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#31
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Tomorrow's Bicycle Drive?
John B. wrote:
On Fri, 7 Jun 2019 05:52:31 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone wrote: John B. wrote: On Fri, 7 Jun 2019 11:26:25 +1000, James wrote: On 7/6/19 9:26 am, John B. wrote: On Thu, 6 Jun 2019 14:01:28 -0000 (UTC), news18 wrote: On Sun, 02 Jun 2019 16:48:57 +0700, John B. Slocomb wrote: See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9gQ1KRhesM In the narration he mentions that a 24 speed gear set, or even more, would be perfectly feasible. No wires, no cables, either. Just a rehash of old ideas. The same reasons for the failure of shaft drives will see it fail again. Of couses, as ther is electronics involved, that will introduce another pile of reasons for it to fail. Why did shaft drives fail? Complexities? I *think*, generally heavier and less efficient than a chain. Of course they could be made robust enough to be reliable, but that generally adds weight. I've only looked at one shaft drive bike, and just looking at it I didn't think that the gears or the shaft looked especially fragile given the amount of power that they would have to transmit . After all we are talking about a half horsepower power plant, or less :-) But a chain drive may be in the 98% efficiency range and I doubt that two 90 degree gear drives would be as efficient and probably cost more too. -- cheers, John B. It may only be a half a horsepower, but 100 ft-lbs of torque is easily attainable at the crank. But, I can apply 100 ft-lbs of torque with my little finger :-) In fact the average US male, who weighs 197.6 lbs, can exert a force of 110.16 ft-lbs, using a 170mm crank arm, simply by standing on the pedal. https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/320917.php -- cheers, John B. Good, so we’re in full agreement then. |
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#32
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Tomorrow's Bicycle Drive?
On Fri, 07 Jun 2019 11:38:22 +0700, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 7 Jun 2019 04:03:01 -0000 (UTC), news18 wrote: On Fri, 07 Jun 2019 06:26:59 +0700, John B. wrote: Why did shaft drives fail? Solp and flex were one. Road crap is another. Hard to maintain. I can not wait to see that drive train after a days mtn biking on wet, rainy days. Complexities? And so we have hydraulic brake systems as opposed to simply mechanical brakes, electronic shifters as opposed to simple mechanical systems, and so on. Yep, all extra points of unreliability. The real relaibility test is, can I ride it home when stuff fails. You mean like when the chain breaks or a wheel "tacos"? I've used fencing wire to fix chains. It was the first and last time I did a long tour on a new brand of chain. In any case, you can scooter it. BTDT. And I've flattened a taco wheel enough to get it rotating. No brakes though, except shoe leather. |
#33
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Tomorrow's Bicycle Drive?
On Thursday, June 6, 2019 at 9:03:05 PM UTC-7, news18 wrote:
On Fri, 07 Jun 2019 06:26:59 +0700, John B. wrote: On Thu, 6 Jun 2019 14:01:28 -0000 (UTC), news18 wrote: On Sun, 02 Jun 2019 16:48:57 +0700, John B. Slocomb wrote: See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9gQ1KRhesM In the narration he mentions that a 24 speed gear set, or even more, would be perfectly feasible. No wires, no cables, either. Just a rehash of old ideas. The same reasons for the failure of shaft drives will see it fail again. Of couses, as ther is electronics involved, that will introduce another pile of reasons for it to fail. Why did shaft drives fail? Solp and flex were one. Road crap is another. Hard to maintain. I can not wait to see that drive train after a days mtn biking on wet, rainy days. Complexities? And so we have hydraulic brake systems as opposed to simply mechanical brakes, electronic shifters as opposed to simple mechanical systems, and so on. Yep, all extra points of unreliability. The real relaibility test is, can I ride it home when stuff fails. You can ride home when electronic shifters fail, so long as you don't live at the top of a steep grade -- same with hydro brakes, so long as you don't live at the bottom of a steep grade. Something bizarre would have to occur to have both brakes fail. BTW, shaft-drive bikes get a lot of use around here. The problem is the gear-boxes refusing to shift in sub-zero C weather. https://www.wweek.com/culture/2018/0...-observations/ The Biketown bikes are incredibly heavy and slow. -- Jay Beattie. |
#34
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Tomorrow's Bicycle Drive?
On Thursday, June 6, 2019 at 4:31:13 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 6 Jun 2019 13:15:10 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: On Thursday, June 6, 2019 at 9:11:17 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Sunday, June 2, 2019 at 5:49:03 AM UTC-4, John B. Slocomb wrote: See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9gQ1KRhesM In the narration he mentions that a 24 speed gear set, or even more, would be perfectly feasible. No wires, no cables, either. -- Cheers, John B. I can just imaging what road grit when it rains will do to those exposed bearings and interface. Can we say RAPID wear? Cheers What exposed bearings? They are sealed ceramic bearings. But again, the frame must be custom built for it. So there's no way it would ever make it on the market. Custom Frame? You mean like a MTB with fore and aft suspension? That will never make it on the market? -- cheers, John B. There is a very strong purpose for full suspension in racing and people tend to copy racers. But ravers won't use drive shafts because they are inherently very lossy. Hydraulic brakes and electronic shifting are there just to increase the cost of a bike. |
#35
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Tomorrow's Bicycle Drive?
Tom Kunich writes:
On Thursday, June 6, 2019 at 4:31:13 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Thu, 6 Jun 2019 13:15:10 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: On Thursday, June 6, 2019 at 9:11:17 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Sunday, June 2, 2019 at 5:49:03 AM UTC-4, John B. Slocomb wrote: See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9gQ1KRhesM In the narration he mentions that a 24 speed gear set, or even more, would be perfectly feasible. No wires, no cables, either. -- Cheers, John B. I can just imaging what road grit when it rains will do to those exposed bearings and interface. Can we say RAPID wear? Cheers What exposed bearings? They are sealed ceramic bearings. But again, the frame must be custom built for it. So there's no way it would ever make it on the market. Custom Frame? You mean like a MTB with fore and aft suspension? That will never make it on the market? -- cheers, John B. There is a very strong purpose for full suspension in racing and people tend to copy racers. But ravers won't use drive shafts because ^^^^^^ Drive shafts are going to be right up there with glow sticks and pacifiers they are inherently very lossy. Hydraulic brakes and electronic shifting are there just to increase the cost of a bike. -- |
#36
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Tomorrow's Bicycle Drive?
On 7/6/19 11:07 pm, news18 wrote:
On Fri, 07 Jun 2019 11:38:22 +0700, John B. wrote: On Fri, 7 Jun 2019 04:03:01 -0000 (UTC), news18 wrote: On Fri, 07 Jun 2019 06:26:59 +0700, John B. wrote: Why did shaft drives fail? Solp and flex were one. Road crap is another. Hard to maintain. I can not wait to see that drive train after a days mtn biking on wet, rainy days. Complexities? And so we have hydraulic brake systems as opposed to simply mechanical brakes, electronic shifters as opposed to simple mechanical systems, and so on. Yep, all extra points of unreliability. The real relaibility test is, can I ride it home when stuff fails. You mean like when the chain breaks or a wheel "tacos"? I've used fencing wire to fix chains. It was the first and last time I did a long tour on a new brand of chain. In any case, you can scooter it. BTDT. And I've flattened a taco wheel enough to get it rotating. No brakes though, except shoe leather. In addition, if you carry a multi tool with a chain breaker in your saddle bag as I have, you can fix a broken chain in minutes. -- JS |
#37
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Tomorrow's Bicycle Drive?
On Sat, 08 Jun 2019 08:31:33 +1000, James wrote:
On 7/6/19 11:07 pm, news18 wrote: On Fri, 07 Jun 2019 11:38:22 +0700, John B. wrote: On Fri, 7 Jun 2019 04:03:01 -0000 (UTC), news18 wrote: On Fri, 07 Jun 2019 06:26:59 +0700, John B. wrote: Why did shaft drives fail? Solp and flex were one. Road crap is another. Hard to maintain. I can not wait to see that drive train after a days mtn biking on wet, rainy days. Complexities? And so we have hydraulic brake systems as opposed to simply mechanical brakes, electronic shifters as opposed to simple mechanical systems, and so on. Yep, all extra points of unreliability. The real relaibility test is, can I ride it home when stuff fails. You mean like when the chain breaks or a wheel "tacos"? I've used fencing wire to fix chains. It was the first and last time I did a long tour on a new brand of chain. In any case, you can scooter it. BTDT. And I've flattened a taco wheel enough to get it rotating. No brakes though, except shoe leather. In addition, if you carry a multi tool with a chain breaker in your saddle bag as I have, you can fix a broken chain in minutes. BTDT, that is standard practice, but this particular batch of chains managed to fall apart in multiple links. Eventually your left with no slack and very restricted gear range, if any. |
#38
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Tomorrow's Bicycle Drive?
On Fri, 07 Jun 2019 11:38:22 +0700, John B.
wrote: You mean like when the chain breaks or a wheel "tacos"? http://tacocleanse.com/one-taco-you-...-bicycle-taco/ I rode home with a broken chain once. I was amazed at how far I could get up a hill before I had to get off and push. -- Joy Beeson joy beeson at comcast dot net |
#39
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Tomorrow's Bicycle Drive?
On Fri, 7 Jun 2019 11:09:59 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote: On Thursday, June 6, 2019 at 4:31:13 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Thu, 6 Jun 2019 13:15:10 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich wrote: On Thursday, June 6, 2019 at 9:11:17 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Sunday, June 2, 2019 at 5:49:03 AM UTC-4, John B. Slocomb wrote: See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9gQ1KRhesM In the narration he mentions that a 24 speed gear set, or even more, would be perfectly feasible. No wires, no cables, either. -- Cheers, John B. I can just imaging what road grit when it rains will do to those exposed bearings and interface. Can we say RAPID wear? Cheers What exposed bearings? They are sealed ceramic bearings. But again, the frame must be custom built for it. So there's no way it would ever make it on the market. Custom Frame? You mean like a MTB with fore and aft suspension? That will never make it on the market? -- cheers, John B. There is a very strong purpose for full suspension in racing and people tend to copy racers. But ravers won't use drive shafts because they are inherently very lossy. Hydraulic brakes and electronic shifting are there just to increase the cost of a bike. But the article about this "NEW" shaft drive system says that it is 1% more efficient than a chain drive. You don't think that "racers" will want a carbon fiber bike that will likely be as light as legal and 1% more efficient? -- Cheers, John B. |
#40
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Tomorrow's Bicycle Drive?
On Friday, June 7, 2019 at 3:31:41 PM UTC-7, James wrote:
On 7/6/19 11:07 pm, news18 wrote: On Fri, 07 Jun 2019 11:38:22 +0700, John B. wrote: On Fri, 7 Jun 2019 04:03:01 -0000 (UTC), news18 wrote: On Fri, 07 Jun 2019 06:26:59 +0700, John B. wrote: Why did shaft drives fail? Solp and flex were one. Road crap is another. Hard to maintain. I can not wait to see that drive train after a days mtn biking on wet, rainy days. Complexities? And so we have hydraulic brake systems as opposed to simply mechanical brakes, electronic shifters as opposed to simple mechanical systems, and so on. Yep, all extra points of unreliability. The real relaibility test is, can I ride it home when stuff fails. You mean like when the chain breaks or a wheel "tacos"? I've used fencing wire to fix chains. It was the first and last time I did a long tour on a new brand of chain. In any case, you can scooter it. BTDT. And I've flattened a taco wheel enough to get it rotating. No brakes though, except shoe leather. In addition, if you carry a multi tool with a chain breaker in your saddle bag as I have, you can fix a broken chain in minutes. -- JS True but shaft drives made properly do not break. |
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