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#11
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Before & after bike ghettos
On Sep 29, 10:10 pm, Tim McNamara wrote:
In article , Tom Sherman °_° wrote: On 9/29/2010 9:45 PM, Chalo Colina wrote: Frank Krygowski wrote: I see plenty of motorists charging through a "stale yellow" red light, but I almost never see one completely disregard a light that's been red for more than a second or two. Yet I've often seen bicyclists do [this]. I often observe cyclists doing what I usually to at a red light. If there is cross traffic, I wait. When the cross traffic clears, I go. This limits my exposure to car traffic and often allows waiting motorists to safely turn right without expending their feeble computation power determining whether I will leap into their path. When a motorist is permitted (or even required) to turn across the right of way of a cyclist, conflicts inevitably arise. I believe the best method to resolve these conflicts would be to have a clear precedence of rights of way: peds first, then cyclists, then motorists. There should be a presumption of fault for the cyclist in a ped-cyclist collision, and a presumption of fault for the motorist in a ped-car or cyclist-car collision. That would help keep people honest and careful, and it would be ethically defensible. Chalo is incorrect about pedestrians. Sheep are more intelligent and predictable that the average pedestrian. Pedestrians should be assumed to be at fault in collisions with cyclists, especially since the greater danger is to the cyclists (at least if he/she is riding a bicycle that permits the rider to be pitched over the bars onto his/her head). I've had multiple experiences of pedestrians stepping right in front of me if I call "on your left" (they seem to think I am telling them to go left, that I am pointing out some significant scenic feature or making some kind of political statement). "Passing on your left" doesn't work any better. I just pass 'em silently these days. An "audible warning" is required by law here when approaching pedestrians on the sidewalk. I call out, "Here comes bike!" |
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#12
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Before & after bike ghettos
On Sep 30, 2:31 pm, Coolmaine wrote:
On Sep 30, 3:45 am, Chalo wrote: When a motorist is permitted (or even required) to turn across the right of way of a cyclist, conflicts inevitably arise. I believe the best method to resolve these conflicts would be to have a clear precedence of rights of way: peds first, then cyclists, then motorists. There should be a presumption of fault for the cyclist in a ped-cyclist collision, and a presumption of fault for the motorist in a ped-car or cyclist-car collision. That would help keep people honest and careful, and it would be ethically defensible. That's too much common sense for most people to understand. But, for the record, I believe that a fully implemented law or regulation of that nature is the biggest possible boost a bike culture could be given, far greater than building any number of bike lanes. The agreeable and efficient bike culture of The Netherlands and Denmark are based as much on attitudes and outlooks as on facilities. http://groups.google.com/group/rando...e9a15e07?hl=en |
#13
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Before & after bike ghettos
On 9/29/2010 10:45 PM, Chalo wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote: I see plenty of motorists charging through a "stale yellow" red light, but I almost never see one completely disregard a light that's been red for more than a second or two. Yet I've often seen bicyclists do [this]. I often observe cyclists doing what I usually to at a red light. If there is cross traffic, I wait. When the cross traffic clears, I go. This limits my exposure to car traffic and often allows waiting motorists to safely turn right without expending their feeble computation power determining whether I will leap into their path. When a motorist is permitted (or even required) to turn across the right of way of a cyclist, conflicts inevitably arise. I believe the best method to resolve these conflicts would be to have a clear precedence of rights of way: peds first, then cyclists, then motorists. There should be a presumption of fault for the cyclist in a ped-cyclist collision, and a presumption of fault for the motorist in a ped-car or cyclist-car collision. That would help keep people honest and careful, and it would be ethically defensible. Chalo From: http://transalt.org/files/newsroom/r...tive_Order.pdf “Getting in a car, you have to understand that you’re driving this huge thing that kills people. And then to do something stupid like put your foot on the gas and to call it an accident? It’s just crazy. It is an accident; you didn’t want to do it. But once you’re driving a car, you just have to understand the consequences of what you’re doing. You’re responsible when you’re driving. But without intent you can’t really charge people with homicide,” says Peter Moskos, a former Police Officer and professor of Criminal Justice at John Jay College. “Drivers should be charged with being careless. People do careless stuff -- like talking on their cell phone -- because they don‘t take driving seriously. There’s lots of careless behavior while driving. The question is what careless behavior led to someone dying. But there is always something.” (NYC) "During the last fifteen years, from 1994-2008, there have been only 29 indictments of drivers under the charge of Criminally Negligent Homicide, despite thousands of cyclists and pedestrians killed during that period. Are the current laws for prosecuting dangerous drivers adequate? Is justice an option when a driver kills with their car?" "In the city of New York, in the year 2007, there were 64,000 reported crashes involving automobiles exclusively and 112 reported fatalities In the city of New York, in the year 2007, there were 14,000 reported crashes involving an automobile and a pedestrian or cyclist and 160 reported fatalities" "It is a constant and unfortunate truth that District Attorneys in New York are operating from a default perspective that only under a very limited, narrow set of circumstances should a case be pursued when someone is killed by a car. They adhere to narrow interpretations of relevant case law to help guide them in determining what a prosecutable case is, and are often unwilling to examine the totality of the circumstances in each specific crash which contributed to the fatality. Despite the vulnerability of road users not incased in steel, in the case of a traffic fatality in New York City, vulnerable users of the road are infinitely less likely to have their killers prosecuted than any other fatality that results from the actions of another human being." |
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Before & after bike ghettos
On Sep 30, 5:31*pm, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Sep 30, 2:25*pm, Jay Beattie wrote: On Sep 29, 9:14*pm, Frank Krygowski wrote: On Sep 29, 11:57*pm, Jay Beattie wrote: **The students at PSU (which borders the dreaded bicycle chute on Broadway)... I thought the "dreaded bicycle chute" was on the Park blocks. Can you give more details? It is slightly east of the Park blocks on Broadway, starting at about SW Columbia. *Here is a picture. http://www.flickr.com/photos/2803183...n/photostream/ That is PSU to the right, and all the students get out of class and wander in to the bike lane, between the curb and parked cars. *This is a light traffic period. *The cars turning right at the stop light hook cyclists because they are hidden by the parked cars. This is looking south on Broadway before you get to the chute.http://www.flickr.com/photos/bikepor...n/photostream/ another one further northhttp://www.flickr.com/photos/bikeportland/3840548992/in/photostream/ It's not all that long, but it was offered up as the practically mandatory alternative to SW 5th, which got cut up by mass transit. The bike lane on that street is like running the gauntlet.http://www.flickr.com/photos/35021226@N02/4519517836/ In that picture, note where the blue streetcar is located at a stop. Look to the right and see how the bike lane goes up the curb and straight in to all the people on the sidewalk migrating to the stop. It then emerges down the curb and across where all the tracks are turning. From above http://www.flickr.com/photos/4791190...n/photostream/ Same deal, different street.http://www.flickr.com/photos/sfcityscape/ 4997557623/ * *-- Jay Beattie. Fixed photo link:http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesbondsv/4576631293/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/35021226@N02/4519517836/ Thanks. I was in Portland a while ago and planned to examine those facilities. Unfortunately, I misunderstood where they were. - Frank Krygowski |
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