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Critical Mass Tunnel Freaks
In article slrnbh03nd.g00.idontreadthis@yahoobb220004112240. bbtec.net,
Baka Dasai wrote: On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 12:26:51 GMT, Buck said (and I quote): "Baka Dasai" wrote in message This is termed "corking", and is done to ensure the mass doesn't get broken up. If this offends your sense of vehicular cycling, think of the mass as a single vehicle that requires a longer-than-usual traffic light cycle to get through an intersection. Call it what you want, but it is illegal and shows the world how CMers think theat the laws don't apply to them. It's not necessarily illegal. In my home town of Sydney, Australia, velocops accompany the mass, and fully approve of the corking. I think it's important to make some distinctions he "legal" is not the same thing as "law enforcement thinks it's legal", which is not the same thing as "law enforcement is willing to go along with it." In fact, the velocops get a bit tetchy if the corking isn't being done properly as they are very concerned to ensure that cars don't enter the mass. They see it as simply a safety issue - corking makes the mass safe. I'd be curious to see any hard evidence on the safety issue. Cyclists who do ride daily as a "critical mass of one", surrounded mostly by motor vehicles, and who seem to mostly do OK, may find it hard to believe that car-bike mixtures really raise such a huge safety problems. There are also obvious safety disadvantages to being in a big crowd of densely packed probably not terribly disciplined cyclists. Probably it's not a big deal. On balance, perhaps the mass is a little safer without cars mixed in; I really have no idea. Which is why I'd be interested in evidence either way. But it seems unlikely that the difference in safety, whatever it may be, is really that huge. And I'm a little worried that bike cops who are "very concerned to ensure that cars don't enter the mass" may also discourage the reverse situation--single bicyclists commuting with mainly motor vehicle traffic. --Bruce Fields |
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Critical Mass Tunnel Freaks
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Critical Mass Tunnel Freaks
Sat, 12 Jul 2003 12:47:45 GMT,
, "Buck" j u n k m a i l @ g a l a x y c o r p . c o m wrote: Perhaps there is no proof that CM causes a backlash (and it would be difficult to prove anyway), Then why continue spewing it? Without proof, it's a myth. It's your movie. Fantasyland material you created to shift the blame for drivers' ****ty attitudes. but it has been observed, as has been posted here several times, that traffic reacts differently (and not in a positive way) after a CM ride. And I'm saying that's bulldadda. A figment of overactive imaginations on the part of persons who, without having any direct experience, decided CM is a bad thing because it doesn't conveniently fit into their world view. I gave putznutz a plausible out by suggesting he may have been reacting to a sticker or just a random self-righteous asswipe on a mission instead of suggesting, without any proof, that his behaviour was excusable because he may have at some time past been delayed by a CM ride in which I may have participated. Why couldn't his stupidity have been a reaction to some roadies blatant disregard for traffic laws when they're out training? Or maybe his panties get wadded over curb-jumping BMX riders. To zealously lay blame for the caged jerks reactions directly at the feet of CM seems to be your mission. And you seem to think it's okay to do because 'CM riders' have an identifiable look you apparently don't like. -- zk |
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Critical Mass Tunnel Freaks
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Critical Mass Tunnel Freaks
Zoot Katz wrote in message ...
Sat, 12 Jul 2003 12:47:45 GMT, , "Buck" j u n k m a i l @ g a l a x y c o r p . c o m wrote: Perhaps there is no proof that CM causes a backlash (and it would be difficult to prove anyway), Then why continue spewing it? Without proof, it's a myth. It's your movie. Fantasyland material you created to shift the blame for drivers' ****ty attitudes. It's simple. I don't like CM tactics. Period. If you claim that I have no proof of the harm CM does, then neither can you make any claims about the effectiveness of the rides. You can't have it both ways, Zoot. but it has been observed, as has been posted here several times, that traffic reacts differently (and not in a positive way) after a CM ride. And I'm saying that's bulldadda. A figment of overactive imaginations on the part of persons who, without having any direct experience, decided CM is a bad thing because it doesn't conveniently fit into their world view. Perhaps you are so accustomed to getting accosted that you cannot tell the difference the day after a CM ride. I wonder about someone who has so many stories about how bad drivers are. I have been hit by a car ONCE, yet I can only think of one time that someone has purposely accosted me on my bike and only three other really stupid moves by drivers that put me at risk. But the one attack came the day after a CM ride. I maintain the position that CM rides cannot do any good because of the tactics they use, nothing more. I gave putznutz a plausible out by suggesting he may have been reacting to a sticker or just a random self-righteous asswipe on a mission instead of suggesting, without any proof, that his behaviour was excusable because he may have at some time past been delayed by a CM ride in which I may have participated. Have you forgotten how to read? Perhaps your anger has elevated your blood pressure to the point where you cannot comprehend what you are reading. Let me put this into caps so you don't miss it: NOBODY HAS SAID THAT ANY OF THE BEHAVIORS YOU HAVE DESCRIBED ARE EXCUSABLE!!!!! Sheesh. Why is it that any time someone opposes your point of view, they are immediately viewed by you as supporting assault with an automobile? The question at hand is WHY he did it, not whether or not it was an appropriate behavior. Why couldn't his stupidity have been a reaction to some roadies blatant disregard for traffic laws when they're out training? Or maybe his panties get wadded over curb-jumping BMX riders. To zealously lay blame for the caged jerks reactions directly at the feet of CM seems to be your mission. And you seem to think it's okay to do because 'CM riders' have an identifiable look you apparently don't like. For all anyone knows, he has a deep-seated fear of cyclists and feels the need to intimidate them every chance he gets. My mission here is to point out that the tactics CM uses are objectionable to a large number of drivers as well as other cyclists. I do not suggest that every objectionable driver action is a direct result of CM actions. But I do realize that CM is more likely to get a bad reaction than a good one. Which rider is most likely to set off a moron like you describe? The rider that gathers with hundreds of others to cause a traffic jam, or the one that he passes without incident? Now as for why you are focused on the "look" of a CM cyclist, I cannot say. I have pointed out that many put on costumes for the ride. Do you deny this? In fact, I only mentioned the way CMers dress in two posts, one over two years ago. Are you afraid that everyone has you stereotyped somehow? From what I have seen and read, there is no identifiable look to a CM rider. Well, other than the guy riding in a dinosaur costume. Part of my point is that there is no way to determine who was at the last CM unless the driver recognizes the person or the bike. That's why I said maybe he recognized YOU. Any backlash that occurs from a CM ride will be aimed at any and all cyclists. In fact, it will likely be the lone cyclist on an otherwise empty road so there aren't any witnesses.... I suppose I wish that all CMers were required to wear a big flashing CM banner all the time so that the blame for the traffic jam would be placed on the right people. Are you starting to understand why I don't appreciate CM tactics? They reflect on ME although I have nothing to do with them! -Buck |
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Gastown Grand Prix Rendezvous? (Was: Critical Mass Tunnel Freaks)
Sun, 13 Jul 2003 00:14:32 -0700,
, Ryan Cousineau wrote: If anyone has any proposals, suggestions, etc. for a meeting, toss them to me. I won a gift certificate to donate to the occasion. The first $100 worth of bike fuel at Subeez Cafe (891 Homer) is on me. Pre or post race? -- zk |
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Critical Mass Tunnel Freaks
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