'd probably be more aggressive and
assertive than they are with you. So you are being extended
extraordinary courtesy. Even if you are content to be going 15 mph or so
in a 55 mph zone (where others wish to go 60 mph or more) doesn't mean
that it's courteous for you to force a 15 mph speed in 1/3 of the
roadway. Worse, you are creating a hazard to yourself and to others as
they come up on you, need to slow, then they pull out to pass you
causing all sorts of traffic disruptions.

We are in a PR battle here. We are fighting for not only acceptance from
cagers but wish them to join us. Guys like you do more damage than I can
say here to both those ends.

"Dennis P. Harris" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 18:17:46 -0800 in rec.bicycles.misc, "Mike
Jacoubowsky" wrote:

I used a mirror for a while, but found my ears, for my route, were
good
enough.

Well, that's fine for you. I've found mine indispensable, and I
now feel blind without it.

Just because you don't find it useful doesn't mean others
shouldn't try one.

I didn't say others shouldn't try them. I said for my routes, I didn't
need one. However, I feel some imply that you're not safe riding without
a mirror, and I don't feel that's the case. If you feel better with a
mirror, by all means, use a mirror. For what it's worth, I'd probably be
inclined to use a mirror if I was riding in an environment that was
dense with bikes, especially if some of them might be faster than me. On
the other hand, maybe not. If I'm riding at a reasonable speed, in a
predictable manner, there's no reason I should have to move out of the
way for a cyclist overtaking me from behind.

The greatest dangers on the road I face are cars overtaking me to make a
right turn, and cars in the opposite direction making a left turn in
front of me. The car overtaking me, so far, has not been an issue
because cars make noise when they accelerate. In fact, cars make noise
whenever they do most dumb anti-cyclist things, whether engine or tires.

When electric cars become the norm, and drivers in them aggressive, THEN
I can seriously see myself riding with a mirror again.

Remember, this is all about me. What makes other people comfortable will
be different. I just don't want to see this (mirrors) added to the
mandatory list of things you must have or else you're not cycling
safely.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

On Jan 12, 9:48*am, slide wrote:


I'm not with you here. Just because you have 'rights' doesn't mean you
should assert them to the detriment of the others on the road. Like it
or not, but we SHARE the road with cagers.

Just because you have rights doesn't mean you should assert them???
Damn! So much for voting, free speech, free press... and I guess I'll
just have to hope the local air base doesn't demand to quarter some
servicemen in my house!


What would the cagers do if another cager was going the same speed as
you do down that 55 mph roadway? They'd probably be more aggressive and
assertive than they are with you. So you are being extended
extraordinary courtesy. Even if you are content to be going 15 mph or so
in a 55 mph zone (where others wish to go 60 mph or more) doesn't mean
that it's courteous for you to force a 15 mph speed in 1/3 of the
roadway.

In my rural road riding, I've seen many examples of farm tractors
moving from field to field on 55 mph roads. Also, we have a very
large Amish population within my riding area, and they travel by buggy
on those same roads. I ride faster than the latter, and have enjoyed
drafting the former. Should their rights to the road also be removed?

55 mph is an upper speed limit, not a lower speed limit.

Worse, you are creating a hazard to yourself and to others as
they come up on you, need to slow, then they pull out to pass you
causing all sorts of traffic disruptions.

I have no sympathy for such handwringing arguments. By some
standards, I am "creating a hazard to myself" any time I balance on a
bicycle - or, for that matter, walk down the stairs. But when I ride
among motor vehicles, the hazard comes from them, not from me.
Arguing otherwise is like telling pedestrians they should never cross
the street.

Motorists are legally bound to operate in a manner that's safe for
others. We should not be working to reduce their responsibility.

We are in a PR battle here. We are fighting for not only acceptance from
cagers but wish them to join us. Guys like you do more damage than I can
say here to both those ends.

I agree we are fighting a PR battle. Unfortunately, I think the
"never inconvenience a motorist" crew are fighting for the wrong side.

Our society has done far too much to make the world as convenient as
possible for motorists. We've already built much of America so it's
impossible to simply walk anywhere, even to buy a loaf of bread. We
don't need to add the prohibition to never ride a bike if it will
delay a motorist.

Let me be clear about a few things: First, for aesthetic reasons, I
prefer cycling on roads with less traffic. But there are many
situations where I must ride on a busier road. I have a legal right
to do that, and nobody has a right to tell me I must use a car to get
to destinations on such a road.

Second, I _do_ share the lane whenever it's safe. Like Forester, I
sometimes share lanes that I'm sure other cyclists would not. On
occasion, I've pulled over to let cars pass. But if, in my expert
judgment, it's unsafe to share a lane with a passing vehicle, I will
not put myself in danger to save some motorist a few seconds. His
desire to catch one more commercial on TV does not trump my legal
right to the road.

Third, I've remember having the experience of the OP, where riding too
close to the edge generated unsafely close passes; and I remember when
I first learned to fix that by moving left so the motorists were
forced to use the next lane, and even (gasp!) occasionally wait a few
seconds to pass. I have friends who learned about this from me, and
praised the difference it made in their riding. Most motorists
understand the situation and are fine with it. The few that don't are
probably irritated about everything in life anyway; kowtowing to them
won't make them significantly happier.

Politeness is good. Deferring to others by putting yourself in danger
is bad. So is relinquishing your right to the road.

- Frank Krygowski