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Before & after bike ghettos



 
 
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  #11  
Old October 1st 10, 02:52 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc
Dan O
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Posts: 6,098
Default Before & after bike ghettos

On Sep 29, 10:10 pm, Tim McNamara wrote:
In article ,
Tom Sherman °_° wrote:



On 9/29/2010 9:45 PM, Chalo Colina wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:


I see plenty of motorists charging through a "stale yellow" red
light, but I almost never see one completely disregard a light
that's been red for more than a second or two. Yet I've often
seen bicyclists do [this].


I often observe cyclists doing what I usually to at a red light.
If there is cross traffic, I wait. When the cross traffic clears,
I go. This limits my exposure to car traffic and often allows
waiting motorists to safely turn right without expending their
feeble computation power determining whether I will leap into their
path.


When a motorist is permitted (or even required) to turn across the
right of way of a cyclist, conflicts inevitably arise. I believe
the best method to resolve these conflicts would be to have a clear
precedence of rights of way: peds first, then cyclists, then
motorists. There should be a presumption of fault for the cyclist
in a ped-cyclist collision, and a presumption of fault for the
motorist in a ped-car or cyclist-car collision. That would help
keep people honest and careful, and it would be ethically
defensible.


Chalo is incorrect about pedestrians. Sheep are more intelligent and
predictable that the average pedestrian. Pedestrians should be
assumed to be at fault in collisions with cyclists, especially since
the greater danger is to the cyclists (at least if he/she is riding a
bicycle that permits the rider to be pitched over the bars onto
his/her head).


I've had multiple experiences of pedestrians stepping right in front of
me if I call "on your left" (they seem to think I am telling them to go
left, that I am pointing out some significant scenic feature or making
some kind of political statement). "Passing on your left" doesn't work
any better. I just pass 'em silently these days.


An "audible warning" is required by law here when approaching
pedestrians on the sidewalk. I call out, "Here comes bike!"
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  #12  
Old October 1st 10, 03:04 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc
Dan O
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Posts: 6,098
Default Before & after bike ghettos

On Sep 30, 2:31 pm, Coolmaine wrote:
On Sep 30, 3:45 am, Chalo wrote:



When a motorist is permitted (or even required) to turn across the
right of way of a cyclist, conflicts inevitably arise. I believe the
best method to resolve these conflicts would be to have a clear
precedence of rights of way: peds first, then cyclists, then
motorists. There should be a presumption of fault for the cyclist in
a ped-cyclist collision, and a presumption of fault for the motorist
in a ped-car or cyclist-car collision. That would help keep people
honest and careful, and it would be ethically defensible.




That's too much common sense for most people to understand. But, for
the record, I believe that a fully implemented law or regulation of
that nature is the biggest possible boost a bike culture could be
given, far greater than building any number of bike lanes. The
agreeable and efficient bike culture of The Netherlands and Denmark
are based as much on attitudes and outlooks as on facilities.


http://groups.google.com/group/rando...e9a15e07?hl=en
  #13  
Old October 1st 10, 02:21 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc
Peter Cole[_2_]
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Posts: 4,572
Default Before & after bike ghettos

On 9/29/2010 10:45 PM, Chalo wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:

I see plenty of
motorists charging through a "stale yellow" red light, but I almost
never see one completely disregard a light that's been red for more
than a second or two. Yet I've often seen bicyclists do [this].


I often observe cyclists doing what I usually to at a red light. If
there is cross traffic, I wait. When the cross traffic clears, I go.
This limits my exposure to car traffic and often allows waiting
motorists to safely turn right without expending their feeble
computation power determining whether I will leap into their path.

When a motorist is permitted (or even required) to turn across the
right of way of a cyclist, conflicts inevitably arise. I believe the
best method to resolve these conflicts would be to have a clear
precedence of rights of way: peds first, then cyclists, then
motorists. There should be a presumption of fault for the cyclist in
a ped-cyclist collision, and a presumption of fault for the motorist
in a ped-car or cyclist-car collision. That would help keep people
honest and careful, and it would be ethically defensible.

Chalo


From:
http://transalt.org/files/newsroom/r...tive_Order.pdf

“Getting in a car, you have to understand that you’re driving this huge
thing that kills people. And then to do something stupid like put your
foot on the gas and to call it an accident? It’s just crazy. It is an
accident; you didn’t want to do it. But once you’re driving a car, you
just have to understand the consequences of what you’re doing. You’re
responsible when you’re driving. But without intent you can’t really
charge people with homicide,” says Peter Moskos, a former Police Officer
and professor of Criminal Justice at John Jay College. “Drivers should
be charged with being careless. People do careless stuff -- like talking
on their cell phone -- because they don‘t take driving seriously.
There’s lots of careless behavior while driving. The question is what
careless behavior led to someone dying. But there is always something.”

(NYC)
"During the last fifteen years, from 1994-2008, there have been only 29
indictments of drivers under the charge of Criminally Negligent
Homicide, despite thousands of cyclists and pedestrians killed during
that period. Are the current laws for prosecuting dangerous drivers
adequate? Is justice an option when a driver kills with their car?"

"In the city of New York, in the year 2007, there were 64,000 reported
crashes involving automobiles exclusively and 112 reported fatalities

In the city of New York, in the year 2007, there were 14,000 reported
crashes involving an automobile and a pedestrian or cyclist and 160
reported fatalities"

"It is a constant and unfortunate truth that District Attorneys in New
York are operating from a default perspective that only under a very
limited, narrow set of circumstances should a case be pursued when
someone is killed by a car.

They adhere to narrow interpretations of relevant case law to help guide
them in determining what a prosecutable case is, and are often unwilling
to examine the totality of the circumstances in each specific crash
which contributed to the fatality. Despite the vulnerability of road
users not incased in steel, in the case of a traffic fatality in New
York City, vulnerable users of the road are infinitely less likely to
have their killers prosecuted than any other fatality that results from
the actions of another human being."
  #14  
Old October 1st 10, 05:01 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
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Posts: 7,511
Default Before & after bike ghettos

On Sep 30, 5:31*pm, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Sep 30, 2:25*pm, Jay Beattie wrote:



On Sep 29, 9:14*pm, Frank Krygowski wrote:


On Sep 29, 11:57*pm, Jay Beattie wrote:


**The students at PSU
(which borders the dreaded bicycle chute on Broadway)...


I thought the "dreaded bicycle chute" was on the Park blocks.


Can you give more details?


It is slightly east of the Park blocks on Broadway, starting at about
SW Columbia. *Here is a picture.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/2803183...n/photostream/


That is PSU to the right, and all the students get out of class and
wander in to the bike lane, between the curb and parked cars. *This is
a light traffic period. *The cars turning right at the stop light hook
cyclists because they are hidden by the parked cars.


This is looking south on Broadway before you get to the chute.http://www.flickr.com/photos/bikepor...n/photostream/


another one further northhttp://www.flickr.com/photos/bikeportland/3840548992/in/photostream/


It's not all that long, but it was offered up as the practically
mandatory alternative to SW 5th, which got cut up by mass transit.
The bike lane on that street is like running the gauntlet.http://www.flickr.com/photos/35021226@N02/4519517836/


In that picture, note where the blue streetcar is located at a stop.
Look to the right and see how the bike lane goes up the curb and
straight in to all the people on the sidewalk migrating to the stop.
It then emerges down the curb and across where all the tracks are
turning. From above


http://www.flickr.com/photos/4791190...n/photostream/


Same deal, different street.http://www.flickr.com/photos/sfcityscape/
4997557623/ * *-- Jay Beattie.


Fixed photo link:http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesbondsv/4576631293/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/35021226@N02/4519517836/


Thanks.

I was in Portland a while ago and planned to examine those
facilities. Unfortunately, I misunderstood where they were.

- Frank Krygowski
 




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