Michelin Power Endurance Tires

On 2017-10-25 10:50, Doug Landau wrote:
On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 10:42:59 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-10-25 10:38, Doug Landau wrote:

[...]


... As I said before yes the conti sidewalls will suffer in the
summer sun, but a little black gasket sealer will keep that at
bay until you wear it out.


I am not planning on having to correct mistakes a manufacturer made
on products that are expensive to begin with. Then I simply walk
away from the product, as I did here.

Are you kidding?!? You spend more time correcting manufacturer's
mistakes than anybody. Including mistakes that multiple
manufacturers collude upon. Hell together they either can't or won't
produce a mr tuffy that you don't say has to be wrapped like a
bageldog to work


Put one in a MTB rear tire, ride lots of rocky trails and look at the
tube after a few thousand miles. You will be unpleasantly surprised.
_Then_ voice an opinion.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2017-10-25 21:51, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/25/2017 8:25 PM, James wrote:


Riding to the left of the fog line (right for the USians), where all
the glass and rubbish gets deposited by the passing of motor vehicles,
also multiplies your chances of getting a puncture.

Indeed. Last year or the year before, on one long (for me) ride I like
to do occasionally, I was on a fairly busy highway. A truck came up
behind me not long before my left turn onto a quieter road. I thought "I
can take the lane, but he'll have to slow down before that hill. I'll
give him a break and move to the shoulder."

I was rewarded with a flat tire. As they say, no good deed goes
unpunished.


That is where thick tubes plus liner plus fairly puncture resistant
tires excel. They also let you continue the journey when that dreaded
sign "Pavement ends 200ft" comes up and the road ahead looks like nobody
has maintained it in decades. I used one of those twice yesterday, a
chunk of the old Lincoln Highway, abandoned decades ago. The lanes are
still Model-T width and lots of debris strewn about, smashed booze
bottles and such.

https://www.villagelife.com/files/20...EB-300x400.jpg

Yo, Frank, any words of wisdom from the ME in you on the 160 - 203mm
rotor increase in the other thread? I've posted photos of the current
caliper mounts.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 7:44:24 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-10-25 10:50, Doug Landau wrote:
On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 10:42:59 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-10-25 10:38, Doug Landau wrote:

[...]


... As I said before yes the conti sidewalls will suffer in the
summer sun, but a little black gasket sealer will keep that at
bay until you wear it out.


I am not planning on having to correct mistakes a manufacturer made
on products that are expensive to begin with. Then I simply walk
away from the product, as I did here.

Are you kidding?!? You spend more time correcting manufacturer's
mistakes than anybody. Including mistakes that multiple
manufacturers collude upon. Hell together they either can't or won't
produce a mr tuffy that you don't say has to be wrapped like a
bageldog to work


Put one in a MTB rear tire, ride lots of rocky trails and look at the
tube after a few thousand miles. You will be unpleasantly surprised.
_Then_ voice an opinion.

When I installed the tube in the Power Endurance it was pretty difficult. There was minimal talc on the tube if any. Maybe the tube companies are spooked by the latest loonie research suggesting that talc can cause cancer spurring lawsuits against J & J that has sold talcum powder for 125 years.

When I was changing the punctured tube out it was abraded by the tire. Not horribly so but this only has 100 miles on it.

On 10/26/2017 10:58 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-10-25 21:51, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/25/2017 8:25 PM, James wrote:


Riding to the left of the fog line (right for the USians), where all
the glass and rubbish gets deposited by the passing of motor vehicles,
also multiplies your chances of getting a puncture.

Indeed. Last year or the year before, on one long (for me) ride I like
to do occasionally, I was on a fairly busy highway. A truck came up
behind me not long before my left turn onto a quieter road. I thought "I
can take the lane, but he'll have to slow down before that hill. I'll
give him a break and move to the shoulder."

I was rewarded with a flat tire.Â* As they say, no good deed goes
unpunished.


That is where thick tubes plus liner plus fairly puncture resistant
tires excel.

I'm sure they help, but I'm also sure I don't want to put up with the
additional rolling resistance. I normally ride the portions of the road
swept clear of debris by traffic. I get just a few flats per year, far
too few to bother with any changes that slow me down. Heck, I'm plenty
slow already.

They also let you continue the journey when that dreaded
sign "Pavement ends 200ft" comes up and the road ahead looks like nobody
has maintained it in decades.

I use gravel roads and forest tracks from time to time. Actually, my
last flat was during a ride in our local forest preserve. I was on my
about-town utility 3 speed bike, and made a spur-of-the-moment decision
to cruise the back trails to check on downed trees. The flat was a pinch
flat, not a puncture, and entirely my fault. I knew my tires (1 1/4")
were a bit low.

Yo, Frank, any words of wisdom from the ME in you on the 160 - 203mm
rotor increase in the other thread? I've posted photos of the current
caliper mounts.

Just what I already wrote: I don't think you'll have any problems. AFAIK
most of the cautions about discs and forks apply to installing a disc on
a road fork not designed for the additional stresses.

Yours is a mountain bike suspension fork. It can certainly handle the
imposed moments. But your dropouts and quick release are a potential
problem, as you've already realized.

The mounting posts could, I suppose, be a concern; but I don't
anticipate problems. If you're worried about your mounting posts taking
additional stress, perhaps you could get in the habit of inspecting
them. Watch for cracks at the bottom where the posts stick out of the
main body of the fork.

But this is free advice, done without much computation. It comes with no
warranty.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 10/26/2017 10:24 AM, wrote:
On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 2:27:58 AM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 3:50:31 PM UTC-7, wrote:
I picked up a piece of glass today and got a flat on my third ride on this tire. I didn't get any flats on the Pro4 Endurance though some people say that they cut easily.

The Pro4 Endurance tire rolled really easily - something that the Power Endurance doesn't seem to do. Though that could simply be personal opinion.

I'm selling a set of wheels and they have Specialized Armadillos on them. They did not have more than possibly 500 miles on them and showed a lot of wear. While looking at them one of them had a real long cut but still no flat. These are VERY expensive tires.

But the flat I got today I'm sure I would not have gotten on a Continental Gatorskin.

So it appears that Continental is still the uncontested king of flat-proof tires.

That's disappointing to hear. I don't think my Pro4 Endurance are that tough, but they are certainly more flat-proof than Pro4 Service Course. The version II of the Pro4 Endurance supposedly had lower rolling resistance than version I of the Service Course. The Endurance was a pretty fast tire. You have to wonder why they fooled with it. I don't think Gatorskins or 4Seasons have changed in ten years. Conti has not seen a need to constantly fiddle with them, although like Joerg said, they might want to re-think the sidewalls.

I hope not if it means increasing rolling resistance. If you don't want flats or side wall cuts in case you hit a rock use Schwalbe marathon plus tires and accept the weight penalty and increase in rolling resistance instead of demanding sturdier side walls of high performance tires.

The worry about sidewall cuts surprises me. I get them so seldom they're
not even a concern. That's despite regular brief excursions on gravel,
using Paselas, or Gatorskins, or Schwalbe Marathons, depending on the bike.

Long ago I had some sidewall bubbles (not cuts) in Continental touring
tires, but I think that's a different problem entirely.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 7:44:24 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-10-25 10:50, Doug Landau wrote:
On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 10:42:59 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-10-25 10:38, Doug Landau wrote:

[...]


... As I said before yes the conti sidewalls will suffer in the
summer sun, but a little black gasket sealer will keep that at
bay until you wear it out.


I am not planning on having to correct mistakes a manufacturer made
on products that are expensive to begin with. Then I simply walk
away from the product, as I did here.

Are you kidding?!? You spend more time correcting manufacturer's
mistakes than anybody. Including mistakes that multiple
manufacturers collude upon. Hell together they either can't or won't
produce a mr tuffy that you don't say has to be wrapped like a
bageldog to work


Put one in a MTB rear tire, ride lots of rocky trails and look at the
tube after a few thousand miles. You will be unpleasantly surprised.
_Then_ voice an opinion.

I already did so 25 years ago and will not be surprised and have already voiced my opinion. I told you here before you tried them that mr tuffys out of the box will chafe a hole in your tube.

I didn't say you are wrong to correct manufacturer's mistakes, I said you are wrong when you said you won't. And won't plan to. Now take a new gatorskin, take a tube of Permatex #2 or other black automotive gasket sealer, and a latex glove, and run a thin layer over the sidewalls, and tell us how that worked out six months later.

On 2017-10-26 09:48, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/26/2017 10:58 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-10-25 21:51, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/25/2017 8:25 PM, James wrote:


Riding to the left of the fog line (right for the USians), where all
the glass and rubbish gets deposited by the passing of motor vehicles,
also multiplies your chances of getting a puncture.

Indeed. Last year or the year before, on one long (for me) ride I like
to do occasionally, I was on a fairly busy highway. A truck came up
behind me not long before my left turn onto a quieter road. I thought "I
can take the lane, but he'll have to slow down before that hill. I'll
give him a break and move to the shoulder."

I was rewarded with a flat tire. As they say, no good deed goes
unpunished.


That is where thick tubes plus liner plus fairly puncture resistant
tires excel.

I'm sure they help, but I'm also sure I don't want to put up with the
additional rolling resistance. I normally ride the portions of the road
swept clear of debris by traffic.


Yesterday I saw a new sign on Leidesdorff Street in Folsom "Bicyclists
may use full lane". Only for a few hundred feet because it's part of the
new "Johnny Cash Bike Trail" but there you would not get a ticket.


... I get just a few flats per year, far
too few to bother with any changes that slow me down. Heck, I'm plenty
slow already.

They also let you continue the journey when that dreaded sign
"Pavement ends 200ft" comes up and the road ahead looks like nobody
has maintained it in decades.

I use gravel roads and forest tracks from time to time. Actually, my
last flat was during a ride in our local forest preserve. I was on my
about-town utility 3 speed bike, and made a spur-of-the-moment decision
to cruise the back trails to check on downed trees. The flat was a pinch
flat, not a puncture, and entirely my fault. I knew my tires (1 1/4")
were a bit low.


The difference is that you guys do not have goat's head thorns. Those
can even puncture a car tire. Last week I met three other MTB riders on
the El Dorado trail. Two (!) of them had green slime oozing from their
front tires half way up to Placerville.


Yo, Frank, any words of wisdom from the ME in you on the 160 - 203mm
rotor increase in the other thread? I've posted photos of the current
caliper mounts.

Just what I already wrote: I don't think you'll have any problems. AFAIK
most of the cautions about discs and forks apply to installing a disc on
a road fork not designed for the additional stresses.

Yours is a mountain bike suspension fork. It can certainly handle the
imposed moments. But your dropouts and quick release are a potential
problem, as you've already realized.

The mounting posts could, I suppose, be a concern; but I don't
anticipate problems. If you're worried about your mounting posts taking
additional stress, perhaps you could get in the habit of inspecting
them. Watch for cracks at the bottom where the posts stick out of the
main body of the fork.


I'd agree, just wanted to hear a 2nd opinion. So I just ordered the
adapters. The bike gets inspected by me before every ride and that
includes the caliper area. To make sure there are no leaks and such. I'd
see a cracking post.

Now I have to find good rotors. The Shimamno RT66 looks quite ok unless
I can find a solid disc somewhere (has become tough).

http://www.jensonusa.com/Shimano-RT6...sc-Brake-Rotor


But this is free advice, done without much computation. It comes with no
warranty.


Thanks. I'll send the health care folks to you if it results in a bad
prang :-)

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2017-10-26 08:06, wrote:
On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 7:44:24 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-10-25 10:50, Doug Landau wrote:
On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 10:42:59 AM UTC-7, Joerg
wrote:
On 2017-10-25 10:38, Doug Landau wrote:

[...]


... As I said before yes the conti sidewalls will suffer in
the summer sun, but a little black gasket sealer will keep
that at bay until you wear it out.


I am not planning on having to correct mistakes a manufacturer
made on products that are expensive to begin with. Then I
simply walk away from the product, as I did here.

Are you kidding?!? You spend more time correcting
manufacturer's mistakes than anybody. Including mistakes that
multiple manufacturers collude upon. Hell together they either
can't or won't produce a mr tuffy that you don't say has to be
wrapped like a bageldog to work


Put one in a MTB rear tire, ride lots of rocky trails and look at
the tube after a few thousand miles. You will be unpleasantly
surprised. _Then_ voice an opinion.

When I installed the tube in the Power Endurance it was pretty
difficult. There was minimal talc on the tube if any. Maybe the tube
companies are spooked by the latest loonie research suggesting that
talc can cause cancer spurring lawsuits against J & J that has sold
talcum powder for 125 years.


That ambulance chaser ad is on TV several times a week during the news.
Those ads are disgusting.

I always have a small bottle of talc in the "bike medicine cabinet" in
the garage.


When I was changing the punctured tube out it was abraded by the
tire. Not horribly so but this only has 100 miles on it.


I was shocked how deep the chafing grooves from the tire liner were on
my MTB. The tubes are 0.160" thick and on a regular thin tube it would
have gone through a long time ago. Now I have a sacrificial regular but
good quality tube into which I sleeved the liner. Removed the valve,
made a cut just wide enough and punched round holes at its end so the
cut won't proliferate. That cut points towards the running surface of
the tire.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2017-10-26 10:07, Doug Landau wrote:
On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 7:44:24 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-10-25 10:50, Doug Landau wrote:
On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 10:42:59 AM UTC-7, Joerg
wrote:
On 2017-10-25 10:38, Doug Landau wrote:

[...]


... As I said before yes the conti sidewalls will suffer in
the summer sun, but a little black gasket sealer will keep
that at bay until you wear it out.


I am not planning on having to correct mistakes a manufacturer
made on products that are expensive to begin with. Then I
simply walk away from the product, as I did here.

Are you kidding?!? You spend more time correcting
manufacturer's mistakes than anybody. Including mistakes that
multiple manufacturers collude upon. Hell together they either
can't or won't produce a mr tuffy that you don't say has to be
wrapped like a bageldog to work


Put one in a MTB rear tire, ride lots of rocky trails and look at
the tube after a few thousand miles. You will be unpleasantly
surprised. _Then_ voice an opinion.

I already did so 25 years ago and will not be surprised and have
already voiced my opinion. I told you here before you tried them
that mr tuffys out of the box will chafe a hole in your tube.

I didn't say you are wrong to correct manufacturer's mistakes, I said
you are wrong when you said you won't. And won't plan to. Now take
a new gatorskin, take a tube of Permatex #2 or other black automotive
gasket sealer, and a latex glove, and run a thin layer over the
sidewalls, and tell us how that worked out six months later.


So what's next? Build your won tire? There comes a limit and there is no
need to buy expensive tires with poorly design side walls. Because you
can buy tires with better side walls. Which I am now doing. With tire
liners there is no such option, with tires there is.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2017-10-26 09:56, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/26/2017 10:24 AM, wrote:
On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 2:27:58 AM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 3:50:31 PM UTC-7,
wrote:
I picked up a piece of glass today and got a flat on my third ride
on this tire. I didn't get any flats on the Pro4 Endurance though
some people say that they cut easily.

The Pro4 Endurance tire rolled really easily - something that the
Power Endurance doesn't seem to do. Though that could simply be
personal opinion.

I'm selling a set of wheels and they have Specialized Armadillos on
them. They did not have more than possibly 500 miles on them and
showed a lot of wear. While looking at them one of them had a real
long cut but still no flat. These are VERY expensive tires.

But the flat I got today I'm sure I would not have gotten on a
Continental Gatorskin.

So it appears that Continental is still the uncontested king of
flat-proof tires.

That's disappointing to hear. I don't think my Pro4 Endurance are
that tough, but they are certainly more flat-proof than Pro4 Service
Course. The version II of the Pro4 Endurance supposedly had lower
rolling resistance than version I of the Service Course. The
Endurance was a pretty fast tire. You have to wonder why they fooled
with it. I don't think Gatorskins or 4Seasons have changed in ten
years. Conti has not seen a need to constantly fiddle with them,
although like Joerg said, they might want to re-think the sidewalls.

I hope not if it means increasing rolling resistance. If you don't
want flats or side wall cuts in case you hit a rock use Schwalbe
marathon plus tires and accept the weight penalty and increase in
rolling resistance instead of demanding sturdier side walls of high
performance tires.

The worry about sidewall cuts surprises me. I get them so seldom they're
not even a concern. That's despite regular brief excursions on gravel,
using Paselas, or Gatorskins, or Schwalbe Marathons, depending on the bike.

Long ago I had some sidewall bubbles (not cuts) in Continental touring
tires, but I think that's a different problem entirely.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7VR3jdwZ3k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vOQQISgIjs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEUYW7LNgw4

Some of their other series seem to have side wall blows as well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiPBo0hdrvA

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/