Tell us it ain't so !

Brian Lafferty wrote:
Sandy wrote:
http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/breve...171249Dev.html

So who's blood did he use?

The inside word is Didi Senft.

Dan

Sandy wrote:
http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/breve...171249Dev.html


This is absurd.

I am not a fanboi of any particular rider, and I think that my best
conspiracy theory years are behind me, but this is going too far.
Consider the following:

1. Nobody, not even a professional rider, is stupid enough to dope at
this years Tour using a method which had proven to be so easily
detectable. Not after Tyler, not after Floyd.
2. No team is stupid enough to risk carrying around a bag of blood, or
to try to transport one into the Tour's inner circle in this time of
heightened vigilance and unannounced searches.
3. The Astana team van _was_ searched by customs agents during stage 15,
including the fridge, and nothing untoward was found. Although this is
after the alleged offense, see point 2.
4. The UCI controls the dope tests and WADA controls the labs. I'm not
saying that there is any collusion between the two, but it is well known
that the UCI and ASO are engaged in a power struggle over control of
financially lucrative aspects of the sport, and it is equally well known
that WADA has been trying to make a pariah out of cycling. What better
way for both agencies to achieve their goals than to ensure that perhaps
the most popular rider at the Tour fails a dope test during the most
high profile race in cycling. The ASO is damaged greatly, and WADA gets
another high publicity shot at cycling.

In short, this latest scandal stinks to high heaven and I firmly believe
that in this case the UCI, not Vino, should be investigated for fraud.

Dans le message de news:JPrpi.7324$XL4.2318@trndny04,
Brian Lafferty a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
Eric Boyer (Manager Cofidis) - «Je suis totalement écoeuré. J'espère
que Vinokourov n'aura pas la lâcheté de nier, qu'il nous expliquera,
qu'il nous dira qui l'a aidé, qui a participé à cette saloperie,
parce qu'il a pas pu faire ça tout seul. Vinokourov, il nous disait
qu'il ne travaillait avec le Dr Ferrari que pour des plans
d'entraînement. Il nous disait qu'il était courageux, que les
Français l'aimaient bien, qu'il était plus fort que la douleur, il
nous disaient que nous Français on ne savait pas faire, qu'on était
des fainéants, on se rend compte que c'est un gros salopard, qui à
travers ces pratiques jette encore une fois le discrédit sur le
cyclisme. C'est un coup dur de plus, j'espère qu'encore une fois on
s'en relèvera. Je ne regrette pas ce que je dis depuis plusieurs
jours, plusieurs mois. Je demande que toute l'équipe Astana quitte le
cyclisme le plus tôt possible.»
What a self-righteous prig. His big whine is that Vino called the French
do-nothings. Well, that's the major job description of salaried workers
here. In fact, there _were_ complaints by rider of doing more than 35 hours
work a week (not just training, but meetings, other stuff).

As with Landis, I'm not engaged to issue some kind of decision. That will
come, in time. It smells just as rotten whether the tests be clean or
dirty, for all riders. That, and the test results (you were paying
attention, right?).
--
Bonne route !

Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine FR

Kyle Legate wrote:
Sandy wrote:
http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/breve...171249Dev.html

This is absurd.

I am not a fanboi of any particular rider, and I think that my best
conspiracy theory years are behind me, but this is going too far.
Consider the following:

1. Nobody, not even a professional rider, is stupid enough to dope at
this years Tour using a method which had proven to be so easily
detectable. Not after Tyler, not after Floyd.
2. No team is stupid enough to risk carrying around a bag of blood, or
to try to transport one into the Tour's inner circle in this time of
heightened vigilance and unannounced searches.
3. The Astana team van _was_ searched by customs agents during stage 15,
including the fridge, and nothing untoward was found. Although this is
after the alleged offense, see point 2.
4. The UCI controls the dope tests and WADA controls the labs. I'm not
saying that there is any collusion between the two, but it is well known
that the UCI and ASO are engaged in a power struggle over control of
financially lucrative aspects of the sport, and it is equally well known
that WADA has been trying to make a pariah out of cycling. What better
way for both agencies to achieve their goals than to ensure that perhaps
the most popular rider at the Tour fails a dope test during the most
high profile race in cycling. The ASO is damaged greatly, and WADA gets
another high publicity shot at cycling.

In short, this latest scandal stinks to high heaven and I firmly believe
that in this case the UCI, not Vino, should be investigated for fraud.

You don't need bags of blood if a compatible person is present. That
would explain homologus as opposed to autologus doping. Transfusion
equipment is not that hard to bring in at night; it might even be the
same as that used for post-race re hydration (medical reading please
comment)

He is stupid to have done it. So were Tyler and Santi.

On Jul 24, 7:08 pm, Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
On Jul 24, 10:00 am, William Asher wrote:

Mark wrote:

I don't get it. If the awkward cyclingnews translations are correct,
the /entire Astana team/ has withdrawn, and apparently without any
resistance.

Even with the draconian anti-doping rules adopted this year, was there
ever a requirement that the /entire team/ of a
(not-yet-B-sample-conifirmed!) doper should withdraw?

Someone else on Astana would test positive too. They can't afford that.

It takes two to tango. Think Perez/Hamilton.

Dumbass -

Goddamm. I hope that it was the blood bag mixup.

Because if it wasn't, it means that professional bike racers are the
stupidest creatures on the face of the planet.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

Maybe they all have cavities in their brains filled with fluid.

I still cannot fathom how somebody could be so stupid.

Joseph

Dans le message de ,
Morten Reippuert Knudsen a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
William Asher wrote:

They had to withdraw the entire team because they're not sure who got
Vinokourov's blood.

They didn't pull the team on their own initiative, ASO askede them to
do so. ASO has an interrest in covering it up and avoid destroying the
carier of all the Astana riders and personell. - It's called damage
control.

Anyway, regardless of what happens now Astana is history, they won't
race next year. The cash flow from Kazackstan will stop without an
iconic kazack rider as Vinokurov.

I won't take up your spelling, but there is no Kazakh currently engaged in
the Tour de France. While Vino is ethnically Russian (from Pavlodar), I am
sure he doesn't mind being identified wrongly, given the sources of the
funding. Less than the majority of citizens of this country are Kazakh by
ethnic standard.

And while the result may occur, as you suggest, that's not how things are
done there. The government is fond of reminding one that Kazakhstan is
EURAsia.

--
Bonne route !

Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine FR

Dans le message de ,
Kyle Legate a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
Sandy wrote:
http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/breve...171249Dev.html


This is absurd.

I am not a fanboi of any particular rider, and I think that my best
conspiracy theory years are behind me, but this is going too far.
Consider the following:

1. Nobody, not even a professional rider, is stupid enough to dope at
this years Tour using a method which had proven to be so easily
detectable. Not after Tyler, not after Floyd.
2. No team is stupid enough to risk carrying around a bag of blood, or
to try to transport one into the Tour's inner circle in this time of
heightened vigilance and unannounced searches.
3. The Astana team van _was_ searched by customs agents during stage
15, including the fridge, and nothing untoward was found. Although
this is after the alleged offense, see point 2.
4. The UCI controls the dope tests and WADA controls the labs. I'm not
saying that there is any collusion between the two, but it is well
known that the UCI and ASO are engaged in a power struggle over
control of financially lucrative aspects of the sport, and it is
equally well known that WADA has been trying to make a pariah out of
cycling. What better way for both agencies to achieve their goals
than to ensure that perhaps the most popular rider at the Tour fails
a dope test during the most high profile race in cycling. The ASO is
damaged greatly, and WADA gets another high publicity shot at cycling.

In short, this latest scandal stinks to high heaven and I firmly
believe that in this case the UCI, not Vino, should be investigated
for fraud.

You shouldn't be surprised that I agree completely with your comments.
--
Bonne route !

Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine FR

Dans le message de news:U8spi.2804$b04.456@trndny06,
Brian Lafferty a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
Kyle Legate wrote:
Sandy wrote:
http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/breve...171249Dev.html

This is absurd.

I am not a fanboi of any particular rider, and I think that my best
conspiracy theory years are behind me, but this is going too far.
Consider the following:

1. Nobody, not even a professional rider, is stupid enough to dope at
this years Tour using a method which had proven to be so easily
detectable. Not after Tyler, not after Floyd.
2. No team is stupid enough to risk carrying around a bag of blood,
or to try to transport one into the Tour's inner circle in this time
of heightened vigilance and unannounced searches.
3. The Astana team van _was_ searched by customs agents during stage
15, including the fridge, and nothing untoward was found. Although
this is after the alleged offense, see point 2.
4. The UCI controls the dope tests and WADA controls the labs. I'm
not saying that there is any collusion between the two, but it is
well known that the UCI and ASO are engaged in a power struggle over
control of financially lucrative aspects of the sport, and it is
equally well known that WADA has been trying to make a pariah out of
cycling. What better way for both agencies to achieve their goals
than to ensure that perhaps the most popular rider at the Tour fails
a dope test during the most high profile race in cycling. The ASO is
damaged greatly, and WADA gets another high publicity shot at
cycling. In short, this latest scandal stinks to high heaven and I firmly
believe that in this case the UCI, not Vino, should be investigated
for fraud.

You don't need bags of blood if a compatible person is present. That
would explain homologus as opposed to autologus doping. Transfusion
equipment is not that hard to bring in at night; it might even be the
same as that used for post-race re hydration (medical reading please
comment)

He is stupid to have done it. So were Tyler and Santi.

Nothing like rushing to judgment to keep things alive. ;-)
--
Bonne route !

Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine FR

Brian Lafferty wrote:

The surge has arrived.

in message , William Asher
') wrote:

wrote:


After Floyd, can you doubt that Vino will be found positive, positive,
positive (repeat as necessary) positive?

If there were a conspiracy, it would be the other way, where positive
tests
would be covered up. What possible benefit to anyone is there in
bouncing out a guy who did something inspiring and heroic who is 23rd in
the
standings? The French lab doesn't need more publicity. The tour doesn't
get brownie points. Nobody wins in this. Astana messed up and some low-
level assistant misread the labels on some bags.

He will test positive positive positive because he is guilty guilty
guilty.
It sucks but that is professional bicycle racing. These guys can't do
what we expect them to do without doping.

I'm sorry. What is this guilty, guilty, guilty? He's been riding injured
for two ****ing weeks. What he's done is cheating - I agree it's
cheating - but it seems to me entirely understandable of someone who had
his chance of riding last year wrecked by the Puerto thing (in which he
was not accused), had that awful crash in stage 5, and has age against
him. He wasn't going to get many more bites at this cherry.

Yes, (if true - which I assume it is) it's cheating. Yes, some sanction is
needed. But he ought to be tried by a jury of his peers before being
found 'guilty, guilty, guilty' - and his peers are the other riders in the
pro peloton. They're the people who have (arguably) been cheated out of
two stage wins.

He's a flawed hero. We always knew he was. But he's still a hero, and he's
still a man who has given all of us here a tremendous amount of vicarious
enjoyment over the past few years. He's a cheat (probably). But he's a
great rider (certainly).

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
; ... of course nothing said here will be taken notice of by
; the W3C. The official place to be ignored is on www-style or
; www-html. -- George Lund